Your favourite carb cycling method for fat loss

[ChickenRiceRepeat]

What is your favourite carb cycling method for fat loss? How do you structure things?

I like to do it like this:

Please note this is how I diet myself and is just one of the many options I will use with clients depending on many, many individual factors. I am not married to this approach.

Baseline days (medium days) are roughly 1.5g protein per lb rounded down but only counting direct sources, 2g carbs per ib, and about 25g added fats daily which puts me around 45-50g fats including indirect sources.

Low days are for rest days mainly and are the same as baseline medium days, except I do about 10-20g more added fats, and I take the carbs down to about 150g and get them all from fruits and vegetables.

High day is once per week. Protein is brought down to 1g per lb fron direct sources. I start at the same carb intake or close to my off season high days, about 4.5g per lb. I do no added fats and try to minimize fats as much as possible, this is the only day I’m using insulin and I’m using humalog with each meal.

This came out as follows for me - this is the macros at the start of this fat loss phase, I started at 215

Macros are counted as follows: direct protein sources only, all carbs counted, and added fats counted only

Low days: 300g protein, 150g carbs, 40g fats
Medium days: 300g protein, 400g carbs, 30g fats
High day: 210g protein, 900g carbs, 0g fats

Schedule is as follows:

Monday - rest day, low day
Tuesday - training day, medium day
Wednesday - training day, medium day
Thursday - rest day, low day
Friday - training day, medium day
Saturday - training day, low day
Sunday - training day, high day

Saturday is my only training day and low day as I want glycogen depleted maximally for my high day. When a low day falls in a training day, the carbs are not only fruits and veg as my other low days are, and I add an extra 50g carbs as well.

When done properly, a diet structured like this leads to the high day actually increases in calories as the diet progresses, sometimes to the point a second high day is required once very lean.

The calories on the medium and low days decrease over time. Once carbs get to 150g or lower on any given off day, it’s veg and fruit only.

I am sure to include at least 2 servings of fruit and 2 servings of veg every day (1 serving to me is 85g) except on high days, where I skip the veg.

Carb sources are kept to traditions bodybulding “clean” foods except on high days I intentionally select high carb low fat processed carb sources to be able to get in the carbs I need and maximize the benefits of the insulin.

I’m using about 45 units with my 900g carbs. If I use my bg monitor and see my bg is above 80 before meals, I will start increasing the insulin dosage, or I basically increase insulin as much as my body allows me without going hypo to maximize storage on this day. I don’t worry about insulin sensitivity as 1. I’m in a deficit 6 days a week and 2. I’m only using insulin 1 day per week.

This style diet is similar to how I bulk, I’m happy to share my favoured massing diet as well if anyone is interested

 

[Spiro]

I just have training day and rest day diet, i dont like low,medium,high days, its easier to prep all my meals that way etc...
Typically will have 2:1 ratio, like right now on a bulk i have around 800 carbs on training days and 400 carbs on rest days, as i will go into diet i will start reducing from both days...

 

[ChickenRiceRepeat]

I just have training day and rest day diet, i dont like low,medium,high days, its easier to prep all my meals that way etc...
Typically will have 2:1 ratio, like right now on a bulk i have around 800 carbs on training days and 400 carbs on rest days, as i will go into diet i will start reducing from both days...

Nice! Is your rest day with 400 carbs a slight deficit, around maintenance, or still a surplus?

 

[Duke309]

I never saw much benefit running a high day like this is during a gaining phase, have you?

 

[ChickenRiceRepeat]

I never saw much benefit running a high day like this is during a gaining phase, have you?

Well there is a whole structure that goes along with it - it’s basically Justin Haris’s method.

It involves typically 2 very high days a week with large insulin use on those days only, a small to moderate surplus 3 days a week, and 2 days in a light deficit even at peak mass.

If you’re in a surplus every day then I agree, there likely is not any benefit from ramping calories super high 2 days a week.

The idea is depleting glycogen to some degree and supercimpensating glycogen storage and at the same time helping build your metabolism.

