Winning a Chin Up Contest

[1badboy]

A co-worker asked me for some advice on how he should train for 5 weeks to win a chin up contest. This guy is by no means out of shape- he fights Muay Thai and wrestles, but chin ups have not been a part of his training, and the contest is in 5 weeks.

He currently does about 8 at a body weight of 215. He could probably drop 10 lbs but that might effect strength now. Since he's "untrained" do you think he could train say every third/fourth day on actual chin-ups (maybe do 3 sets rest-paused) and then do supporting exercises between (like biceps and pull downs).

I know there also is technique involved in this and he wants to WIN- not just use it w/ perfect form to build back.

It would be great to hear some various suggestions- maybe even from military/LE guys who may have had to do this for test purposes.

1bb

EDIT: No "super supps" please...

 

[gears]

In my humble opinion, the most profound thing he could do would be to lose weight. When I weighed 205, I could blow out some w i d e grip chin-ups, but when I started gaining weight, my ability to do chin-ups withered. I can do chins no wider than shoulder width, now...and I am markedly stronger than I was when I was just 205. I'm in the low 220's now. I talked to somebody else about this very same phenomenon a couple of years ago and it was the same for them, too.

What grip are they planning on using? I'm no chin-up aficionado, so I don't know the proper technique for the official chin-up.

 

[cachexic]

In my humble opinion, the most profound thing he could do would be to lose weight. When I weighed 205, I could blow out some w i d e grip chin-ups, but when I started gaining weight, my ability to do chin-ups withered. I can do chins no wider than shoulder width, now...and I am markedly stronger than I was when I was just 205. I'm in the low 220's now. I talked to somebody else about this very same phenomenon a couple of years ago and it was the same for them, too.

What grip are they planning on using? I'm no chin-up aficionado, so I don't know the proper technique for the official chin-up.

Man, why is this? I just don't get it. Yeah you're heavier but it's MUSCLE!!!

I've always heard that big guys can't do any wide-grip pull ups but I thought it was just a myth. Kind of like the myth that big strong bodybuilders are slow because they are heavy. Well that myth was proved wrong by that one built dude that almost beat that olympic runner or some shit, I can't recall the details. Then I also read some article that said, actually the more muscle you have not only are you faster but you are also more flexible. Which goes against the whole "bulky bodybuilder lump of shit" theory.

 

[Golgo13]

i would switch all back and bicep training to chin-ups till the contest, but upping the frequency will not do any good, he will overtrain. Also tell him to drop weight.

I am guessing this is like an office contest?

 

[ssdark1]

Man, why is this? I just don't get it. Yeah you're heavier but it's MUSCLE!!!

I've always heard that big guys can't do any wide-grip pull ups but I thought it was just a myth. Kind of like the myth that big strong bodybuilders are slow because they are heavy. Well that myth was proved wrong by that one built dude that almost beat that olympic runner or some shit, I can't recall the details. Then I also read some article that said, actually the more muscle you have not only are you faster but you are also more flexible. Which goes against the whole "bulky bodybuilder lump of shit" theory.

not sure about the flexibility or speed issue, but regarding why you cant do as many pull ups after significant muscle gain, i think alot of it has to do with the fact that much of that gain is in muscles that dont aid you in performing pullups. i mean, if you gain a couple inches on your thighs and a lil extra fat and water from bulking....thats just dead weight that you have to pull.

 

[kingpeon]

I got up to 33 in the Marines at a bodyweight of about 170 back in '93. 20 is the max you get credit for, I kept going just for shits 'n giggles. I never trained legs. I got good, if 33 is in fact good, by just doing the pull ups. The body becomes its function.

So I'd recommend the Poliquin chinning program where you do as many as possible, wait ten seconds for the lactic acid to flush out, then repeat with a different grip and so on.

Oh yeah, and lose weight in the legs so you look like a male gymnast. Those dudes do pull ups and dips all day.

 

[jalsmiley]

Man, why is this? I just don't get it. Yeah you're heavier but it's MUSCLE!!!

