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How to build the upper pecs with high clavicual insertions

kingsnake

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Aug 6, 2012
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Hey fellas. Been training for 10 years on and off. I'm currently dieting right now to get lean weighing 220 LBS with 11% bodyfat.

My main problem is I have struggled for many years to build the clavicular head of the pecs which is the upper pecs. I'm looking for development right under the collar bone for that top heavy armored plated looking chest.

When I stand side ways my lower chest definitely dominates making my chest look like tits. The only time my upper chest looks great is when I'm flexing my chest but when standing relaxed, my upper chest is non existent with collar bones popping out.

4 years ago, I stopped doing all flat work and did all of chest work with incline movements, using varies degrees of incline angles, but still with minimal results and huge front delts. Recently I started doing the reverse grip barbell benchpress because emg studies have been showing that it hits the clavicular pecs even better then incline movements.

I've read that Dante has talked about how guys with high clavicular insertions will never build a great upper chest like guys with lower insertions. I've read that Dante states that guys with high insertions at the collar bone should do shoulder presses or over head presses to hit the upper chest and are not suited for incline benchpresses to hit there upper chest effectively like guys with lower clavicular insertions.

Is there any truth to this?

I can incline benchpress 275 LBs for 8 reps and hit 315 LBs for 3 reps. Even with that kind of strength on the incline, my upper chest still lags. What gives?

Is having high clavical insertions detrimental to developing a great upper chest??
 
Unfortunately we all have to struggle to improve some parts of our body, but this is part of the game.

Have you tried to use incline presses with dumbbells after some pre-exhausting exercise with some isolation movement to the upper pecs like low cable chest fly?
Another strategy could be some guillotine presses with free weights or even with a smith machine.

Anyway, good luck with that mate and excuse my english.
 
decline pressing
dips
dips for chest with arms locked, like reverse shrug
very light shoulder pressing really work the movement keep elbows wide and flex at the top
light seated front raises,but kind of arching inward and squeezing together at the top

I always loved the look of the top of the pecs being so full it looks like the deck of an aircraft carrier, like you could land a plain on there while standing... lol

still working at it!

using the above in various way over the years has helped to some degree.
 
at the risk of sounding like a total noob, can someone post a pic of what is considered high clavicle insertions? I tried to google it and saw some great fake tits but nothing to help me get an idea of what that means to a bodybuilder.
 
Pec minor dips have really helped me with this. Dante also has posted about an exercise. You do it in a smith machine on a relatively high incline. Grip pretty much as wide as possible. And bring the bar down just below the pecs . Should be done relatively light in the 15-20 range. These feel great and really hammer this areA
 
Hey fellas thanks for the advice. Hey heavyhitter. Do you have any video of this exercise for a better visual?

Hey yomstf. I can't do the guillotine presses because of my bad shoulders. I have wrecked my shoulders from years of heavy incline presses with my elbows flared out lowering the bar to my collar bone neck area. Now when I trained chest I have to keep my elbows tucked in on all of my presses like the way Branch Warren and Johnnie Jackson do it. I don't even use a straight barbell anymore when I do incline barbell presses. Now I have to use a swiss bar which allows me to use a neutral grip and keep my elbows tucked in when doing my heavy incline presses up to 315LBS for reps. The only time I use a straight barbell now is when I'm doing the reverse grip benchpress.

Right now I've made the reverse grip flat benchpress my main power movement for chest since EMG studies show that the reverse grip benchpress hits the upper chest/ clavicular heads 25% more effectively then incline benchpress. EMG studies show that the incline benchpress only hits the clavical portion of the chest 5% more then flat presses but the reverse grip flat benchpress hits the clavical portion of the chest a whooping 30% more then the regular flat benchpress.

For chest I have two workouts. Workout A and workout B
Here's workout A.

Reverse grip barbell benchpress 4 sets of 6 to 10
High incline dumbbell presses 4 sets 6 to 10
Incline hammer presses 3 sets of 6 to 10
Incline dumbbell flies 3 sets of 8 to 10
Low to high pulley cable flies 3 sets of 8 to 10

Here's workout B done 5 days later

High 60 degree incline dumbbell flies 6 sets of 8 to 10
Swiss bar 35 degree incline neutral grip presses 3 sets of 10 to 12
Low incline reverse grip dumbbell presses 3 sets of 8 to 10
Pec deck with seat low to hit upper chest 3 sets of 8 to 10
Decline pushups 3 sets to failure

What I don't understand is my upper chest does get really sore for 2 days after I train chest but I don't seem to have any meat at the collar bone. I'm basically trying to build that shelf look to where the collarbone is completely covered with muscle. The only time my upper chest mass beefs up is when I'm deliberately flexing my pecs. It's when I stand relaxed that my upper chest is non existent giving my pecs a sagging appearance when standing sideways in the mirror. I'm all lower pecs even though all of my chest work for the last couple of years have been upper chest based.

