Your thoughts for the future of chemical enhancement

[MasteroniPepperoni]

I think the R and D being put into muscle wasting diseases is admirable, but it will be interesting how much doctors really prescribe these compounds. It’s my understanding anavar is still heavily used in burn units.

I do find it interesting the genesis of S23 is an attempt at a male contraceptive. Anecdotally, it seems this stuff does turn users semen into water! I’ve also heard it’s a novel replacement for winstrol (theoretically).

Anavar is still used, yep. But here’s my dumb thoughts; more research on anavar and boom, we possibly have a demethylated version of it? also, bringing back Boldenone and even parabolan into human trials? Further research and we get more derivates? Just some thoughts which may not even be feasible

I have heard this on s23. Seems extremely potent and effective. Cheap too. Another is s4 which seems like the perfect compound. Low suppression, no aromatization, most report barely any changes in blood parameters, etc. it too gets compared to lower doses of winstrol…. YET , it f*cks with your vision lol. Literally binds to ocular receptors which is nuts

 

[Mufasa123]

No idea if this was true but regarding tendon/leverage manipulation via surgery, years ago a then former OL coach told me the Russians had played with this and results, though mathematically superior, resulted in a lot of weirdness. Basically athletes had to relearn their bodies in daily life and to a degree lifting technique in general. All their movement patterns and learning changed. Juice not worth the squeeze was their conclusion. Then again they had a big population of athletes to choose from and would discard anyone subpar. In this country we have guys competing with subpar genetics who simply just "want it" so their calculus may be different.

 

[OuchThatHurts]

Anavar is still used, yep. But here’s my dumb thoughts; more research on anavar and boom, we possibly have a demethylated version of it? also, bringing back Boldenone and even parabolan into human trials? Further research and we get more derivates? Just some thoughts which may not even be feasible

I have heard this on s23. Seems extremely potent and effective. Cheap too. Another is s4 which seems like the perfect compound. Low suppression, no aromatization, most report barely any changes in blood parameters, etc. it too gets compared to lower doses of winstrol…. YET , it f*cks with your vision lol. Literally binds to ocular receptors which is nuts

I think the SARMs are just not there yet. They keep getting rejected in early phases. Reports are good by bodybuilders but the studies show a massive HPGA implosion, vision problems, and for a selective androgen, they don't seem very selective. At least as far as selecting skeletal muscle tissue is concerned. Are they even superior to testosterone? It would be nice to see a SARM that was specifically selective of skeletal muscle tissue only while leaving the HPTA and spermatogenesis intact. Without the addition of hCG, your balls would be nothing more than a memory. And maybe just me but I want those boys bouncing off her chin.

 

[pickapeck]

The first thing that comes to mind is injuries. The second thing that comes to mind is the increasing number of older athletes that enjoy some significant part of this lifestyle. So injury recovery would be a great place to enhance. When I was younger and a competative athlete I could recover from 2 workouts a day. 2-3 days off and small injuries were healed. Major injuries were healed in a couple of months. I was gifted in my revcovery abilities. Now in my 60s things are much slower to heal and that issue starts in the late 30s for most lpeople. Another thing I noticed, in my mid 40s was that my skill level coupled with my experience made me very competitive at elite camps but my recuperation abilities were limiting. If I could recover like I did in my 20s I could have been even more of a threat than I was when I was in my late 20s to early thirties. Also, moving into my 50s injuries from the past resurfaced after being dormant for many years. Aside from some long lost wish for competition again, just the ability to recover very fast would be a game changer in life and life style. Something like stem cell rejuvenation/replacement would be awesome.

Imagine you can go to some sports clinic and receive a treatment every 6 months and you don't even need HRT anymore because your entire body rejuvinated. All your arthritis disipates. You recover from workouts 3-4 tiems as fast as if younger man/woman in your late 20s. Your test levels are 1100. Your IGF-1 levels are in the mid 200s. Your blood work is perfect. You can eat more quality food. Your sexlife is better. That's what I would like to see.

 

[OuchThatHurts]

The first thing that comes to mind is injuries. The second thing that comes to mind is the increasing number of older athletes that enjoy some significant part of this lifestyle. So injury recovery would be a great place to enhance. When I was younger and a competative athlete I could recover from 2 workouts a day. 2-3 days off and small injuries were healed. Major injuries were healed in a couple of months. I was gifted in my revcovery abilities. Now in my 60s things are much slower to heal and that issue starts in the late 30s for most lpeople. Another thing I noticed, in my mid 40s was that my skill level coupled with my experience made me very competitive at elite camps but my recuperation abilities were limiting. If I could recover like I did in my 20s I could have been even more of a threat than I was when I was in my late 20s to early thirties. Also, moving into my 50s injuries from the past resurfaced after being dormant for many years. Aside from some long lost wish for competition again, just the ability to recover very fast would be a game changer in life and life style. Something like stem cell rejuvenation/replacement would be awesome.

