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Fulvic Acid

PoptartPsycho

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Jul 17, 2007
Messages
458
I see many touting using fulvic acid in conjunction with their coq10. Usually in the format of :

"200mg CoQ10 with 100mg Fulvic acid 30 minutes before training"

Is that the only time it is good for? I know my bottle for both says to take with a meal. But I don't eat that close to to working out. I usually work out in a fasted state in the mornings.

Is there a reason for this?
 
I always just take both before bed, coq10 helps me sleep. If I forget I take it in the Am.

Ak
 
Last edited:
I see many touting using fulvic acid in conjunction with their coq10. Usually in the format of :

"200mg CoQ10 with 100mg Fulvic acid 30 minutes before training"

Is that the only time it is good for? I know my bottle for both says to take with a meal. But I don't eat that close to to working out. I usually work out in a fasted state in the mornings.

Is there a reason for this?

You can take Fulvic acid more than 1 time per day, I take it 2 times per day, I do take it 30min before training with CoQ10, it increases ATP and evening with the chicken embryo extract. Fulvic acid helps to maintain higher concentrations of active CoQ10 and to help mitochondria more efficiently convert fats and sugars into ATP (Adenosine Triphosphate).
 
Maybe Emeric can chime in. :)

This will take many days and many pages.
Lat start with the Introduction to humic substances and applications.

THE PROBLEM
Researchers are often faced with insoluble problems when trying to join the sustainable development and environmental efforts along with globalization challenges.
The so called civilization diseases of human being (immune system problems, stress, allergy, obesity, acidity etc.) is caused mostly by micronutrient deficiencies.

THE APPROACH
Complexes of humic and fulvic acids and micronutrients give a natural solution to physical, mental and spiritual problems of people who try to satisfy the challenges of the technical civilization.
The medical and curative effects of humic substances have been known for thousands of years. Modern science develop and understand these molecules and call them frequently „natural antiviral molecules” or „alternative antibiotics

THE SOLUTION
High quality Fulvic Humic acid.

1.HUMIC SUBSTANCES IN NATURE

Humic substances are the biological-chemical-geological decomposition products of the living plant origin matter on the Earth. The biggest part of the terrestrial organic matter (biomass) are Humic Substances. Humus (soil-peat-coal) is the most relevant decomposition product of living matter so Humus is the most important media for the reproduction of the continental biomass.
The positive effects of Humic Substances in Medical and Agricultural applications related to their Humic Acid and Fulvic Acid content. Humic and Fulvic Acid molecules form a well-defined chemical structure and are the intermediate product of decay of the living matter.
The decomposition process of the terrestrial biomass can be divided into two parts that are Humification and Coal Formation. During Humification the so called Recent Humic Substances while during Coal Formation the Fossile Humic Substances are forming.

The precursor molecules of Humic Substances during humification are the ligneous plant residues which are transforming under chemical-biological aerob and anaerob oxidation-reduction processes.
The formation of humic acids in humification processes needs geological times, that is hundred thousands of years.

1.1. FORMATION OF HUMIC SUBSTANCES
The source of Humic Substances in Nature is basically the plant biomass. The geological decay end product of the plant biomass is the coal. While the mineral oil is the geological end product of the animals and low rank microbes and algae like organisms (lignin-free organisms).

Plants as raw materials:
Although there are tremendous different type of plants on the planet, nevertheless the number of chemical building blocks of the plant biomass is quite few. These building block groups behave chemically similarly during geological humification processes.

The plant biomass basically consist of the following molecule groups:
Proteins, Carbohydrates, Lipids, Cellulose, Lignins, Waxes-resins, Tannins, Minerals

The type of coal deposits depend of course on the following parameters:
a, composition of the original plant flora
b, circumstances of the deposit –overlaying-formation (type of soil and minerals)
c, physico-chemical parameters in the deposit-layer (preassure, temperature, time)

Humic Substances are forming and decay in Nature continuously. By definition we cannot find Humic Substances in living plants. I myself question that we can find Humic Substances in composts. There are similar decomposed organic matters “humic-like” matters but they have no real humic structure. Especially not having quinon and lacton groups.