The low days you would take carbs very low, perhaps under 200, but youd increase fats to the slightly high side of moderate, perhaps in the 75 ish range.

A real rough example could be something like :

Low days: 300p, 250c, 80f
Medium days: 300p, 600c, 50f
High days: 200p, 1000c, 0 added fats + higher doses humalog and times on important bodypart days

That’s a really rough example I just whipped up to illustrate the principle, not necessarily an exact macro split I would endorse per se. I’m happy to provide a more concise example if you’re really interested when I have more time.

 

[hogan87]

geez so much #`s planning, so complicated. I`ll do 6 days low, protein, veg and trace carbs. Sunday, eat anything but not till bloated stuffed, mostly carbs. Monday morning my muscles are full, I`m happy, ready to grind out another week. Real simple, effective and gets me down to 8% bf without losing muscle. I don`t ever count macros or kcal!

 

[anarchocapitalist]

Honest question, do you clients really follow something so complicated?

 

[anarchocapitalist]

I've used humalog a couple times in the past. When I'm cutting I'll have a couple high carb meals per week. I don't plan anything, it really depends on how busy my day is. I don't weigh my food. I just shoot 10iu of humalog and stuff my face for an hour or two. Perhaps if I made money off my physique I'd put more mental effort into a strategy but it probably wouldn't result in anything significant.

 

[naps_for_gains]

Well there is a whole structure that goes along with it - it’s basically Justin Haris’s method.

It involves typically 2 very high days a week with large insulin use on those days only, a small to moderate surplus 3 days a week, and 2 days in a light deficit even at peak mass.

I'm doing something similar to this now and loving it. Helps with staying lean while still putting on significant size in a growth phase.

 

[qbkilla]

I had a coach back around 2010...did the high, medium, and low. When I did it myself I'd just do high on training days, low on off days. I feel 3 different types of days is complication it too much. Now I do same food and calorie daily enjoy it much better. I am not a massive bodybuilder or getting ready for a contest so for me personally I don't think there is a benefit to carb cycling. Maybe if I had a lagging part or used insulin or ate higher calories. I to try and drop protein a little on leg day to Jam some more carbs in there

 

[ChickenRiceRepeat]

I've used humalog a couple times in the past. When I'm cutting I'll have a couple high carb meals per week. I don't plan anything, it really depends on how busy my day is. I don't weigh my food. I just shoot 10iu of humalog and stuff my face for an hour or two. Perhaps if I made money off my physique I'd put more mental effort into a strategy but it probably wouldn't result in anything significant.

To answer your previous question, no, my
Clients don’t follow anything quite that structured because they aren’t competitors. I haven’t been coaching for too long and am thinking about my first show currently so I’m not comfortable coaching competitors at this stage.

I’m surprised to hear you say that you think a more structured approach wouldnt result in anything signifigant.

In my experience, the switch from just eating a lot to grow or eating less to cut with clean food to a structured plan that truly pulls out all the stops absolutely revolutionized my process and progress.

I guess the thing is, I love this lifestyle do it doesnt feel like work to me to do these things. It’s a passion project before an income stream, always.

 

[Duke309]

Well there is a whole structure that goes along with it - it’s basically Justin Haris’s method.

It involves typically 2 very high days a week with large insulin use on those days only, a small to moderate surplus 3 days a week, and 2 days in a light deficit even at peak mass.

If you’re in a surplus every day then I agree, there likely is not any benefit from ramping calories super high 2 days a week.

The idea is depleting glycogen to some degree and supercimpensating glycogen storage and at the same time helping build your metabolism.

The low days you would take carbs very low, perhaps under 200, but youd increase fats to the slightly high side of moderate, perhaps in the 75 ish range.

A real rough example could be something like :

Low days: 300p, 250c, 80f
Medium days: 300p, 600c, 50f
High days: 200p, 1000c, 0 added fats + higher doses humalog and times on important bodypart days

That’s a really rough example I just whipped up to illustrate the principle, not necessarily an exact macro split I would endorse per se. I’m happy to provide a more concise example if you’re really interested when I have more time.

