Liver help

[Quadlife]

question, ok so every time the docs have me do bloodwork my liver enzymes are always elevated, I was using Tudca , then as an experiment I stopped and added Synthergine liver protector from promuscle, I started Inj anadrol only 25mg every other day that's it, I took 1 day off gym then got liver tested again on Saturday and now enzymes are even worse, I had a liver biopsy done on Friday waiting on results, but its like tudca doesn't work maybe NAC will work? im on test 600 eq 300 tren ace only been on 3 weeks if that at 300mg and gh 5 iu, not really sure what to do here...

 

[K1]

question, ok so every time the docs have me do bloodwork my liver enzymes are always elevated, I was using Tudca , then as an experiment I stopped and added Synthergine liver protector from promuscle, I started Inj anadrol only 25mg every other day that's it, I took 1 day off gym then got liver tested again on Saturday and now enzymes are even worse, I had a liver biopsy done on Friday waiting on results, but its like tudca doesn't work maybe NAC will work? im on test 600 eq 300 tren ace only been on 3 weeks if that at 300mg and gh 5 iu, not really sure what to do here...

If Synthergine and Tudca didn't work then I would suggest you stopping everything until you see if there is an underlining issue...The liver effects the entire system, so when that's stressed the gear you are taking isn't going to be optimum and is just going to fuck you more!

 

[Beti ona]

Lol, just one day out of training? Do you lift weights? I have to be gone for a 5-7 days so that my liver values can be taken seriously. And I do not even use orals or any type of anabolic.

 

[Quadlife]

Holy crap that many days off wow

 

[1bigmofo]

wait wait wait....u went from elevated liver enzymes straight to a biopsy? get a new Dr. or i’m calling bullshit. or we are not getting the complete story.

 

[Beti ona]

Intense exercise can raise liver values too much for a few days. I do not know how many days are necessary for the values to return to normal and, but I always take advantage of my rest week, otherwise, it is a waste of time and I have to repeat the analyzes.

1 day out it definitely does not do the trick.

 

[mike036]

wait wait wait....u went from elevated liver enzymes straight to a biopsy? get a new Dr. or i’m calling bullshit. or we are not getting the complete story.

Something doesn’t sound rite. I have had high liver enzymes in the past and first they did more bloodwork to check for hep c,when that was negative they did an ultrasound which turned out to be normal

 

[M@NU]

this hurts just reading.
If i take bloods without a break from training i am in the 400-800 range for ALT and AST.
and i am not taking any hepatoxic stuff.
and you did go straight to biopsy? wow

Intense exercise can raise liver values too much for a few days. I do not know how many days are necessary for the values to return to normal and, but I always take advantage of my rest week, otherwise, it is a waste of time and I have to repeat the analyzes.

1 day out it definitely does not do the trick.

ALT has 2 days half life, AST around 18 hours.
so even 1 week may not be enough

if you want to get information about liver health, it is wiser to use gamma GT as an indicator.
If gamma GT is in range you most likely have no liver issues!! (99% of the time this is correct)

 

[Quadlife]

. wait wait wait....u went from elevated liver enzymes straight to a biopsy? get a new Dr. or i’m calling bullshit. or we are not getting the complete story

Sorry for confusion guys, the liver biopsy was ordered so I can get approved for a med that can cause high LIVER values, it still was ordered cuz of my high enzymes but it wasn’t ordered for precaution on the new med

I competed and was dehydrated got
Liver checked day after show on halo Tren winny proviron etc and alt was 128 so now with syntherigne and tried tudca and it’s been 323 and now
403 alt makes no sense. I do feel like tudca that I had and synthegine are both ineffective tho

 

[XstarchildX]

I agree with others who stated hard training will certainly elevate them. I have to take a good week off prior otherwise they're in the 60's or 70's.

 

[Cinder]

Sounds like tudca is fake.
Values should go down.
Doesn't mean liver wouldn't still be damaged with lower values but they should still lower.

 

[emperorcaliano]

Hey guys, have you heard about Ergy Desmodium?

It's well used in France by people who have cancer who follows chemotherapies (and can stress your liver).
I've been using in the past Tuda and Liv52DS.
But my two past cycles, I've been using Desmodium, my liver's values dropped everytime nearly back to normal while I was taking Orals. :yeahthat:

 

[M@NU]

Sorry for confusion guys, the liver biopsy was ordered so I can get approved for a med that can cause high LIVER values, it still was ordered cuz of my high enzymes but it wasn’t ordered for precaution on the new med

I competed and was dehydrated got
Liver checked day after show on halo Tren winny proviron etc and alt was 128 so now with syntherigne and tried tudca and it’s been 323 and now
403 alt makes no sense. I do feel like tudca that I had and synthegine are both ineffective tho

COULD make sense.
alt correlates to your cpk value. it does not peak right after the "event" (in this case training). so lets say you have trained 2 days ago. Yesterday you took blood and your alt was 100. THIS was not the peak. it was still rising. so this morning you took bloods and alt has reached its peak. I am not sure about the exact times but cpk peakes about 2 days after the event and then drops with a half life of around 36 hours. Maybe the peak for alt comes later since its half life is also longer than that of cpk

 

[MyNameIsJeff]

Some people in this train wreck of a thread remind me of the African warlords who think that eating their enemies heart will make them invincible to bullets TUDCA, Synthergine etc. can ameliorate the damage to your liver caused by some drugs but not all of them. They don't make the liver invincible, and there's no guarantee that liver values will go down when taking them.