1.1.1 HUMIFICATION

In the first step of decomposition of the organic matter a chemical-biological aerob-anaerob oxidation starts. In this phase the biomass is under water surface. In this dynamic balanced process the basic compounds of Humic Substances are forming from the aromatic compounds like lignins, tannins, flavonoids, glycosides etc. - and their derivatives. Other parts of the residues - proteins, cellulose, starch - leave the biomass as NH3, CO2, H2S, CH4, H2O. The hydrocarbon and protein compounds decompose quite fast during the Humification process and their derivatives bond weakly to Humic Substances.
The main precursor molecules of Humic Substances are the lignin compounds. It is important to state that “lignin” and “fulvic acid” is not the same! Lignin does not have any biological activity. The main functional groups are metoxy and few hydroxyl. Some producers sell lignosulphonates as fulvic acid so ruins the reputation of fulvic acid! There is big difference!
The natural waxes and resins cannot decompose and become part of the insoluble Humin matter. Further in the Humification pathway the aromatic (polyphenol) molecules transform to oxiquinon-hydroxi-carboxyl structures and undergo a polymerization and micella formation process.

In coal chemistry it is stated that formation of 1 meter coal needs minimum 10 meter of plant biomass.

The analysis of Humus compounds show different easily decomposing hydrocarbons, proteins and nitrogen containing molecules. It does not mean of course that all of them are Humic Substances. That is why it is so important to make difference between the terms HUMUS and HUMIC ACID.

Summarizing we can say that in the first phase of Humification the big molecules decompose into smaller so called building block molecules while in the second phase they reorganize to Humic Substances.

1.1.2.COAL FORMATION

When the biomass deposits are overlaid with inorganic-soil mineral layers than the coal formation is beginning. The temperature and pressure are increasing. Under this anaerobe condition the biological activity practically stops and dehydration (-H2O) decarboxylation (-COOH) and dehydrogenation (-H) processes are the main chemical reactions. The polymer molecules containing C-O-C bonds transform to
C-C aromatic (antracen) bonds.
During these transformations the carbon content of compounds changes as follows:

Wood 50% Peat: 55-60% Lignite: 65-70%
Black coal: 80-90% Antratcit: 80-98% DIAMOND: 100%

The Coal Formation process may turn back or may stop under exceptional geological conditions. This happens when the biomass deposits go up to the earth's surface or air and water move into the deposit layers (earth-quake etc.). These kind of deposits are reoxidized.
These reoxidized -conserved- layers can be considered the best quality raw materials for the production of Humic Acid based products. These oxidized (reoxidized) deposits are named as leonardite in the international literature (after professor Leonard, who was a geologist). At the same time it must be mentioned that there are only some leonardite deposits on the Planet. One of the best quality is in Hungary.

1.3. HUMIC ACID SOURCES IN NATURE

There are many sources of Humic Substances in Nature.

SOIL: The commonly known continuously renewing Humus source. The Humus content of the upper 20-30 cm soil layers are generally 1-5 %. But the Humic Acid content of the Humus is only 10-30%.

WATERS: Natural ground waters generally contain certain amount of Humic Substances especially Fulvic Acids. The yellowish brown color of waters are coming from Humic Substances dissolved from soil and other organic sources.

COMPOSTS A popular form of Humus production. The bio-humus and humus names of composts are misleading because the Humus content is not exceeding a good quality soil.

SAPROPELS Humic Acid containing organic matter on the bottom of some rivers and lakes as the decomposition product of plants and some microorganisms, planktons, algae in waters. Humic Acid content is about 10-20 %.

PEAT The first step of humification process in nature. Humic Acid content is about 10-50 %. As raw material has great importance related to some balneological applications - medical, thermal waters - where the medical effects are related mainly to their Humic Substance content. But we have to emphasise that peat as a raw material contains several pollutions having an open surface-for example birds, insects, air pollution, chemicals etc.

SHILAJIT (Mumio) Plant and algae origin biomass found in the mountains of inner-Asia. The Humic Acid content of these deposits can be 40-60%. Shilajit is not a sterile source sometimes contaminated with environmental pollution and contains several non-humic waxes and resins.

LIGNITE, BROWN COAL In the normal coal formation process lignites contain 20-40% Humic Acids while brown coals contain 10-30 % Humic Acid. The extraction of Humic Substances from these deposits is not economical.