Yeah I'm very familiar with Justin's methods. I only ran one high day last gain phase and couldn't really see the benefit from it. Cutting is the exact opposite,very useful.

 

[OldManLogan]

My coach is Paul Barnett, and he has me doing Justin’s carb cycling diet. So one high day a week, medium on training days, low on rest/recovery days. Honestly once you understand the basics it’s not that difficult to follow, the magic to me (and where the coach definitely comes in) is in figuring out the macros, acceptable foods list, and dealing with the little things life throws at you.
For context I’m just an amateur competitor doing this for fun with my kid (even though we take it as seriously as if we were trying to get our pro cards, lol).

 

[Brock456]

My coach is Paul Barnett, and he has me doing Justin’s carb cycling diet. So one high day a week, medium on training days, low on rest/recovery days. Honestly once you understand the basics it’s not that difficult to follow, the magic to me (and where the coach definitely comes in) is in figuring out the macros, acceptable foods list, and dealing with the little things life throws at you.
For context I’m just an amateur competitor doing this for fun with my kid (even though we take it as seriously as if we were trying to get our pro cards, lol).

Just curious why you picked Paul over Justin? From what I understand Paul is a little more expensive than Justin for basically the same info. (Paul learned everything from Justin) I think Paul helps with workout structure though? And Justin doesn’t….

 

[OldManLogan]

Just curious why you picked Paul over Justin? From what I understand Paul is a little more expensive than Justin for basically the same info. (Paul learned everything from Justin) I think Paul helps with workout structure though? And Justin doesn’t….

Paul and I became friends first working in podcasting together, and when my son and I decided to pursue this, he offered his assistance. He’s quite possibly the nicest person I’ve met on the social media space, and I’m glad to follow his advice for myself and my son.

 

[Sectør]

I respect the effort you’ve put into your posts. A lot of people join then just start spamming 3 word responses to get their 50 post count

Carb cycling is definitely effective, and there seems to be a lot of successful ways to approach it

For me—I don’t really like yo-yo-ing around with my calories too much. I try to eat the
the same thing everyday, just keeps the tracking simple

Leg days I’ll add 200g or so extra carbs because they’re a big focus point for me so even if I’m cutting I don’t mind a mild surplus on this day, then the other days I’ll just stay at a 300-400 calorie deficit

My protein and fats usually stay relatively the same if I’m bulking or cutting, then I’ll just add or pull carbs depending on which way I want the scale to move

 

[ChickenRiceRepeat]

I'm doing something similar to this now and loving it. Helps with staying lean while still putting on significant size in a growth phase.

I respect the effort you’ve put into your posts. A lot of people join then just start spamming 3 word responses to get their 50 post count

Carb cycling is definitely effective, and there seems to be a lot of successful ways to approach it

For me—I don’t really like yo-yo-ing around with my calories too much. I try to eat the
the same thing everyday, just keeps the tracking simple

Leg days I’ll add 200g or so extra carbs because they’re a big focus point for me so even if I’m cutting I don’t mind a mild surplus on this day, then the other days I’ll just stay at a 300-400 calorie deficit

My protein and fats usually stay relatively the same if I’m bulking or cutting, then I’ll just add or pull carbs depending on which way I want the scale to move

Thanks for saying that - I actually wasn’t aware there was a race to 50 posts lol.

I get what you mean about preferring the simplicity of less yo-yo-ing. I came to carb cycling like this alnost out of necessity, I wasn’t happy with my results beforehand.

 

[ChickenRiceRepeat]

Paul and I became friends first working in podcasting together, and when my son and I decided to pursue this, he offered his assistance. He’s quite possibly the nicest person I’ve met on the social media space, and I’m glad to follow his advice for myself and my son.

Paul is a gem for sure and one of the guys I would consider for coaching when I do my first prep. I feel like the idea that a coach shouldn’t have a coach is wild, but I would need to find someone who allows me to collaborate and doesn’t mine facilitating my understanding of their process.

