Winstrol and joints

[KillerStack]

I was reading The Guardian and an article on horse doping caught my eye.
I looked up the product used on the horses, Sungate by ACME, a stanozolol injectable used intrarticularly to regenerate joints in osteoarthritis.

You always read on forums about "winny drying out your joints" etc. Some, like Milos Sarcev, think this Winny/joint pain connection is a bunch of bullshit spread on forums. I think the joint pain increase is probably real, even though I didn't experience it myself, but what's the mechanism? In horses it increases synovial fluid and makes it more viscous, which is good.

I'm always sceptical of things, pseudoscientific things such as "prolactin/progesterone gyno" etc. I remember reading one abstract on stanozolol as a treatment for arthritis in humans years ago so I always questioned winstrol being extra detrimental to joints.

Anyways, here's the product presentation. I don't know how interesting this is to others but maybe someone has some thoughts on Winstrol and joints.

**broken link removed**

 

[richiec]

Well, my guess is that most people use winstrol when they're at low body fat, which in itself would lead to joint issues. I don't know because I've never been low bf, so maybe my guess is way off.

 

[SpecialDeliveryJones]

Winstrol gives me joint issues, it's real.

 

[Jizzmo]

from my understanding winstrol only increases some types of joint/ligament fibers, but when only one type of them grows, the sinews/joints in general become more brittle, because theyre under more tension or something like that. cant really explain it, but it made sense the way i read it... try to google that

 

[RINO]

Thanks for that and a decent thread.

 

[Aliendogstar]

It didn't when I was 19. Now that I'm in my 40's, it is without fail.

 

[ALLEX]

Doesn't winny lower estrogen and that's why it dries you up?

 

[wukillabee]

Didn't read your whole 60+ page pdf attachment but the funny thing about steroids is what is written about them on paper isn't always how it works in humans if that makes sense. I'm sure also that in the study (if there is a study from ur post) i doubt they tested bbing type dosages of winny which is 50mg+ everyday! Medically sure it might do the benefits on your chart medically, in the 5-10mg a day amount.

I know personally it dries the fuck out of me at just 50mg/ed.

 

[TheDeceiver]

It never had effect on my joint's.Maybe it has to do with dosage.I've never used high dosage.

 

[RickGrimes]

Random quote for today

"And this reduction in Estrogen/Progesterone, caused by dihydrotestosterone, reduces your body's production of anti-inflammatory and painkilling cytokines. And this is what causes Winstrol, Masteron, etc to cause Joint Pain. And as noted at the beginning of this article, when one undergoes reductions in estrogen and progesterone, bone mineral density and collagen will suffer deleterious effects.
So there we have it, finally: a plausible explanation for the contrasting effects Deca-Durabolin - nandrolone decanoate - and Winstrol have on joints."

 

[KillerStack]

As far as Winstrol and Masteron drying you out that would imply an outright diuretic effect. I don't know about that, I think all steroids cause water retention. I remember Bob Chicherillo saying that only an idiot takes any steroids the last 2 weeks before a show as all steroids cause water retention. I don't necessarily think everyone should come off completely before shows but he has a small point. I have seen it suggested that some steroids interact with the mineralcorticoid receptor in a way that can cause you to shed some water (maybe when added to a stack that causes lots of water retention?), but even if true I think all anabolic steroids cause you to hold more water.

In horses it causes an increase in synovial fluid, if the same applies in humans, which it probably does, it doesn't dry out your joints either. The dosages bodybuilders use may be higher but I doubt the effect would become the opposite due to dose, plus the horses were treated intrarticularly, presumably to achieve a higher concentration in the disease affected joint. I also don't know if one would feel it if the wrong type of collagen is built.

"the sinews/joints in general become more brittle, because theyre under more tension or something like that. cant really explain it, but it made sense the way i read it"

They become less elastic, failing easier when loaded.

Regarding that last quote I'll have to see if it can be supported by data.

A certain expert, the best ever IMO, thought Deca reduced joint pain through its effect on immunity which caused less inflammation, nothing to do with more water or joint lubrication. The Winstrol in horses actually reduced inflammation too.

