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WSJ article how CIA is tracking overseas money transfers

Silencer

FOUNDING Member
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Joined
Jun 5, 2002
Messages
198
Not surprising, and always figured I was in a database somewhere (multiple customs letters anyone??? :D ) but if you are sending multiple amounts of large transfers overseas, something to be aware of. Western Union, Moneygram, and several others were listed by name:


The Central Intelligence Agency is building a vast database of international money transfers that includes millions of Americans' financial and personal data, officials familiar with the program say.


The program, which collects information from U.S. money-transfer companies including Western Union is carried out under the same provision of the Patriot Act that enables the National Security Agency to collect nearly all American phone records, the officials said. Like the NSA program, the mass collection of financial transactions is authorized by a secret national-security court, the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court.

The CIA, as a foreign-intelligence agency, is barred from targeting Americans in its intelligence collection. But it can conduct domestic operations for foreign intelligence purposes. The CIA program is meant to fill what U.S. officials see as an important gap in their ability to track terrorist financing world-wide, current and former U.S. officials said.

The program serves as the latest example of blurred lines between foreign and domestic intelligence as technology globalizes many activities carried out by citizens and terrorists alike. The CIA program also demonstrates how other U.S. spy agencies, aside from the NSA, are using the same legal authority to collect data such as details of financial transactions.

In this case, the secret surveillance court has authorized the Federal Bureau of Investigation to work with the CIA to collect large amounts of data on international transactions, including those of Americans, as part of the agency's terrorism investigations.

The data collected by the CIA doesn't include any transactions that are solely domestic, and the majority of records collected are solely foreign, but they include those to and from the U.S., as well. In some cases, it does include data beyond basic financial records, such as U.S. Social Security numbers, which can be used to tie the financial activity to a specific person. That has raised concerns among some lawmakers who learned about the program this summer, according to officials briefed on the matter.

Former U.S. government officials familiar with the program said it has been useful in discovering terrorist relationships and financial patterns. If a CIA analyst searches the data and discovers possible suspicious terrorist activity in the U.S., the analyst provides that information to the FBI, a former official said.

The CIA declined to comment on specific programs but said its operations comply with the law and face oversight from Congress, the FISA Court and internal watchdogs. "The CIA protects the nation and upholds the privacy rights of Americans by ensuring that its intelligence-collection activities are focused on acquiring foreign intelligence and counterintelligence in accordance with U.S. laws," said agency spokesman Dean Boyd.

The FBI declined to comment.
 
I always use smaller amounts and order more often.
 
Do you have a source for the article ? It sounds like there are some things wrong with it. I am sure the government is tracking a lot of people. That article sounds a little sensationalistic the way it's presented. Our government watching us is nothing new.
 
Not surprising, and always figured I was in a database somewhere (multiple customs letters anyone??? :D ) but if you are sending multiple amounts of large transfers overseas, something to be aware of. Western Union, Moneygram, and several others were listed by name:


The Central Intelligence Agency is building a vast database of international money transfers that includes millions of Americans' financial and personal data, officials familiar with the program say.


The program, which collects information from U.S. money-transfer companies including Western Union is carried out under the same provision of the Patriot Act that enables the National Security Agency to collect nearly all American phone records, the officials said. Like the NSA program, the mass collection of financial transactions is authorized by a secret national-security court, the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court.

The CIA, as a foreign-intelligence agency, is barred from targeting Americans in its intelligence collection. But it can conduct domestic operations for foreign intelligence purposes. The CIA program is meant to fill what U.S. officials see as an important gap in their ability to track terrorist financing world-wide, current and former U.S. officials said.

The program serves as the latest example of blurred lines between foreign and domestic intelligence as technology globalizes many activities carried out by citizens and terrorists alike. The CIA program also demonstrates how other U.S. spy agencies, aside from the NSA, are using the same legal authority to collect data such as details of financial transactions.

In this case, the secret surveillance court has authorized the Federal Bureau of Investigation to work with the CIA to collect large amounts of data on international transactions, including those of Americans, as part of the agency's terrorism investigations.

The data collected by the CIA doesn't include any transactions that are solely domestic, and the majority of records collected are solely foreign, but they include those to and from the U.S., as well. In some cases, it does include data beyond basic financial records, such as U.S. Social Security numbers, which can be used to tie the financial activity to a specific person. That has raised concerns among some lawmakers who learned about the program this summer, according to officials briefed on the matter.

Former U.S. government officials familiar with the program said it has been useful in discovering terrorist relationships and financial patterns. If a CIA analyst searches the data and discovers possible suspicious terrorist activity in the U.S., the analyst provides that information to the FBI, a former official said.

The CIA declined to comment on specific programs but said its operations comply with the law and face oversight from Congress, the FISA Court and internal watchdogs. "The CIA protects the nation and upholds the privacy rights of Americans by ensuring that its intelligence-collection activities are focused on acquiring foreign intelligence and counterintelligence in accordance with U.S. laws," said agency spokesman Dean Boyd.

The FBI declined to comment.

the information will not be used to indict a tree surgeon from Birmingham for three counts of money laundering, conspiracy, etc.

yes its disturbing but again, its for the BIG fish.
now leave me along that Maple has a dead leaf that is just driving me crazy
 
Do you have a source for the article ? It sounds like there are some things wrong with it. I am sure the government is tracking a lot of people. That article sounds a little sensationalistic the way it's presented. Our government watching us is nothing new.