LEONARDITE Under certain exceptional geological conditions Humic Acids may be conserved in highly oxidized form. The Humic Acid content of these Leonardite deposits can be 50-80%. These are the economically extractable Humic Acid sources.

1.4. REGULARLY USED PHRASES RELATED TO HUMIC SUBSTANCES

The international literature uses several phrases related to humus and organic matter and humic acids. These terms are not always used consequently. Here I try define the most frequently used terms:

HUMUS: The collecting name of organic matter in soil containing humic acids and non humified organic residues.

HUMIC SUBSTANCES: Collecting name of humic acid, fulvic acid, himatomelanic acid and humin matter. Completely humified organic matter. Soluble in alkaline (Na+, K+, NH4+) solutions.

HUMIC ACIDS (plural): Collecting name of humic acid and fulvic acid. Alkaline extractable fraction of Humic Substances.

HUMIC ACID (single) The fraction of Humic Substances that is alkaline soluble but insoluble in acids. This fraction is soluble in the pH range of 7-14.

FULVIC ACID: The smallest molecular weight fraction of Humic Substances. Soluble in alkaline and also in acidic solutions (pH=2-14)

HIMATOMELANIC ACID: This fraction of Humic Substances is soluble in alcohol and glycerine.

HUMATES: Different salts (Fe-humate or K-humate etc.) of Humic Acids

FULVATES: Different salts (Zn-fulvate or Na-fulvate etc.) of Fulvic Acids

HUMIN: Overhumified fraction of Humic Substances. This fraction is not soluble even in strong alkaline liquids.


You want me to keep going?
 
2. STRUCTURE OF HUMIC SUBSTANCES

During the natural humification the Humic Acid molecules can be found in different chemical environment (metals, bitumens, waxes, proteins, carbohydrates etc.,) At the same time it must be emphasized that depart of these disturbing molecules there exist a chemically clean Humic Acid molecule. Chemically characterized and defined Humic Acid can be extracted (cleaned) independently of their source.

The Humic Substances (Fulvic Acid, Humic Acid, Humin Matter) are practically build up from building blocks. The difference between Humic and Fulvic Acids is the degree of polymerization that is their molecular weight. The literature contains many extremely different molecular weight values about the same Humic Acid samples because authors do not define what they mean Humic Acid.

In nature the monomers may form longer polymers (humic acid, humin) or the polymers may be cross-linked by metal ions or other plant residues or pollutants. The active sites may bound to different natural decomposition molecules of the humification process like proteins, sugar, cellulose, lignin etc. But in the background the basic monomers are existing and we can purify and separate from the contaminating substances. Chemically clean humic (fulvic) molecules can be extracted-separated.
It is similar to the extraction of Vitamin-C. We can extract it from paprika or lemon, if we purify and separate properly we can extract chemically clean ascorbic acid independently of the original source

3. CHEMICAL AND BIOCHEMICAL REACTIONS OF HUMIC
SUBSTANCES

3.1. WATER SOLUBILITY

Water solubility of Humic Substances depends basicly on their molecular weight. Only Fulvic Acid is water soluble. The bigger the molecular weight the worse is the water solubility. The interpretation of this fact can be understood from the model structure. As the polymerization degree is higher the specific number of active sites (hydrophil groups) decreases in the molecule (meqv/gram).
In alkaline solution (Na+, K+, NH4+) the lactone ring opens causing the well known solubility of Humic Acids.

Molecular weight Active sites Specific active sites
Hydrophil groups meqv/gram
One unit 210 3 14,3
Three units 644 8 12,4
Ten units 2000 22 11,0

There is an other factor that influence the water solubility that is the dissolved minerals (metals) in the water (drinking water, natural waters). Most of the Metal-Humic Acid complexes are insoluble in these waters. First of all the dissolved Calcium (Ca++) and Magnesium (Mg++) and Iron (Fe++) ions precipitate the Humic Substances.