 

[Green_Fjord]

i doubt they tested bbing type dosages of winny which is 50mg+ everyday!

Actually, you'd be truly amazed at what some owners are willing to give their horses to make them do well... keep in mind there's A LOT of money involved in races... in fact, 50mg stanozolol daily is a JOKE for a competitive horse... take a 300lbs elite BB and quintuple his weight... see what I mean?!?!

As far as I'm concerned, the few times I used Winstrol (up to 100mg daily), I never experienced any joint related side... but that's just me.

 

[gulfcoast]

Back in the day when Ben Johnson was setting world records before getting popped on Winny, the talk was that many runners were scared of Winny due to Achilles tendon and hamstring problems. Fact or fiction, who knows.

It makes my knees feel like they have sand in them after only a couple weeks.

 

[ripped358]

I know with all my injurys,even when using deca at high dosages everything hurts me.

 

[RickGrimes]

As far as Winstrol and Masteron drying you out that would imply an outright diuretic effect. I don't know about that, I think all steroids cause water retention. I remember Bob Chicherillo saying that only an idiot takes any steroids the last 2 weeks before a show as all steroids cause water retention. I don't necessarily think everyone should come off completely before shows but he has a small point. I have seen it suggested that some steroids interact with the mineralcorticoid receptor in a way that can cause you to shed some water (maybe when added to a stack that causes lots of water retention?), but even if true I think all anabolic steroids cause you to hold more water.

In horses it causes an increase in synovial fluid, if the same applies in humans, which it probably does, it doesn't dry out your joints either. The dosages bodybuilders use may be higher but I doubt the effect would become the opposite due to dose, plus the horses were treated intrarticularly, presumably to achieve a higher concentration in the disease affected joint. I also don't know if one would feel it if the wrong type of collagen is built.

"the sinews/joints in general become more brittle, because theyre under more tension or something like that. cant really explain it, but it made sense the way i read it"

They become less elastic, failing easier when loaded.

Regarding that last quote I'll have to see if it can be supported by data.

A certain expert, the best ever IMO, thought Deca reduced joint pain through its effect on immunity which caused less inflammation, nothing to do with more water or joint lubrication. The Winstrol in horses actually reduced inflammation too.

Don't think you can have it both ways?

"Synovitis is the inflammation of a synovial (joint-lining) membrane, usually painful, particularly on motion, and characterized by swelling, due to effusion (fluid collection) in a synovial sac. Synovitis is a major problem in rheumatoid arthritis, in juvenile arthritis, in lupus, and in psoriatic arthritis. It may also be associated with rheumatic fever, tuberculosis, trauma, or gout."

 

[jackedcarpenter]

I had noticeable joint discomfort and cracking sounds when lifting when I used it. Epistane did the same, though not as pronounced

 

[KillerStack]

Back in the day when Ben Johnson was setting world records before getting popped on Winny, the talk was that many runners were scared of Winny due to Achilles tendon and hamstring problems. Fact or fiction, who knows.

It makes my knees feel like they have sand in them after only a couple weeks.

According to Ben's trainer he never knowingly took Winstrol. He got a hold of a fake, it was supposed to be a steroid not on the list. It was also a water suspension.

Ben used Dianabol mostly.

 

[KillerStack]

I know with all my injurys,even when using deca at high dosages everything hurts me.

I'm the king of injuries, no steroid ever helped. One training partner
has some severe joint issues so he wanted to try deca (he's juice newbie). He was in worse pain than ever with the deca lol. "Deca for joints my ass"

 

[SpecialDeliveryJones]

I read an interview with that trainer of Ben Johnson. Ben was supposed to stop the winstrol at a certain date...but got carries away with the results and just kept on cycling up to the Olympics.

 

[RickGrimes]

I read an interview with that trainer of Ben Johnson. Ben was supposed to stop the winstrol at a certain date...but got carries away with the results and just kept on cycling up to the Olympics.

Ben admitted to taking furazabol, which was not a banned by name substance at the time. Carl Lewis's friend supposedly spiked Ben's after race drink with winny. Reportedly the levels of winny were way to high for someone competing. I think Conte has talked about this.