Imagine you can go to some sports clinic and receive a treatment every 6 months and you don't even need HRT anymore because your entire body rejuvinated. All your arthritis disipates. You recover from workouts 3-4 tiems as fast as if younger man/woman in your late 20s. Your test levels are 1100. Your IGF-1 levels are in the mid 200s. Your blood work is perfect. You can eat more quality food. Your sexlife is better. That's what I would like to see.

Amen! Best yet! And not just because it totally applies to me, either. We're going to have a rapidly growing older population with lifespans increased resulting in a growing number of potential patients crying out for an improved quality of life at 55-85+ years. And $money (which means R&D) drives this entire industry. We act like it doesn't but we all know it's full-on capitalism which may be the only part of this industry where it shines - through advancements and innovation. Diseases that were often death sentences just years ago like HIV and Hep C are now essentially no longer fatal. Hopefully, some relief for Alzheimers and MS will be forthcoming as well. I now have two friends with MS and it's worse than I thought. They are definitely not the same. It's hard to watch that deterioration.

Diabetes is going to rapidly become the biggest health problem while I believe FLD has already become the most common disease worldwide affecting a high percentage of the population.

 

[TheOtherOne55]

Amen! Best yet! And not just because it totally applies to me, either. We're going to have a rapidly growing older population with lifespans increased resulting in a growing number of potential patients crying out for an improved quality of life at 55-85+ years. And $money (which means R&D) drives this entire industry. We act like it doesn't but we all know it's full-on capitalism which may be the only part of this industry where it shines - through advancements and innovation. Diseases that were often death sentences just years ago like HIV and Hep C are now essentially no longer fatal. Hopefully, some relief for Alzheimers and MS will be forthcoming as well. I now have two friends with MS and it's worse than I thought. They are definitely not the same. It's hard to watch that deterioration.

Diabetes is going to rapidly become the biggest health problem while I believe FLD has already become the most common disease worldwide affecting a high percentage of the population.

THIS.

The older population will get something. We are all going to be living longer and in turn, working longer. The retirement age is moving back too.
50 years ago, people would retire at 60 and chill for the next 15-20 years. That will not be the case moving forward. The American workforce is now my diverse than ever in terms of age and will only get older. Inflation is a bitch and most people just cannot retire and not work for that llength of time now too. I bet, through whatever means, the anti-aging field will explode again as more 50+ year olds are forced to work ALL TYPES of jobs, includng ones that are more physical in nature. No idea howww this happens but its a reallll thing.

 

[OuchThatHurts]

A big part of his stuff is just teaching how the various muscles attach, are strongest in the lengthened position, the strength curve, etc. He talked about how a variance in the insertion point could put the muscle in a much stronger position to exert force.

The bicep tendon insertion reminded me of his thoughts on the prevalence of distal tendon ruptures during a preacher curl as the bicep is at a significant mechanical disadvantage (pulling much more parallel to the forearm and upper arm when the arm is lengthened) but also the weight is further from the the elbow joint axis, thus creating a double magnifier, and causing ruptures.

Certainly (at least I hope) that people have moved away from preacher curls entirely. It was always a terrible exercise from an injury standpoint with perfectly acceptable alternatives.

 

[J.DREDD]

The first thing that comes to mind is injuries. The second thing that comes to mind is the increasing number of older athletes that enjoy some significant part of this lifestyle. So injury recovery would be a great place to enhance. When I was younger and a competative athlete I could recover from 2 workouts a day. 2-3 days off and small injuries were healed. Major injuries were healed in a couple of months. I was gifted in my revcovery abilities. Now in my 60s things are much slower to heal and that issue starts in the late 30s for most lpeople. Another thing I noticed, in my mid 40s was that my skill level coupled with my experience made me very competitive at elite camps but my recuperation abilities were limiting. If I could recover like I did in my 20s I could have been even more of a threat than I was when I was in my late 20s to early thirties. Also, moving into my 50s injuries from the past resurfaced after being dormant for many years. Aside from some long lost wish for competition again, just the ability to recover very fast would be a game changer in life and life style. Something like stem cell rejuvenation/replacement would be awesome.

