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Not so fast, FASTED CARDIO debunked for superior fat loss?!!

G.I.Bro

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Well, guys, that didnt take long. For every study there is a counter-study. Literally days after that last abstract I posted which supported the idea that "fat oxidation" increased in a fasted state, Brad Jon Schoenfeld and Alan Albert Aragon have produced their long hyped study on the effects of fasted cardio for actual weight loss. As suspected, increased "fat oxidation" does not necessarily translate directly into real world fat loss.

Prior abstract: http://www.professionalmuscle.com/f...ardio-=-50%-increase-total-fat-oxidation.html

This study by Schoenfeld has been long awaited and is much better suited to real world results. As always, SuppVersity makes it easy for us to consume the data.

New "Fasted Cardio"-Study Falsifies the Myth of Superior Long-Term (4 Week) Fat Loss on a Moderate Energy Deficit - SuppVersity: Nutrition and Exercise Science for Everyone

As Schoenfeld et al. rightly point out, their findings clearly "indicate that body composition changes associated with aerobic exercise in conjunction with a hypocaloric diet are similar regardless whether or not an individual is fasted prior to training" (Schoenfeld. 2014) - in other words, in this pretty realistic scenario (I hope nobody starves himself after a 1h morning cardio session for another 4-8h) the myth that morning cardio on an empty stomach would accelerate fat loss is thus busted.

For the time being, the long-standing "myth" that fasted cardio would lead to a significant acceleration has thus to be considered "questionable", if you put 100% faith the statistical accuracy of the study at hand (with only 10 participants in both groups, I am inclined not to do that) even "busted". For so long, at least, until another study, maybe one with more participants (which would allow to really figure out how "significant" the difference actually was), but a similar strict standardization, will show that it works.

So again, we are back to ground zero fellas. The same knowledge the old vet at the gym told you. Eat clean, get your cardio in (whenever you can) and fucking bust your ass. No short cuts. That said, I choose to do some light LISS for 30min, fasted, upon rising because I still believe its better to separate your cardio and training session if you can (and studies show cardio BEFORE training, if done in same session, is better for muscle growth/mTOR). And we DO KNOW that fat oxidation is increased with Fasted cardio, this is a fact (true, low insulin fasted cardio), so the addition of the GH/DNP/T3/ephedrine, etc. whatever you use, can take that optimized oxidation state and translate it into slightly better fat loss (we hope). But the take away here is, in real world, with real factors, merely increasing fat oxidation for a period doesn't necessarily translate to true fat loss. Remember that Fat oxidation (better called 'beta oxidation') is the release of free fatty acids that can then be burnt/utilized. Apparently a short increased period in FFA release does not necessarily translate to overall better metabolism and/or fat loss.

**broken link removed**
 
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yeh mate , like you said, irrespective of whatever studies say, i just do my cardio first thing on an empty stomach, get it out the way, its wakes me up for the day and i can get on with my business , then train later on in the day. I have tried doing cardio at other times and i always ended up missing sessions.

So for results you just need to be consistent is the key .
 
I haven't had a chance to post in your previous thread, but I have to say that I fasted cardio is a life saver for me.

I came off TRT last year after 10 years of AAS and due to test levels being in the shitter I had a real challenge to keep fat off while trying to hold on to as much muscle as possible. I used to do before bed cardio, but last year I switched to mornings on an empty stomach and boom, it melts fat off like no tomorrow, I have more strength and feel overall better probably due to elevated metabolism throughout a day.
 
I haven't had a chance to post in your previous thread, but I have to say that I fasted cardio is a life saver for me.

I came off TRT last year after 10 years of AAS and due to test levels being in the shitter I had a real challenge to keep fat off while trying to hold on to as much muscle as possible. I used to do before bed cardio, but last year I switched to mornings on an empty stomach and boom, it melts fat off like no tomorrow, I have more strength and feel overall better probably due to elevated metabolism throughout a day.

I have to say that most "real world" anecdotal testimony/experience, gurus, trainers, etc. all suggest early AM fasted cardio. This is just one more reason (aside from what I stated above) I feel its still the best time to do it. I read this study last night and got up this morning for some cardio. I think the prior study showing 50% increase in fat oxidation may have actually motivated that. Fuck it, its what I'm doing from now on. As you said, I skip it in the evening when I try to combine sessions.
 
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I've been asked so many times by "gym bros" when they should do their cardio and have been criticized by the said "bros" because when dieting I often do cardio in the evening (or whenever I get the chance)... I always say, just get it in when you can, don't overanalyze when you do it, just do it... I get in the best condition out of anyone at my gym and they think I am just bullshitting them... they figure if they can't do cardio fasted, it is useless and I am not telling the truth... I just shake my head....
 
I've been asked so many times by "gym bros" when they should do their cardio and have been criticized by the said "bros" because when dieting I often do cardio in the evening (or whenever I get the chance)... I always say, just get it in when you can, don't overanalyze when you do it, just do it... I get in the best condition out of anyone at my gym and they think I am just bullshitting them... they figure if they can't do cardio fasted, it is useless and I am not telling the truth... I just shake my head....

Agreed. It's splitting hairs to say one time is ideal. That said, if I were giving advice this is what it would be:

Optimum fat loss: fasted morning cardio, training session later in the day. If that doesnt work for you, do your cardio before your weight training, or any time it works. It doesnt matter much.