I've always heard that big guys can't do any wide-grip pull ups but I thought it was just a myth. Kind of like the myth that big strong bodybuilders are slow because they are heavy. Well that myth was proved wrong by that one built dude that almost beat that olympic runner or some shit, I can't recall the details. Then I also read some article that said, actually the more muscle you have not only are you faster but you are also more flexible. Which goes against the whole "bulky bodybuilder lump of shit" theory.

because think about it this way...if he is 215 and drops 10 to 15lbs...do you think he is dropping 10lbs of muscle in the part of back and bis that help with pullups...nope..probably barely a 1lb...if that...so really he is going to be 15lbs lighter and have almost the same amount of bicep n back muscle mass if drops the weight nice and slow leading up to the contest while training hard

 

[cachexic]

because think about it this way...if he is 215 and drops 10 to 15lbs...do you think he is dropping 10lbs of muscle in the part of back and bis that help with pullups...nope..probably barely a 1lb...if that...so really he is going to be 15lbs lighter and have almost the same amount of bicep n back muscle mass if drops the weight nice and slow leading up to the contest while training hard

That makes perfect sense for that one particular situation, but that still doesn't answer my question about big guys not being able to do pull ups. How come they get stronger with everything but pull ups/body weight exercises. Let's say there's no dead weight. Let's say there's a dude who is 230 and lean as fuck. Why can he only do 6 pull ups and I can do more? He's got a huge thick fucking back and softball-sized biceps...why can't he lift his own muscular, lean body more than 5-6 times?

 

[deadliver]

I have always done wide grip pullups whether I was 100lbs or 220lbs, but the way that I got up to my max pull up potential (39) was like this. start with 2, take 10-15 second rest, then do 4, rest, 6, rest, 8 etc... when you cant go any higher come back down in the same fashion. I did that every 3 days, sometimes 4 days. hope that helps your friend out. Bring a tissue or a trash can, because either crying or puking will happen if done correctly.

 

[1badboy]

Good Input- Thanks!

Thanks for all the good info guys- I knew you'd come through.

As I said- guy is a fighter, very muscular but a little overweight now due to career/move/family etc. With 5 weeks he has limited options. I will look up the Charles Peloquian (sp?) program- I figured the training would have to be specific to this exercise.

He owns a gym in a different state and his partner and him at gym have annual comp- chinups (not pull ups, so more bicep and a little "omph" or "english" as DC might say). They also spar and wrestle as part of annual comp for $$$ and bragging rights for the year.

I'll get him to join but time is of the essence right now...

 

[jalsmiley]

That makes perfect sense for that one particular situation, but that still doesn't answer my question about big guys not being able to do pull ups. How come they get stronger with everything but pull ups/body weight exercises. Let's say there's no dead weight. Let's say there's a dude who is 230 and lean as fuck. Why can he only do 6 pull ups and I can do more? He's got a huge thick fucking back and softball-sized biceps...why can't he lift his own muscular, lean body more than 5-6 times?

who is this dude! i was in gym tonight...big black dude(i say his color cause being dark skinned i could see more of his muscle cut than if pale white) he was mostly having the bloated look..the half fat half water half muscle look if you know what i mean..so he is carrying a lot of dead weight...prob weighs about 280 at least, i try and get a pic of him with phone tomorow..he has been in gym every night recently...anyway..he moved the smith machine bar to the top rung and grabbed bar and rep'd out a nice load of pullups quick and smooth reps no bucking himself up etc...so guess some dudes just can carry their weight easily...oh, he did about 15 reps easy then stopped..prob had another ten in him

 

[B~RAD]

I got up to 33 in the Marines at a bodyweight of about 170 back in '93. 20 is the max you get credit for, I kept going just for shits 'n giggles. I never trained legs. I got good, if 33 is in fact good, by just doing the pull ups. The body becomes its function.

So I'd recommend the Poliquin chinning program where you do as many as possible, wait ten seconds for the lactic acid to flush out, then repeat with a different grip and so on.