Imagine you can go to some sports clinic and receive a treatment every 6 months and you don't even need HRT anymore because your entire body rejuvinated. All your arthritis disipates. You recover from workouts 3-4 tiems as fast as if younger man/woman in your late 20s. Your test levels are 1100. Your IGF-1 levels are in the mid 200s. Your blood work is perfect. You can eat more quality food. Your sexlife is better. That's what I would like to see.

It will be interesting how close to this high end rejuvenation clinics can get. I know Brad Rowe was starting one somewhere with some serious financial backing, obviously there are restrictions on what treatments can be implemented here in the states, but even within that, if you have the expendable income, I think this may be something in the future.

 

[OuchThatHurts]

It will be interesting how close to this high end rejuvenation clinics can get. I know Brad Rowe was starting one somewhere with some serious financial backing, obviously there are restrictions on what treatments can be implemented here in the states, but even within that, if you have the expendable income, I think this may be something in the future.

Ideally, rejuvenation itself will become a covered medical expense as it will be vital to people living and being productive into their later years and not just as an elective treatment or cosmetic as they currently consider it. HRT should become standard procedure for everyone. At the very least, checking for and treating hormonal deficiencies.

Another big shift I see is towards preventive medicine. With diabetes and FLD affecting 40% of the world population, exercise and fitness could become standardized. Preventive medicine could reduce public costs of healthcare by 30-50% meaning billions in reduced medical costs. My plan covers gym membership, chiropractic, and mental care almost entirely. To insurance providers, that is money well spent. Heart disease, diabetes, back surgery are huge costs that I'm certain is driving up healthcare costs.

 

[emeric delczeg]

Yes I've been learning a lot about the burgeoning study of miRNAs (e.g., myomiRs under androgen regulation; the mir-465 miRNA family involved in GH/IGF-I/PI3K-Akt functions). There'll be a lot more to learn as the study of these advances.

A study by Jansson and Lund (2012) points to miRNAs having key roles in stem cells and stem cell differentiation and in induced pluripotency. Jansson and Lund (2012) specifically mentioned miRNA 302 having shown to produce iPSC in both human and mouse fibroblasts (Anokye-Danso et al in Jansson & Lund, 2012); in addition, researchers emphasize that miRNAs could exert their full effects by via multiple targets (Jansson & Lund, 2012).

microRNAs in skeletal muscle development​

Gi Fay Mok 1, Estefania Lozano-Velasco 1, Andrea Münsterberg 2
Affiliations expand

• PMID: 29102719
• DOI: 10.1016/j.semcdb.2017.10.032

Abstract​

A fundamental process during both embryo development and stem cell differentiation is the control of cell lineage determination. In developing skeletal muscle, many of the diffusible signaling molecules, transcription factors and more recently non-coding RNAs that contribute to this process have been identified. This has facilitated advances in our understanding of the molecular mechanisms underlying the control of cell fate choice. Here we will review the role of non-coding RNAs, in particular microRNAs (miRNAs), in embryonic muscle development and differentiation, and in satellite cells of adult muscle, which are essential for muscle growth and regeneration. Some of these short post-transcriptional regulators of gene expression are restricted to skeletal muscle, but their expression can also be more widespread. In addition, we discuss a few examples of long non-coding RNAs, which are numerous but much less well understood.

 

[nothuman]

Maybe I am being a pessimist but there haven't really been any dramatic enhancements in chemical enhancement in decades. Trestolone and DHB are the only two I can think of that really build muscle that people only started using in the last five years. Peptides have their place but they don't compare to steroids when it comes to building muscle. I don't think anything dramatic is right around the corner.

 

[emeric delczeg]

Amen! Best yet! And not just because it totally applies to me, either. We're going to have a rapidly growing older population with lifespans increased resulting in a growing number of potential patients crying out for an improved quality of life at 55-85+ years. And $money (which means R&D) drives this entire industry. We act like it doesn't but we all know it's full-on capitalism which may be the only part of this industry where it shines - through advancements and innovation. Diseases that were often death sentences just years ago like HIV and Hep C are now essentially no longer fatal. Hopefully, some relief for Alzheimers and MS will be forthcoming as well. I now have two friends with MS and it's worse than I thought. They are definitely not the same. It's hard to watch that deterioration.

Diabetes is going to rapidly become the biggest health problem while I believe FLD has already become the most common disease worldwide affecting a high percentage of the population.

I would not mined to help your 2 friends with MS, no charge, and in privet.

 

[OuchThatHurts]

I would not mined to help your 2 friends with MS, no charge, and in privet.

I'll send you a PM.