Sorry Meterman - should have been more clear. Was on front page of the Wall Street Journal (hence the WSJ). My bad.

Do agree that small amounts don't matter. But having been in this game long enough, know that some of us tend to order in bulk, for friends, or for extra cash. I'd guess $1k or more multiple times per year might at least peak some interest. Perhaps not. Just posting it to inform people and as always, everyone be careful. Too easy to become complacent...
 
the last i heard of guys getting busted in this arena was using W.U to send several hundred thousand dollars, it was a thread here on this forum as well as 2 others but its 230 am nd I'm not going to look for it . my opinion this has no bearing to the solo or team of end user category we tend to fall into. its like anything else, if you start climbing the ladder your easier to spot.
 
If your an end user you probably have nothing to worry about. If your a source for AS or peptide/research chem than Operation Raw Deal 2 is coming soon.
 
ehh why the fuck would CIA go after a bunch of useless bodybuilders lool !

Man some of you guys are paranoids as fuck
 
If your an end user you probably have nothing to worry about. If your a source for AS or peptide/research chem than Operation Raw Deal 2 is coming soon.

LOL even that they wouldn't come after you

The type of people CIA deals with is on a totally different level.. Terrorist, huge drug lords and ... HAHAHAAHA not a peptide buyer or even a source of AAS

DEA and U.S marshals go after those, rarely !!!
 
Def nothing for anyone on here to worry about. Big time to the CIA is in millions, at minimum. Plus as an American, I know better then to order injectables from middle eastern countries who hate the USA.
 
dont you use different info when you send WU each time? and its being sent to different people
 
this thread probably needs to be deleted...
thats being said using different names etc. for doing this just arouses suspicion.if you doubt me your delusional.
change and being inconsistent can cause problems.many people who use these methods use all there real info like its a normal transaction.shady behavior is spotted in time.
 
how would they know who is really sending the money?
 
there is a major concern because one day soon if not already when joe q meathead is tagged for something- anything his can his name can be typed into a LE server of some sort and every single email, WU transaction, mail data base anything EVER.phone records ... facebook posts all can be retrievable in seconds. Now with that ease and power do you think being just an end user is safe anymore?

its just a matter of time
 
LOL even that they wouldn't come after you

The type of people CIA deals with is on a totally different level.. Terrorist, huge drug lords and ... HAHAHAAHA not a peptide buyer or even a source of AAS

DEA and U.S marshals go after those, rarely !!!

But the measure, tucked into the intelligence authorization bill and adopted this week without any public hearings, has sparked concern among civil libertarians and defense lawyers. They say CIA involvement in collecting evidence against international criminals will introduce a new level of secrecy into American trials.

Some worry that intelligence information collected overseas by CIA operators through break-ins, unauthorized wiretaps, and strong-arm interrogations may ultimately be used as evidence in US courts.

Under the new provision, the CIA is now empowered to collect evidence outside the US against foreigners suspected of violating US criminal laws. CIA involvement is triggered by a request from the FBI or other US law-enforcement agencies.

The CIA is barred from collecting evidence relating to anyone who is a US citizen or a US resident. But legal experts say the law permits an important exception to this rule. If information implicating an American in a crime is obtained while targeting a foreign suspect, that evidence could be used in an American court against the US citizen - even if the evidence was obtained via methods that are illegal by US standards.

The new law "does not require the CIA to act within the law," says Kate Martin, director of the Center for National Security Studies, a civil liberties advocacy group in Washington.

"It is one thing for the US to send its spies to collect information on foreigners in whatever way it can, to be used by the president, the State and Defense Departments in making and carrying out foreign policy," Ms. Martin says. "It is quite different for the US to announce that the recently opened FBI offices in foreign countries are authorized to task the CIA to illegally spy on foreign citizens so that the US government can use that information to arrest and prosecute them."
 
there is a major concern because one day soon if not already when joe q meathead is tagged for something- anything his can his name can be typed into a LE server of some sort and every single email, WU transaction, mail data base anything EVER.phone records ... facebook posts all can be retrievable in seconds. Now with that ease and power do you think being just an end user is safe anymore?

its just a matter of time

There would not be enough jail space to put us all in.
 
there is a major concern because one day soon if not already when joe q meathead is tagged for something- anything his can his name can be typed into a LE server of some sort and every single email, WU transaction, mail data base anything EVER.phone records ... facebook posts all can be retrievable in seconds. Now with that ease and power do you think being just an end user is safe anymore?

its just a matter of time

Exactly, up till snowden disclosed his info, it was believed the gov hadn't developed the capabilities to do what we now know they can do... FISA, and congressional oversight, that's a joke, FISA signs off on anything and congress only knows what they are told.
There have been several cases already where information has been used to go after much less than a "drug lord", as for millions of dollars, what terrorist org is moving that much into or out of the US? They use independent self sufficient cells, that can operate with limited outside contact. None of the NSA, DEA, FBI data mining operations are designed to stop that method of operation.. 9 11 did not require millions of dollars to fund...

This is just another data mining operation that "incidentally" collects the private information of US citizens. Phone records and content, emails, txts, everything you do on the Internet, banking info etc.

With pattern recognition and prediction software they will essentially know all there is about you.
Already, if you use a throwaway phone as soon as you make one then two then three calls you build that phone web back and they now know your new number.

Then top it off with a GPS tracker on your vehicle (for safety).
 
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