3.2. METAL COMPLEXES

The polyvalent cations make Humic Acid insoluble in water. There may be two reasons of precipitation. One is that polyvalent metal ions may crosslink several building units together like a bridge. These big humic acid-metal-complexes become insoluble in water. The other reason is when metal ions bound to the active sites (carboxyl-hidroxyl) blocking the hydrophil groups so making the complex insoluble.
The Fulvic acid-metal complexes are generally soluble in water. The fulvic-metal bounds are not so strong than humic-metal bounds. The reason is the bigger delocalized “free electron” system of humic acid.

The biological activity of Humic Substances is based on their electron and active oxygen transfer capability. In other words we can say Humic Substances are natural electron transfer catalyzators. These molecules are able to take part in the cell respiration chain processes. It means that cells are able to produce more energy in the presence of Fulvic Acid. Humic Acid cannot be uptaken from the intestinal system. This extra energy formed can be used by the living organisms. Basicly it manifest in the stimulation of the immune system. (for example used for the sysnthesys of the important immune system related compounds).

Most important facts regarding biological activity:

a. Fulvic Acid may speed up the cell respiration chain processes which indirectly speed up the processes in the citrate circle. The electron transfer capability of FA stimulate the whole metabolism where the FA molecules take part as catalysators. This is a general effect by which more energy becomes free in cells - not specific stimulation like hormones.

b. The relevant chemical parameter in this process is the free electron concentration or spin concentration (not molecular weight or total acidity). Generally the bigger molecules have better biostimulant activity because the delocalized free electron concentration is bigger. It must be emphacised that “free-electron concentration/molecular weight” curve has a maximum value. This fact is proved in analytical methods (electron-spin resonance ESR) and several biological tests.

c. Fulvic Acids have an optimal concentration in the biostimulation processes. This concentration is different in different living organisms but an optimum always can be registered.

3.3. Antiviral effect

The systematic research for the antiviral effect of Humic Substances started when it turned out by chance that some peat preparations showed a healing effect against the foot-and-moth disease. Further studies proved the virus adsorption and synthesis blocking effect in case of several RNA and DNA viruses as well. Humic Substances showed selective blocking effect against several viruses. The virus adsorption is completely blocked while the penetration is less blocked and the synthesis is hardly blocked. The reason of the adsorption blocking effect is probably the interaction of Fulvic Acid with the positive sites of the virus protein cover. The humate virus complex cannot be adsorbed on the tissues.

3.4. Detoxifying effect

Humic Substances have a definite detoxifying effect against different cell toxins. The uptake of the toxins depends on the dose on the time and on the chemical adsorption circumstances of the stomach and intestine tract. Humic Substances as strong chemical adsorbents are able to inactivate the toxins. Many toxic molecules was studied in animal tests where humic acids proved to be a very effective inactivating factor. For example the liver damaging effect of carbon-tetra-chloride was effectively blocked by humic acid. Surprisingly good liver protecting effect was detected in case of Amanita phalloides mushroom intoxication. The post-mortem liver examination showed that humic acids had better liver protecting effect than any other compounds

3.3. CHEMICAL BONDS WITH ORGANIC AND INORGANIC MOLECULES

The structure of Humic Substances predestinate them to make bonds with almost every kind of chemical and biochemical structures. Humic Acid molecule is a natural poly-hydroxi-carboxyl acid containing quinon and semi-quinon groups and also lactone ring.

a. Inorganic cations: (metals) may bond to HA by ionic, complex, chelate and polar-adsorption bonds. The acidic carboxyl, hydroxyl groups are the most important reaction partners but semiquinon and carbonyl groups may also react. The higher the valence of the metals the stronger is the metal-HA bond. The heavier the molecular weight of metals the stronger is the metal-HA bond. These facts have practical importance in micronutrient supplementation of living organisms. Humic acid is a natural ion-exchanger.

b. Inorganic anions: practically cannot bond directly to HS being negatively charged. Nevertheless through metal bridges these molecules may be bond to Humic Substances with very good efficiency.

c. Organic compounds: the chemical bonds between organic compounds and HA depends on their structure (aromatic, aliphatic, hydrophyl, hydrophobe) and on their charge (positive, negative) Based on the several experiments it can be stated that almost every organic compounds (pesticide residues, antibiotic and medicine residues, proteins, enzymes, vitamines etc.) may bond to Humic Substances.