As was pointed by others, strenuous exercise can elevate ALT and AST levels for up to 5 days. This is typically accompanied by highly elevated CK. Clearly, drugs like TUDCA would not prevent increases in AST/ALT due to muscle damage.

However, the exercise induced elevations very rarely lead to AST/ALT level above 200 U/l. So I'm surprised that some people claim to have levels in the "400-800 range" just from exercise. If you reach those levels, I would definitely take a break from exercise for a week to see if liver values get back in range. If not, there needs to be additional testing for other causes like viral/autoimmune hepatitis and other drugs (Tylenol, ethanol, herbal supplements) causing liver damage.

 

[M@NU]

Some people in this train wreck of a thread remind me of the African warlords who think that eating their enemies heart will make them invincible to bullets TUDCA, Synthergine etc. can ameliorate the damage to your liver caused by some drugs but not all of them. They don't make the liver invincible, and there's no guarantee that liver values will go down when taking them.

As was pointed by others, strenuous exercise can elevate ALT and AST levels for up to 5 days. This is typically accompanied by highly elevated CK. Clearly, drugs like TUDCA would not prevent increases in AST/ALT due to muscle damage.

However, the exercise induced elevations very rarely lead to AST/ALT level above 200 U/l. So I'm surprised that some people claim to have levels in the "400-800 range" just from exercise. If you reach those levels, I would definitely take a break from exercise for a week to see if liver values get back in range. If not, there needs to be additional testing for other causes like viral/autoimmune hepatitis and other drugs (Tylenol, ethanol, herbal supplements) causing liver damage.

ofc it is wise to retest after not training, thats exactly what i did.
They drop slowly to baseline (took more than 5 days though due to long halflife)
my cpk is the same. TRaining elevates them to 5000++.
I guess some individuals are more prone to higher levels due to physical stress than others

 

[Bio]

Start with the simplest solution. Take a week off of training, get blood work and see where you are.

 

[Quadlife]

. COULD make sense.
alt correlates to your cpk value. it does not peak right after the "event" (in this case training). so lets say you have trained 2 days ago. Yesterday you took blood and your alt was 100. THIS was not the peak. it was still rising. so this morning you took bloods and alt has reached its peak. I am not sure about the exact times but cpk peakes about 2 days after the event and then drops with a half life of around 36 hours. Maybe the peak for alt comes later since its half life is also longer than that of cpk

Ahh I see, this is definitely some
Good info!

 

[Kaladryn]

As others have stated, exercise-induced elevations are in the order of 2x the normal range, maximum. 10x the normal range is the very serious range that means something is probably wrong or they are under serious stress.

AST is primarily elevated from exercise and has a halflife of about 24 hours and ALT, which has a halflife of about 48 hours, isn't as elevated from exercise, but has a longer halflife, so can be about the same from elevation as AST from exercise from multiple days in a row.

In my experience, EXTREME exercise elevations (that coincide with a CPK value of around 2000) are only slightly outside the normal range, definitely not more than 2x the normal range, if that.

 

[bigsonbitch]

all i know is my enzymes were elevated alt 83 /ast 40, not so bad. was taking nac and tudca at the time

switched to syntergine 2cc a day and liv52

4 weeks later
alt 33
ast 21

 

[M@NU]

just a short follow up because some people said they would worry for values between 400 and 800 for AST or ALT
i have found an interesting study
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2291230/

this study included 15 persons (more at beginning, some for excluded)
and they did an hour of weightlifting daily.
check our the increases for ALT and AST
the value is in µkat/L (SI unit), what we usually have on our blood tests is U/L.
so
2 subjects had an AST value of 960 (!!), and 2 subjects had an ALT of around 300. this is 2 out of 15!! and i bet the weightlifting program is not comparable to what we do to our bodies ;-)..
also interesting: 50% of the participants had CK values over 10000!! (values shown in table is µkat/L again, do not confuse it with our U/L)

Conclusion:
don't pay for AST&ALT if you are concerned about liver health.
Pay for gamma GT (a bit more expensive where i live) and for Alkaline Phosphat maybe (as an add-on, not required imo but its 2€ for me)

if you wanne take ALT and AST (also CK, myoglobin, LDH etc) DO NOT TRAIN FOR AT LEAST 10 days (might still be not enough time, dependent on where those values are when you start the break)