I'm wondering if Doggcrapp creator Dante is right about clavical insertions having a heavy bases on upper chest development. His theory is that only guys with lower insertions like Franco Columbo, Arnold and folks like them will benefit from incline presses and that guys with high insertions will never have an upper chest as well developed as guys with low insertions and inclines won't work for them. For guys with high insertions Dante says that Military presses or over head presses will best target the upper chest near the collar bone area.

I've also been told that for guys that use chemical assistance this really blows up the upper chest near the collar bone but I don't want to go that route so help for a natural lifter is appreciated fellas.
 
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decline pressing
dips
dips for chest with arms locked, like reverse shrug

very light shoulder pressing really work the movement keep elbows wide and flex at the top
light seated front raises,but kind of arching inward and squeezing together at the top

I always loved the look of the top of the pecs being so full it looks like the deck of an aircraft carrier, like you could land a plain on there while standing... lol

still working at it!

using the above in various way over the years has helped to some degree.

I have kinda narrow clavicles and not a genetically gifted upper chest. in bold is what worked best for me.
F2S
 
Hey Fit2Serve. Unfortunately I can't do heavy dips because of the shoulders issues that I have from years of heavy incline presses. My shoulders are bad where the upper bicep tendon attaches to the front delt so when doing any presses I have to keep my elbows tucked to my sides. Dips aggravate the area for me. Also doesn't dips hit mainly the lower pecs anyway?

Hey fellas. Here's some pics of my chest development. I'm currently dieting to lean out right now. Started dieting at 230 LBS. 5 months later I'm now down to 207 LBS but I still have ways to go to get shredded. Probrabley need to get down to 195 to be extremely lean if I don't lose any muscle while dieting.

On the first pic I'm am severly depleted from 5 days of extremely low carbs so my muscles are flat with no glycogen in them and I look terrible.

The other pics are after a cheat day with 500 grams of carbs in my system so I'm fuller and look a little better.

Pay attention to the pic of my side ways profile. In that pic you can clearly see that my upper chest when standing relaxed is non existent with my lower pecs protruded out with over developed front delts. I've had this problem from the get go despite all of the upper chest work I've been doing over the years.

The last pic is of me at the gym right after a chest workout so I have a decent pump going.

With the side ways profile pic, what do you guys think is the problem with my upper chest lagging giving my pecs a saggy breast appearance??

Also with the pics can anyone tell me if I have high clavical insertions or are they low?
 

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Honestly your chest looks pretty good.
 
Hey fellas thanks for the advice. Hey heavyhitter. Do you have any video of this exercise for a better visual?

Hey yomstf. I can't do the guillotine presses because of my bad shoulders. I have wrecked my shoulders from years of heavy incline presses with my elbows flared out lowering the bar to my collar bone neck area. Now when I trained chest I have to keep my elbows tucked in on all of my presses like the way Branch Warren and Johnnie Jackson do it. I don't even use a straight barbell anymore when I do incline barbell presses. Now I have to use a swiss bar which allows me to use a neutral grip and keep my elbows tucked in when doing my heavy incline presses up to 315LBS for reps. The only time I use a straight barbell now is when I'm doing the reverse grip benchpress.

Right now I've made the reverse grip flat benchpress my main power movement for chest since EMG studies show that the reverse grip benchpress hits the upper chest/ clavicular heads 25% more effectively then incline benchpress. EMG studies show that the incline benchpress only hits the clavical portion of the chest 5% more then flat presses but the reverse grip flat benchpress hits the clavical portion of the chest a whooping 30% more then the regular flat benchpress.

For chest I have two workouts. Workout A and workout B
Here's workout A.

Reverse grip barbell benchpress 4 sets of 6 to 10
High incline dumbbell presses 4 sets 6 to 10
Incline hammer presses 3 sets of 6 to 10
Incline dumbbell flies 3 sets of 8 to 10
Low to high pulley cable flies 3 sets of 8 to 10

Here's workout B done 5 days later

High 60 degree incline dumbbell flies 6 sets of 8 to 10
Swiss bar 35 degree incline neutral grip presses 3 sets of 10 to 12
Low incline reverse grip dumbbell presses 3 sets of 8 to 10
Pec deck with seat low to hit upper chest 3 sets of 8 to 10
Decline pushups 3 sets to failure

What I don't understand is my upper chest does get really sore for 2 days after I train chest but I don't seem to have any meat at the collar bone. I'm basically trying to build that shelf look to where the collarbone is completely covered with muscle. The only time my upper chest mass beefs up is when I'm deliberately flexing my pecs. It's when I stand relaxed that my upper chest is non existent giving my pecs a sagging appearance when standing sideways in the mirror. I'm all lower pecs even though all of my chest work for the last couple of years have been upper chest based.

