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Worst compounds for lipid health?

Landmonster

Member
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Aug 5, 2007
Messages
977
Hey Guys.

I'm wondering if anyone had any specific knowledge of which compounds were the worst for your HDL and LDL. I'd like for this to be based on real world blood work, or controlled studies or examples.

I know, the standard advice given is, "avoid Tren and orals if you care about health".

Can we break that down a bit further?


1) Of all the compounds that bodybuilder use (injectables, orals, ancillaries, etc)... which is the most harmful to lipid health?

2) Have you seen any surprising compounds that trash lipids? (Compounds that would otherwise seem mild or side-effect-free)

3) Which orals are known to harm lipids the most? (or the least)

4) Does Trenbolone harm lipids as much as orals? Or less so?


Bonus: How much does dosing play a role in this effect?
 
orals (especially anavar and winstrol), tren, adex, letro...probably masteron



higher the dose = more side effects





4) Does Trenbolone harm lipids as much as orals? Or less so?

who knows? probably... they both do harm to lipids so why does it matter lmao
 
orals (especially anavar and winstrol), tren, adex, letro...probably masteron



4) Does Trenbolone harm lipids as much as orals? Or less so?

who knows? probably... they both do harm to lipids so why does it matter lmao

It could actually play a role, if you were being strategic with health.

It may not matter for an elite bodybuilding show, because you'd use everything your arsenal to look your best.

However, let's say you were prepping for an event, or beach vacation, or something that's not vitally important... but wanted to use a standard cutting/hardening cycle with the least impact on your health.

You could use (alongside some Test):
A) 300-400 Tren a week.... or
B) 200 Tren + low-dose Anavar or Winstrol... or
C) 0 tren, and heavy Anavar or other oral use.

That's kind of what I'm getting at.


I would like to understand which compounds are most harmful, and which ones are less harmful... and if there are any "hidden" compounds which might be thought of as mild, but are actually pretty damaging.

It would just be good knowledge to have, and file away.
 
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I don't think ai's are as bad for cholesterol as people think. I was taking 1 mg arimidex daily at the beginning of a cycle and hdl was 46 about 6 weeks in i got gyno and used 2.5mg letro daily to get rid of it and tanked my estrogen, sore joints, zero libido. Anyway, got blood work right at the end and hdl was 42. No orals were used.
 
orals (especially anavar and winstrol), tren, adex, letro...probably masteron



higher the dose = more side effects





4) Does Trenbolone harm lipids as much as orals? Or less so?

who knows? probably... they both do harm to lipids so why does it matter lmao

Anavar yes but my lipids were normal after 5 months of 100mg winstrol and 50mg tbol.
 
Progestins can play havoc on the functionality of lipoproteins, particularly HDL.
 
Progestins have been repeatedly shown to increase serum copper levels via hepatic activation of a cation transporter called ceruloplasmin. When excessive copper binds to lipoproteins. This initiates proxidative effects on lipoproteins. Ultimately, dysfunctional lipoproteins.
 
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Little slice makes a good point, AI can wreak havoc on triglycerides. Tamoxifen caused a family members Triglycerides to go over 4000!! He almost lost his pancreas. 3 weeks in the hospital, they did dialysis to remove the fat from his blood. There were bags of what looked like gravy!! Of course, if he has done blood work every 6-8 weeks he would have avoided it.
Key is regular blood work, especially if you're older.
 
I don't think ai's are as bad for cholesterol as people think. I was taking 1 mg arimidex daily at the beginning of a cycle and hdl was 46 about 6 weeks in i got gyno and used 2.5mg letro daily to get rid of it and tanked my estrogen, sore joints, zero libido. Anyway, got blood work right at the end and hdl was 42. No orals were used.

I'm curious about how you got gyno on 1mg of Arimidex daily?
 