5. APPLICATION OF HUMIC SUBSTANCES

The chemical structure, the biological activity and the natural origin of Humic Substances predestinate them to become fast growing importance molecules-active ingredients- in the fields of:
Food Supplements, Medicines, Cosmetics, Veterinary, Agriculture, Environmental Protection, Industrial Additives.
 
Fulvic Humic acid and radioactive elements

Radioactive elements have an affinity for Humic and Fulvic acid. They form organo-metal complexes of different adsorptive stability and solubility. Uranium and plutonium are influenced by humic substances as are other polluting metals, each being solubilized and absorbed, thereby annihilating that specific radioactivity.
 
I use shilajit by dabur India. One of the all time greatest ayurveda medicine makers since 1884. Most trusted in India for generations. This has purest shilajit one can get which has lots of good stuff in it . it's best taken with little milk daily
 
I use shilajit by dabur India. One of the all time greatest ayurveda medicine makers since 1884. Most trusted in India for generations. This has purest shilajit one can get which has lots of good stuff in it . it's best taken with little milk daily


Do you take it pre-workout? what do you notice from it?
 
You can take Fulvic acid more than 1 time per day, I take it 2 times per day, I do take it 30min before training with CoQ10, it increases ATP and evening with the chicken embryo extract. Fulvic acid helps to maintain higher concentrations of active CoQ10 and to help mitochondria more efficiently convert fats and sugars into ATP (Adenosine Triphosphate).

Would it be even better to take Fulvic acid with ubiquinol as opposed to CoQ10?
 
Do you take it pre-workout? what do you notice from it?

Warlock matey I sometimes take it preworkout if I am having whey protein or quark cheese or cottage cheese based pre workout meal otherwise I take it with any if the milk based meal. It has anti inflammatory and nootropic effect but I can't differentiate/pinpoint mate tbh because I do take a preworkout drink 20 min or so before weights which does enhance focus and alertness so yes I do feel razor focused and soreness is very well reduced ( but that could be very well from eaa and bcaa ) or perhaps some contribution from shilajit . I do feel it contribute to the over all well being . I fully trust dabur products and they put in the best raws possible and shilajit have both fulvic and humic acids and lots of good minerals like magnesium ( which improves sleep and must for hard training atheletes) . I have noticed my sleep quality has defo improved and I contribute that to shilajit. I love this supplement. Hope it helps.
 
Last edited:
Warlock matey I sometimes take it preworkout if I am having whey protein or quark cheese or cottage cheese based pre workout meal otherwise I take it with any if the milk based meal. It has anti inflammatory and nootropic effect but I can't differentiate/pinpoint mate tbh because I do take a preworkout drink 20 min or so before weights which does enhance focus and alertness so yes I do feel razor focused and soreness is very well reduced ( but that could be very well from eaa and bcaa ) or perhaps some contribution from shilajit . I do feel it contribute to the over all well being . I fully trust dabur products and they put in the best raws possible and shilajit have both fulvic and humic acids and lots of good minerals like magnesium ( which improves sleep and must for hard training atheletes) . I have noticed my sleep quality has defo improved and I contribute that to shilajit. I love this supplement. Hope it helps.

Thank you buddy. I did not know anything about this supplement. I just read a bunch of things about it and I'm impressed by all the benefits. I'm surprised not many talk about it.

I did not read anything about it being better taken with dairy. I'll look into this more.

The only possible negative side I read is a possible effect on hemoglobin, but it does seem to be a great supplement for overall health.
 
I use shilajit by dabur India. One of the all time greatest ayurveda medicine makers since 1884. Most trusted in India for generations. This has purest shilajit one can get which has lots of good stuff in it . it's best taken with little milk daily

Shilajit is one of the most popular product on the market, and is nothing wrong with, however there is 3 other competition, 1 called Primavie, 1 called Hymato 70 in Europe(in the USA FulvicHum) and LaubVFI. All 4 versions are very beneficial , however the Shilajit scored very low in Titanium, Lithium. Also Shilajit contains 2 times more Lead 2mg /kg vs 1mg /kg the others.

Hymato F70 contains 3.14 more Titanium, Lithium 76.6 times more,
Cobalt 2.5 more.

Don`t stop taking the Shilajit or any other form of Fulvic Humic.

How Titanium affects the Body, and its Benefits.

