WILL TRIBESTAN GET ME BACK IN THE NORMAL RANGE?

Michael · Aug 28, 2009

Emeric, here are my blood levels from 29th March 2007 before starting Testosterone replacement therapy. All ranges are for the UK according to my Endo who showed me them on his PC.

Testosterone - 5.6 nmol/l (10-30)
Leutenising Hormone - 0.8 (1.3-8.3)
Follicle Stimulating Hormone - (1.2 (1.6-11)
SHBG - 3 (13-71)
IGF1 -15.6 (13-64)
Prolactin - 241 (53-360)

I was prescribed Tesrosreone Enantate 250mg/wk which I had been on up until having bloodwork taken on the 23/7/09, my T levels came back as
>52nmol/l, my Endo said that was in the supraphsiological range and I would have to reduce my shots to fortnightly but he wanted to test my levels at 6 and 10 days after my next shot first. Results after day: 6 - 33.5, day 10 - 24.2 so I only get a shot every 14 days now.
I'm hoping to give Emerics protocol a try but first I want to see if I can get my natural production back in the normal range (obviously without my Endo knowing). Should I stop my shots, start taking Tribestan, Humanofort etc., say 2 months before my next bloodwork and see if it really does work? If it does and my T levels are in the normal range, I would start my Test again at 50mg/3xwk (emeric's protocol)?
I want to do this from a health point of view!
Any input welcome but I hope you chime in Emeric.

emeric delczeg · Aug 28, 2009

Michael said:
Emeric, here are my blood levels from 29th March 2007 before starting Testosterone replacement therapy. All ranges are for the UK according to my Endo who showed me them on his PC.

Testosterone - 5.6 nmol/l (10-30)
Leutenising Hormone - 0.8 (1.3-8.3)
Follicle Stimulating Hormone - (1.2 (1.6-11)
SHBG - 3 (13-71)
IGF1 -15.6 (13-64)
Prolactin - 241 (53-360)

I was prescribed Tesrosreone Enantate 250mg/wk which I had been on up until having bloodwork taken on the 23/7/09, my T levels came back as
>52nmol/l, my Endo said that was in the supraphsiological range and I would have to reduce my shots to fortnightly but he wanted to test my levels at 6 and 10 days after my next shot first. Results after day: 6 - 33.5, day 10 - 24.2 so I only get a shot every 14 days now.
I'm hoping to give Emerics protocol a try but first I want to see if I can get my natural production back in the normal range (obviously without my Endo knowing). Should I stop my shots, start taking Tribestan, Humanofort etc., say 2 months before my next bloodwork and see if it really does work? If it does and my T levels are in the normal range, I would start my Test again at 50mg/3xwk (emeric's protocol)?
I want to do this from a health point of view!
Any input welcome but I hope you chime in Emeric.

How old are you?

efw · Aug 29, 2009

Emeric, I have always taken 3tabs daily while on my cycles and increase to 6 tabs with my pct protocol. It has always kept the boys full, and I have never had any libido issues. I still wake up with wood and I have been on since May. Am I just lucky??? Or is it the Tribestan?? 2 16 week cycles per year x 12 years

Michael · Aug 29, 2009

emeric, I'm 45.

Michael · Aug 30, 2009

Bump!

marshallmadman · Aug 30, 2009

I would stay on your HRT protocol as prescribed by your doctor. He is merely trying to get your levels within the normal range. You are way above according to that test result. I really don't think Tribestan will do what you need it to do at this point.

emeric delczeg · Aug 31, 2009

Michael said:
emeric, I'm 45.

OK, so your test level was low before taking the 250/wk, and you never take any testosterone or prohormone before?

Michael · Aug 31, 2009

for emeric

I did pro-hormones back in the nineties, in 1997 I ran my first cycle of gear and used on/off for 10yrs before being put on replacement therapy in 2007. So should I just stay on my HRT @ 250mg/fortnightly as prescribed by Doc or try Tribestan for 2 months before next bloodwork and see if it brings levels up to the normal range, if it does then i would use your protocol.
Thanks for your input.

emeric delczeg · Aug 31, 2009

Michael said:
I did pro-hormones back in the nineties, in 1997 I ran my first cycle of gear and used on/off for 10yrs before being put on replacement therapy in 2007. So should I just stay on my HRT @ 250mg/fortnightly as prescribed by Doc or try Tribestan for 2 months before next bloodwork and see if it brings levels up to the normal range, if it does then i would use your protocol.
Thanks for your input.

I will try to help you, but first I would like to know if you planing to do any competitions in the future?

Michael · Aug 31, 2009

emeric, thanks for saying you'll help, much appreciated.