Optimum muscle growth: LISS morning cardio, fasted, but consume a meal and/or BCAA/protein/carb soon after. Training session later in the day. If you MUST combine sessions, no big deal. But there are a few studies which support that cardio before training is better for muscle accrual because the little bit of cardio does not diminish training performance or strength and not doing it POST-training will avoid some of the mTOR dampening effects that cardio can have after training. All that bs about burning more fat because glycogen is more depleted after training is false. You dont get that depleted and its negligible. But post-workout cardio does tend to shut off some anabolic signaling.

Again, still all splitting hairs...
 
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Agreed. It's splitting hairs to say one time is ideal. That said, if I were giving advice this is what it would be:

Optimum fat loss: fasted morning cardio, training session later in the day. If that doesnt work for you, do your cardio before your weight training, or any time it works. It doesnt matter much.

Optimum muscle growth: LISS morning cardio, fasted, but consume a meal and/or BCAA/protein/carb soon after. Training session later in the day. If you MUST combine sessions, no big deal. But there are a few studies which support that cardio before training is better for muscle accrual because the little bit of cardio does not diminish training performance or strength and not doing it POST-training will avoid some of the mTOR dampening effects that cardio can have after training. All that bs about burning more fat because glycogen is more depleted after training is false. You dont get that depleted and its negligible. But post-workout cardio does tend to shut off some anabolic signaling.

Again, still all splitting hairs...

I do agree with you... one thing I do like about faster Am cardio is it seems to "wake me up" and get me ready to take on the day...

But as you said, it is splitting hairs and there is no "magical time" to do cardio that will increase fat burning by 62.874%.... Just get it done and get on with your life.
 
Another corollary to all this: cardio is just a really inefficient and shitty way to lose fat. I know most of you know this, but for the young guys. If your cals and carbs arent reduced, all the extra cardio in the world wont matter much at all (other than health benefits). It's MUCH easier to tighten up a diet and lose fat that way then to "run it off." Diet is always primary and extra cardio is just icing on the cake.

People like John Meadows endorse getting extremely lean without all that much cardio (except maybe in prep?). Its all diet/carb manipulation.
 
Another corollary to all this: cardio is just a really inefficient and shitty way to lose fat. I know most of you know this, but for the young guys. If your cals and carbs arent reduced, all the extra cardio in the world wont matter much at all (other than health benefits). It's MUCH easier to tighten up a diet and lose fat that way then to "run it off." Diet is always primary and extra cardio is just icing on the cake.

People like John Meadows endorse getting extremely lean without all that much cardio (except maybe in prep?). Its all diet/carb manipulation.

I do more cardio off season for heart health than during prep... I did cardio for about 2.5 weeks, maybe 10-12 sessions TOTAL in 12 weeks of prep... In other years I did more cardio, but my training took care of a lot of metabolic activity and I did not need much cardio. I would say my conditioning without cardio did not suffer :)
 
I guess the time is not that important. Calories are Calories. Whether you burn them in the AM or PM i guess it does not matter.

With that being said, i have never been able to do it consistently in the AM, i start then i stop. And there is a huge list of reasons to do it in the AM... I am going to start soon and i feel like it will make a difference because it should give me energy throughout the day, and then after i train later i can just eat and try to grow. Doing cardio after training hinders growth IMO...

Getting a TV hooked up in the room where i have my treadmill, so i have no more excuses not to do it in the AM
 
as a body can store up to 2000 calories of glycogen that is a lot of fasting and training to get the tanks empty to start burning fat. the theory never made a lot of sense to me.
**broken link removed**
 
as a body can store up to 2000 calories of glycogen that is a lot of fasting and training to get the tanks empty to start burning fat. the theory never made a lot of sense to me.
**broken link removed**

This has always bugged me about the fasted cardio argument. I guess you would be depleted on keto but then cardio is a living hell anyway. I'd rather just east less. Things like GH and injectable l carnitine would potentially push you more to fat stores then glycogen to but since diet is a lot more importation than cardio why even think about it
 
I have to say that most "real world" anecdotal testimony/experience, gurus, trainers, etc. all suggest early AM fasted cardio. This is just one more reason (aside from what I stated above) I feel its still the best time to do it. I read this study last night and got up this morning for some cardio. I think the prior study showing 50% increase in fat oxidation may have actually motivated that. Fuck it, its what I'm doing from now on. As you said, I skip it in the evening when I try to combine sessions.

Here is the thing,

So we all know that when you wake up and are in a fasted state, glycogen stores are MORE depleted than when you eat a meal. That being said, when you do fasted AM cardio, you are burning more fat, especially if you administered an intramuscular GH shot for a faster onset 30min before hand and took 20mcg of Clen! ;) I have to also agree that doing cardio WHENEVER is better than no cardio at all! So definitely get it in and if you can, preferably AM fasted. I mostly do my cardio after I train and a few days fasted AM cardio but most days are after I train.


-Baseline
 
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My own studies show fasted works very well.
 
Also gh peptides and gh alone makes a lot of difference in making fasted cardio much more efficient
 
Also gh peptides and gh alone makes a lot of difference in making fasted cardio much more efficient

i agree. i only do fasted cardio if im on peptides and will do the same when im on gh. when i wasnt i would have a shake consisting on egg whites, greek yogurt, banana, oatmeal, and flax. i will say having a meal before gave me a lot more energy and i could push harder.
 
Are any of you guys actually READING the studies? Christ...

In this new thread (why do we have a new thread?), they take supplement with carbs and shit post cardio.

If you're pounding carbs post workout you're stopping fat burning, mkay.
 
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