Electricity is constantly flowing throughout the human body. Muscles respond sensitively to minute amounts of this electric current. Human cells are composed of atomic nuclei as well as electronic nuclei. Electronic nuclei emit positive and negative charges that delicate balance each other. In order words, it is probably not an overstatement to say that our bodies are controlled by electricity. However, if for some reasons the positive and negative charges in our cells are upset and the delicate balance them are disrupted, the electric currents in our bodies become uneven and unbalance. This results in such aches and illnesses as stiff shoulders, lower back pain, headaches, dizziness, ringing tone in the ears, diarrhea, constipation, and severe ocular pain.

According to Eastern Oriental medicine, every organ, whether it is the brain, heart, liver or kidney, maintains its own electromagnetic field. When the dedicate balance of these fields are upset the flow of “ki” or life energy, is disrupted, leading to illness.


Titanium.

Titanium is thus extremely effective in correcting the disruptions in a person’s biological electrical currents.

Most people are unaware that lithium is not a drug, but is a naturally occurring mineral from the earth. Just like calcium and potassium, lithium is something that every human body requires for mental and physical health.

Studies show that the mineral lithium can actually rejuvenate and build the grey matter nerve cells in the brain by up to three percent.
 
Thank you buddy. I did not know anything about this supplement. I just read a bunch of things about it and I'm impressed by all the benefits. I'm surprised not many talk about it.

I did not read anything about it being better taken with dairy. I'll look into this more.

The only possible negative side I read is a possible effect on hemoglobin, but it does seem to be a great supplement for overall health.

Probably because in not a prohormone. No, si no any extra benefits by take it with dairy. However it will help to absorb more minerals from the milk.
 
Shilajit is one of the most popular product on the market, and is nothing wrong with, however there is 3 other competition, 1 called Primavie, 1 called Hymato 70 in Europe(in the USA FulvicHum) and LaubVFI. All 4 versions are very beneficial , however the Shilajit scored very low in Titanium, Lithium. Also Shilajit contains 2 times more Lead 2mg /kg vs 1mg /kg the others.

Hymato F70 contains 3.14 more Titanium, Lithium 76.6 times more,
Cobalt 2.5 more.

Don`t stop taking the Shilajit or any other form of Fulvic Humic.

How Titanium affects the Body, and its Benefits.

Electricity is constantly flowing throughout the human body. Muscles respond sensitively to minute amounts of this electric current. Human cells are composed of atomic nuclei as well as electronic nuclei. Electronic nuclei emit positive and negative charges that delicate balance each other. In order words, it is probably not an overstatement to say that our bodies are controlled by electricity. However, if for some reasons the positive and negative charges in our cells are upset and the delicate balance them are disrupted, the electric currents in our bodies become uneven and unbalance. This results in such aches and illnesses as stiff shoulders, lower back pain, headaches, dizziness, ringing tone in the ears, diarrhea, constipation, and severe ocular pain.

According to Eastern Oriental medicine, every organ, whether it is the brain, heart, liver or kidney, maintains its own electromagnetic field. When the dedicate balance of these fields are upset the flow of “ki” or life energy, is disrupted, leading to illness.


Titanium.

Titanium is thus extremely effective in correcting the disruptions in a person’s biological electrical currents.

Most people are unaware that lithium is not a drug, but is a naturally occurring mineral from the earth. Just like calcium and potassium, lithium is something that every human body requires for mental and physical health.

Studies show that the mineral lithium can actually rejuvenate and build the grey matter nerve cells in the brain by up to three percent.

Very good info Emeric. From all of this, I gather Fulvic acid is the best product and option and it's a really good supplement one should take for health and well-being.

Emeric, if one was tight on money, would you say that Shilajit would be a very good addition to everyone's supplement arsenal for health and even performance?
 
Very good info Emeric. From all of this, I gather Fulvic acid is the best product and option and it's a really good supplement one should take for health and well-being.

Emeric, if one was tight on money, would you say that Shilajit would be a very good addition to everyone's supplement arsenal for health and even performance?

Yes, Shilajit or any other Fulvic Humic. I use the one scored the highest.
 
I have tried most supplements but not this one. I will have to look more into it. Thanks for the info everyone :)

Dev when did you start calling people matey ;):D
 

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