Another potential reason thay Paul may make more sense than Justin is wait list times and the potential for Paul to devote more attention as he likely has less clients

 

[snuklov]

What is your favourite carb cycling method for fat loss? How do you structure things?

I like to do it like this:

Please note this is how I diet myself and is just one of the many options I will use with clients depending on many, many individual factors. I am not married to this approach.

Baseline days (medium days) are roughly 1.5g protein per lb rounded down but only counting direct sources, 2g carbs per ib, and about 25g added fats daily which puts me around 45-50g fats including indirect sources.

Low days are for rest days mainly and are the same as baseline medium days, except I do about 10-20g more added fats, and I take the carbs down to about 150g and get them all from fruits and vegetables.

High day is once per week. Protein is brought down to 1g per lb fron direct sources. I start at the same carb intake or close to my off season high days, about 4.5g per lb. I do no added fats and try to minimize fats as much as possible, this is the only day I’m using insulin and I’m using humalog with each meal.

This came out as follows for me - this is the macros at the start of this fat loss phase, I started at 215

Macros are counted as follows: direct protein sources only, all carbs counted, and added fats counted only

Low days: 300g protein, 150g carbs, 40g fats
Medium days: 300g protein, 400g carbs, 30g fats
High day: 210g protein, 900g carbs, 0g fats

Schedule is as follows:

Monday - rest day, low day
Tuesday - training day, medium day
Wednesday - training day, medium day
Thursday - rest day, low day
Friday - training day, medium day
Saturday - training day, low day
Sunday - training day, high day

Saturday is my only training day and low day as I want glycogen depleted maximally for my high day. When a low day falls in a training day, the carbs are not only fruits and veg as my other low days are, and I add an extra 50g carbs as well.

When done properly, a diet structured like this leads to the high day actually increases in calories as the diet progresses, sometimes to the point a second high day is required once very lean.

The calories on the medium and low days decrease over time. Once carbs get to 150g or lower on any given off day, it’s veg and fruit only.

I am sure to include at least 2 servings of fruit and 2 servings of veg every day (1 serving to me is 85g) except on high days, where I skip the veg.

Carb sources are kept to traditions bodybulding “clean” foods except on high days I intentionally select high carb low fat processed carb sources to be able to get in the carbs I need and maximize the benefits of the insulin.

I’m using about 45 units with my 900g carbs. If I use my bg monitor and see my bg is above 80 before meals, I will start increasing the insulin dosage, or I basically increase insulin as much as my body allows me without going hypo to maximize storage on this day. I don’t worry about insulin sensitivity as 1. I’m in a deficit 6 days a week and 2. I’m only using insulin 1 day per week.

This style diet is similar to how I bulk, I’m happy to share my favoured massing diet as well if anyone is interested

How does the high day increase if your weight is dropping?

 

[ChickenRiceRepeat]

How does the high day increase if your weight is dropping?

This confused me originally when I heard the method explained by Justin Harris.

I can’t really explain this in a calories in vs out sense, but many experiences coaches or competitors will tell you that when you get very lean, sometimes increasing csrbs more will cause your metabolism to run away even more.

The low days and medium days will decrease, but the high days will increase.

Keep in mind there is one high day a week.

One factor is you are going into the high day quite glycogen depleted, so the majority of those carbs are being stored (hence the insulin).

May have something to do with how carbohydrates interact with thyroid especially in a very depleted state.

It’s actually pretty common for guys to increase carbs a couple weeks out before a show and have there metabolism “run away” from them, I assume from the increased carbs stoking a sensitive metabolism without being used as energy in the moment when stored as glycogen.
This is more of an experience based reasoning than a hard scientific explanation.

I’m dropping roughly 3lb a week right now and my high day is increasing weekly. To be honest, I’d have it up around 1100 right now, but I’m having trouble getting past 900-950 on Reta right now as I just put it in and am not used to it.

Skip Hill’s skip loading method follows a similar protocol with increasing high days during fat loss.