Little slice makes a good point, AI can wreak havoc on triglycerides. Tamoxifen caused a family members Triglycerides to go over 4000!! He almost lost his pancreas. 3 weeks in the hospital, they did dialysis to remove the fat from his blood. There were bags of what looked like gravy!! Of course, if he has done blood work every 6-8 weeks he would have avoided it.
Key is regular blood work, especially if you're older.

I'd never heard of Nolvadex increasing triglycerides that much.

What dose was he taking? Is that common?


My biggest fear about Nolvadex was that it decreased IGF-1 levels supposedly. I had only read good things about its effects on cholesterol.
 
If Stewie, or anyone could explain a little more in layman's terms maybe rather than expand more scientifically on the original comment about progestins.....I basically comprehended that progestins= bad for HDL, but the more detailed explaination lost me further.....NPP has become kind of my go to anabolic to add to my TRT, as I can grow on it well, I can cut with it if needed, it's not 17aa it's mild on my hair, and doesn't bloat me very much, so I've got plenty of it. I do remember that thread where some study said it was like 10x as damaging to vascular tissue, but it's also been used and studied much more and longer in medical practice than most anabolics...
 
I'm curious about how you got gyno on 1mg of Arimidex daily?

Went to a gram of test for the first time (750 test c plus TNE pre workout) 600mg npp, and 600mg eq plus lots of peptides. I aromatise badly and need letro for higher cycles. I can't even look at dbol without getting gyno. I would say 90% of people are fine on a low dose arimidex protocol but if you overaromatize then your fucked.
 
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If Stewie, or anyone could explain a little more in layman's terms maybe rather than expand more scientifically on the original comment about progestins.....I basically comprehended that progestins= bad for HDL, but the more detailed explaination lost me further.....NPP has become kind of my go to anabolic to add to my TRT, as I can grow on it well, I can cut with it if needed, it's not 17aa it's mild on my hair, and doesn't bloat me very much, so I've got plenty of it. I do remember that thread where some study said it was like 10x as damaging to vascular tissue, but it's also been used and studied much more and longer in medical practice than most anabolics...

I understand it can be overwhelming and confusing trying to digest information that makes no sense if one has no interest with certain topics.

I'll try to explain it a little simpler. Progestins depending on their structure act either as an antiandrogen or have androgenic properties. Some stronger than other's dependent of their desired effect.

Your concerns are of the literature floating around showing nandrolones adverse effects on the vascular system. Simply put, what the researchers concluded is both testosterone and nandrolone increase blood levels of what's called a cation Ca2+ (calcium [which is a variety of minerals, e.g., copper, iron, calcium, ect, that create a charge]). When this action (calcium) is in abundance in blood-circulation, this in turn causes vasoconstriction. Occasionally not a bad thing. Long-term chronic vasoconstriction damages several systems in the vascular system. One namely, endothelial cells. This is where a calcium channel blocker "may" mitigate this action? Do I have facts to support this? No I don't, tho this makes logical sense according to the given literature.

The aforementioned is just one purposed detriments of not only testosterone, accordingly nandrolone exerts a more pronounced effect. To the best of my knowledge, this is the only study of its kind. Validation lies somewhere in between.

Taken together with my previous suggestive findings, this now creates an environment for that of HDL to possibly lose its protective effects on reverse cholesterol transport, antioxidant properties and possibly the involvement of atherosclerosis.

Hopefully you can understand this a bit more clearly?
 
Letrozol and arimadex hands down tank my HDL faster than anything and dramatic increase in liver values.
 
orals (especially anavar and winstrol), tren, adex, letro...probably masteron



higher the dose = more side effects





4) Does Trenbolone harm lipids as much as orals? Or less so?

who knows? probably... they both do harm to lipids so why does it matter lmao

Tren knocked my cholesterol up 40 points. LDL was horrendous. Was heart attack waiting to happen. Wont touch it anymore.
 
Stewie, thanks brother! I started with an anti-aging doc this past year and have been tracking my bloods more and trying to learn. Appreciate it!
 

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