Not planning to compete at all, I'm more interested in getting my T levels back in the normal range if I can. Is that possible after 2yrs on replacement therapy? Although my level of T was 5.6nmol/l (range 10-30) before therapy it shows I was still producing naturally but that was 2yrs ago. What are the chances of that still occuring? What would you suggest I do regarding all this?

steele · Aug 31, 2009

don't want to steal the thread but....

can a person recover normal test after 2 years of constant use of only test e?

-STEELE

Michael · Aug 31, 2009

That's what I'm trying to find out!

machola · Aug 31, 2009

steele said:
don't want to steal the thread but....

can a person recover normal test after 2 years of constant use of only test e?

-STEELE

yes. i posted a study here a while ago showing HPTA recovery times after a long suppression.
here's a copy of the post:

**broken link removed**

Individual variation of hormonal recovery after cessation of luteinizing hormone-releasing hormone agonist therapy in men receiving long-term medical castration for prostate cancer

Author:
Kobayashi T, Nishizawa K and Mitsumori K.

10 August 2006

The main purpose of intermittent or interrupted androgen deprivation therapy in patients with prostate cancer is temporal androgen recovery in order to delay the hormone independence of tumour cells and to improve the patient’s quality of life. However, it has been reported that in some patients who have received long-term LHRHa therapy, serum testosterone does not recover.

This study (n=10) investigated the discontinuation of long-term LHRHa (goserelin or leuprorelin) therapy (median 39 months – 30 – 56 months), on serum testosterone, luteinizing hormone (LH), follicle-stimulating hormone (FSH) and PSA. Measurements were taken before cessation of therapy and then every 4 weeks until the total testosterone level recovered to >50 ng/dl.

Scand J of Urol and Nephrol 2006; 40: 198 – 203.

The main purpose of intermittent or interrupted androgen deprivation therapy in patients with prostate cancer is temporal androgen recovery in order to delay the hormone independence of tumour cells and to improve the patient’s quality of life. However, it has been reported that in some patients who have received long-term LHRHa therapy, serum testosterone does not recover.

This study (n=10) investigated the discontinuation of long-term LHRHa (goserelin or leuprorelin) therapy (median 39 months – 30 – 56 months), on serum testosterone, luteinizing hormone (LH), follicle-stimulating hormone (FSH) and PSA. Measurements were taken before cessation of therapy and then every 4 weeks until the total testosterone level recovered to >50 ng/dl.

All patients showed recovery of serum testosterone to >50 ng/ml within 26 – 327 days (median 98 days) after LHRHa cessation. LH recovery to >1.1 mIU/ml was observed within 26 – 98 days (median 53 days) and the interval between LH and testosterone recovery in each patient ranged from 0 – 274 days (median 32.5 days). FSH recovery to >10 mIU/ml paralleled the LH recovery. An increase in PSA to twice the baseline value was observed in 9 patients within 26 – 288 days (median 90 days). The total testosterone level at which the PSA increase occurred was < 20 ng/dl in one patient, 20 – 50 ng/dl in two and >50ng/dl in four. In all nine patients, with increased PSA, the PSA level returned to baseline after the resumption of LHRHa therapy.

The variable recovery of LH and FSH following long-term LHRHa therapy suggests that this results from disuse of the gonadotrophin producing cells of the pituitary gland which for individual patients require varying times to recover. Similarly the variable recovery of testosterone strongly suggests that the testicular Leydig cells require time to recover and this again varies from patient to patient. The results also identify that the variation in time from LH and FSH recovery to testosterone recovery, greatly affects the interval between cessation of LHRHa and testosterone recovery. Non-parallel recovery of PSA and testosterone add a further degree of variability to this confusing situation.

Whilst recognising that this study involved only a small number of patients the authors identify that the results suggest that the time of androgen exposure during LHRHa off-therapy period is likely to be highly variable and much shorter than expected. In fact in some patients there may only be a very small amount of androgen exposure. The authors suggest that if intermittent therapy is used to delay the acquirement of androgen independence by temporal androgen exposure, it is important that recovery of testosterone as well as PSA should be used to determine the period of “off-therapy”.

i understand this isn't a perfect study, in that they used LHRHa to suppress LH/FSH and not AS but the overall effect(suppression) is similar. here's something interesting: LH and FSH recover quickly but testosterone takes longer to recover. even after the hypothalamus/pituitary recover it takes a while for the testes to produce testosterone normally. i think this is why people who use hCG have easier recoveries. because when you take hCG the testes never shutdown. only the hypothalamus/pituitary shutdown and they recover quickly.

thewhite9t: i think ais do speed up recovery