 

[qbkilla]

No idea if this was true but regarding tendon/leverage manipulation via surgery, years ago a then former OL coach told me the Russians had played with this and results, though mathematically superior, resulted in a lot of weirdness. Basically athletes had to relearn their bodies in daily life and to a degree lifting technique in general. All their movement patterns and learning changed. Juice not worth the squeeze was their conclusion. Then again they had a big population of athletes to choose from and would discard anyone subpar. In this country we have guys competing with subpar genetics who simply just "want it" so their calculus may be different.

This. Risk vs reward I'd pass on any such surgery especially if the reward is being a little stronger or bigger. Makes me think of those short guys in India breaking their legs to grow a few inches taller.

 

[J.DREDD]

This. Risk vs reward I'd pass on any such surgery especially if the reward is being a little stronger or bigger. Makes me think of those short guys in India breaking their legs to grow a few inches taller.

I think that’s a big part of the equation for any advancement, are YOU willing to give it a go? I think we all have certain compounds or practices we are or are not willing to subject ourselves to in the pursuit of whatever goals. Would I be willing to roll the dice on an experimental compound for a bazillion dollar contract ? Lol, probably! Same cocktail for better abs? Hard pass for me

 

[qbkilla]

I think that’s a big part of the equation for any advancement, are YOU willing to give it a go? I think we all have certain compounds or practices we are or are not willing to subject ourselves to in the pursuit of whatever goals. Would I be willing to roll the dice on an experimental compound for a bazillion dollar contract ? Lol, probably! Same cocktail for better abs? Hard pass for me

Same here lol

Dnp, superdrol, clean I've chose to pass on them. Even at my age heavy bench and squat? I choose to pass. That extra size and strength isn't worth the potential to get hurt. I'd rather not have anything to contribute in the " what injuries and surgeries have you had?" Threads.

 

[Alan1]

Maybe I am being a pessimist but there haven't really been any dramatic enhancements in chemical enhancement in decades. Trestolone and DHB are the only two I can think of that really build muscle that people only started using in the last five years. Peptides have their place but they don't compare to steroids when it comes to building muscle. I don't think anything dramatic is right around the corner.

I feel similar. While it's cool to think that maybe there's someone like a Patrick Arnold or others out there continuing to experiment with and tweak existing compounds (what @MasteroniPepperoni was alluding to earlier in the thread) to possibly bring to market, I just doubt there's much incentive to do so, between what's already widely available and where things are headed (gene doping, myostatin, etc). Guess I'm mostly curious about gene doping and seeing what happens with SARMS as a whole.

@OuchThatHurts touched on preventative medicine and "standardizing exercise and fitness" which, considering current healthcare crisis trends seems like it has to happen somehow and be a bigger part of the convo. Not to derail, but in my time spent working in a non-clinical healthcare position I've had countless conversations with some folks I know on the clinical/patient care side and it can be damn depressing hearing how many people they see that have major issues that could be or could have been at least partly remedied by just getting off the ass and making fitness a part of their life. *shrug*

 

[J.DREDD]

I feel similar. While it's cool to think that maybe there's someone like a Patrick Arnold or others out there continuing to experiment with and tweak existing compounds (what @MasteroniPepperoni was alluding to earlier in the thread) to possibly bring to market, I just doubt there's much incentive to do so, between what's already widely available and where things are headed (gene doping, myostatin, etc). Guess I'm mostly curious about gene doping and seeing what happens with SARMS as a whole.

@OuchThatHurts touched on preventative medicine and "standardizing exercise and fitness" which, considering current healthcare crisis trends seems like it has to happen somehow and be a bigger part of the convo. Not to derail, but in my time spent working in a non-clinical healthcare position I've had countless conversations with some folks I know on the clinical/patient care side and it can be damn depressing hearing how many people they see that have major issues that could be or could have been at least partly remedied by just getting off the ass and making fitness a part of their life. *shrug*

Absolutely! It’s kind of sad healthcare companies should have to “incentivize” taking care of yourself and being at a baseline level of fitness for your age, but that may need to be the start of it. I know of companies (general employment) that offer a gift card or vacation hours or something if their employees show up to little check up where they take bp, hr, some baseline measurements. It’s a start!

 

[LK3]

antioxidents are where its at.
if you can get shit to work its incomparable.
nobody fucks with it as there is not much money to be made, money is made from patenting shit. drug companies spend milli8ons trying to change naturally occuring things.
its also tedious with complicated admin and use issues.
but its next level.

 

[Zarati]

antioxidents are where its at.
if you can get shit to work its incomparable.
nobody fucks with it as there is not much money to be made, money is made from patenting shit. drug companies spend milli8ons trying to change naturally occuring things.
its also tedious with complicated admin and use issues.
but its next level.

What's your favorite antioxidant?