Oh yeah, and lose weight in the legs so you look like a male gymnast. Those dudes do pull ups and dips all day.

op- at the BW he's at, he's pretty much screwed just because guys like the guy I quoted (and guys like me) have a HUGE advantage. We're so light that cranking out 30+ pull ups isn't a huge deal. I'm sure he can get better at them in the amount of time. But if he were able to win it'd be only because there were no pound for pound strong guys in the contest

 

[B~RAD]

not trying to put him down either. Just saying that you really cant expect someone who weighs 215 to win a BODYWEIGHT contest with pull ups

 

[maldorf]

The bodyweight thing can be overcome with lots of work. I know when I first started doing chins, before had always done pulldowns, I could only manage my bodyweight for maybe 12 wide gripped. At the time too I only weighed about 220 lbs. Later on when I got up to an even leaner 235 lbs, I was doing my bodyweight with a 75 lb dumbell strapped to my waist for 10 reps. Just takes time and determination.

 

[maldorf]

not trying to put him down either. Just saying that you really cant expect someone who weighs 215 to win a BODYWEIGHT contest with pull ups

Naw, I think it can be done reguardless of you weight. Being lean is probably the most important factor besides your training.

 

[cachexic]

who is this dude! i was in gym tonight...big black dude(i say his color cause being dark skinned i could see more of his muscle cut than if pale white) he was mostly having the bloated look..the half fat half water half muscle look if you know what i mean..so he is carrying a lot of dead weight...prob weighs about 280 at least, i try and get a pic of him with phone tomorow..he has been in gym every night recently...anyway..he moved the smith machine bar to the top rung and grabbed bar and rep'd out a nice load of pullups quick and smooth reps no bucking himself up etc...so guess some dudes just can carry their weight easily...oh, he did about 15 reps easy then stopped..prob had another ten in him

So it is a myth, then. This guy did 15, a pretty goddamn solid number. And maldorf did 10 weighted wides.

I bet if a big guy focused really hard on pull ups he could do 30 just like a small guy.

 

[B~RAD]

Naw, I think it can be done reguardless of you weight. Being lean is probably the most important factor besides your training.

you're absolutely right. Doing 30 pullups at abw of 215 is POSSIBLE. But here are the stats... the guy can't currently manage 10 pullups. The chances of him increasing his pullups 300% in 5 wks without AAS is very slim. he has 5 wks

 

[maldorf]

you're absolutely right. Doing 30 pullups at abw of 215 is POSSIBLE. But here are the stats... the guy can't currently manage 10 pullups. The chances of him increasing his pullups 300% in 5 wks without AAS is very slim. he has 5 wks

You are right about that. I was just making the point that he isnt that weak just because he weighs 215. Some in the thread were making it sound like guys that weigh over 200 lbs dont stand a chance of being able to chin a lot of reps with bodyweight.

 

[bruno85]

When I first started learning how to do pullups, I had a pullup bar in my room and would just do a set of max reps a few times a day, on most days. It was not a regimented thing by any means, but it worked out to about 1-3 sets probably 5 days a week. Just doing them frequently helped a lot. I wasn't doing much other lifting at this time other than just pushups so I didn't have to worry about overdoing it or anything, but it worked pretty well actually.

If you want a set program to show him, I found a couple that might help. I haven't done either of them but they look pretty good.

Texas Marine Officer

The Recon Ron Pullup Program - GUARANTEED to have you doing 20 pullups - Marine Corps Community for USMC Marine Veterans

 

[SecondAct]

I have never been able to do more than 3 chins in my life. I've never been able to do more than 6 dips in my life. In HS I got to a 385 bench, could rep close grips with over 300 for 6 reps at 185lbs, and still was horrible at chins, dips, and pull-ups. I messed up my shoulder young, but not so bad that I couldn't do other power movements. I carry a lot of weight in legs, but it was always the strangest thing. I think I'm somehow deformed or am missing a ligament-lol- always has driven me crazy and has gotten a good laugh out of friends much weaker who could do them like crazy while I hung like the fat kid at the bottom of the rope climb, which I can't do either.

Your buddy should probably just drop weight, but what do i know, I can't do them. The other guy probably suckered him in on this bet. It's like arm wrestling, some guys are simply freaks at arm wrestling and it doesn't correlate to our type of strength often.