I'm wondering if Doggcrapp creator Dante is right about clavical insertions having a heavy bases on upper chest development. His theory is that only guys with lower insertions like Franco Columbo, Arnold and folks like them will benefit from incline presses and that guys with high insertions will never have an upper chest as well developed as guys with low insertions and inclines won't work for them. For guys with high insertions Dante says that Military presses or over head presses will best target the upper chest near the collar bone area.

I've also been told that for guys that use chemical assistance this really blows up the upper chest near the collar bone but I don't want to go that route so help for a natural lifter is appreciated fellas.
Here's a vid of John doing pec minor dips.
[ame]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=IerK6jDwJN0[/ame]

As far as the Dante exercise I don't believe there's any videos. But it's essentially a high incline wide grip bench. But instead of bringing the bar to your clavicles you'll bring it to just below your nipples.
 
Hey bigd50. Thanks for the compliment bro but take a look at the pic of my side profile pic. Noticed how my upper chest is pretty damn flat and my lower chest is more developed. Also notice how my front delts seem to over power my chest as a whole. I'm wondering if genetically I just don't have enough fibers in my upper chest or if my chest as a whole just needs more mass.
 
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Any help fellas??

You've gotten several tips already. There's not gonna be a magic answer here. Just gonna have to keep working at it and tweaking exercises until you find what works for your particular physique.
 
1 arm iso hammer incline presses, hold each contraction 2 sec minimum, hit negatives even slower. Brutalize your muscle, eat, sleep, stretch, regenerate.
 
I think your chest looks proportionate to the rest of your body, at least the last pic where you're fully pumped. If you're nursing a shoulder injury, then you're limited as far as variety of exercises/angles you can use. I'd advise pause/explode(at the bottom of the rep) techniques on any pressing movements that your shoulders can tolerate, be it declines or incline. just make sure you feel the ''pull'' on the pecs before pressing.
 
Hey Muay Thai. Thanks for the advice with the one arm hammer inline presses.

Hey myosaurus. Yeah I’ve been nursing a shoulder injury for years now. I think it’s a slab tear where the upper bicep tendon attaches underneath the front delt. Years of heavy incline benchpressing with my elbows flared out has caused this.

Now when I do any pressing movements I keep my elbows tucked to my sides like Branch Warren does when he trains chest. Keeping the elbows tucked definitely allows me to train with out aggravating my injury but the downside is that with my elbows tucked in, I’m not as strong as when I flare my elbows out on pressing movements. With my elbows tucked in, my triceps feel it more and usually fail before my chest does. I wonder how Branch Warren was able to build a huge chest with doing all of his chest presses with his elbows glued to his sides like that without his triceps taking the brunt of the load??

Hey Freeway. Thanks for the advice. I have actually been told that my shoulders round forward do to over developed front delts and not enough rear delt work to keep my shoulders back which causes my upper chest to cave in since I’m apparently hunched forward. What’s crazy is I don’t even train my front delts directly. I guess all of my chest pressing has developed them by accident. I do train my back and rear delts pretty hard but I guess I can add more volume to them.
 
man, if you dont like yr chest, i'll take it.
id say it's a mental issue with you cuz you look good. kinda like... look at terrell owens when he was bigger and u have kinda the same upper body shape. he has the high clavicle thing if thats what u call it.
i ber u get alot more positive comments than negative. people think they have flaws but only they see them.
 
I had the same problem with my front delts overpowering my upper chest. I don't even do front delts anymore because of that very issue. When doing incline presses my front delts would take over pressing the weight. I started doing partial reps on incline press until exhaustion of the upper pecs.
I wouldn't do an actual press, it would be more of an arching motion to take the triceps out of the exercise. Can't use much weight but it sure did help with bringing up the upper pecs
 
Hey Freeway. Yeah I'm the same way. That's why every other chest work out I do all of my heavy incline fly work first to blast my upper chest and prexhaust it before doing my pressing movements. Definitely get sore in my upper pecs but not a lot of growth for me in that area. Your way of doing incline presses sounds interesting. So are you basically only pushing the barbell one quarter way up to leave the triceps out of it?
 
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