"Safer": Moderate Cruise vs Blast/Cruise

[AVelasques911]

Just something that's been on my mind for a while, this would only apply to a guy doing it for lifestyle purposes, obviously if you compete or do this as a living you'll have to blast at times. But hypothetically:

Guy A:
Year Round: 100 Test E/200 Mast E/200 Nandrolone, with exemestane and prami if needed to keep e2/prolactin at proper levels

Guy B;
Cruise: 200 Test E alone for 8 weeks
Blast: 200 Test E, 400mg Masteron, 400 Nandrolone, 50mg Winny ed the last 4 weeks for a total of 8 weeks and back to cruise

I tried to keep the blast pretty conservative and with "safer" compounds, minus winny, but I left Tren and most orals out.

Does anyone think option A is actually a bit "safer".You're on all year but levels are stable and there's no drastic fluctuations back and forth, especially with estrogen. Also, the cumulative dose on a long-term is actually about the same once you add up the time on/time off over a period of say, 12 months.

For the curious on Guy A's protocol:
I did such a low dose of test to let it purely function as TRT and keep e2 low with minimal AI. Deca is a stronger anabolic and it makes more sense for me to have that take care of muscle retention. The Masteron is in there both to combat any bloat but more importantly to hopefully to keep DHN from attaching to DHT receptors (mainly in the brain/penis, mood/"deca dick"). Along with a low dose of caber, I believe, deca dick shouldn't be an issue (I could be wrong).

 

[Bigd50]

TRT, MK677, Proviron, Cialis. Adjust dosages for desired results.

 

[AVelasques911]

TRT, MK677, Proviron, Cialis. Adjust dosages for desired results.

I'm assuming you mean cruise on just Test, let's say 125mg, and by adjust you mean blast, let's say 500-750mg.

But that still leads to what I'm wondering, if that fluctuation of adjusting for desired results is actually more harmful than just staying on year around at a moderate dose with bloodwork checking out ok. In this example let's say 350-400mg of test all year.

Now before people jump all over me, I'm NOT saying this is the healthiest thing to do. I'm comparing it to the blasting and cruising most of us here do. Just the water weight fluctuation and the estrogen re-adjustment is enough to make me think.

Like I said, I think 200Test/200Mast blasted into 400test/400mast is damn near perfect for a non-competitor and probably as close to safe as you'll get with gear. But I know that jump and drop between the two, my skin breaks out, I'm a bit moody, I have to adjust my AI which is easy but takes a week or two to level out with the Enanthate ester.

So that's what I've been wondering, if that constant spike in hormones, then huge drop, then spike, then drop is actually more damaging than just staying on around 400-600mg year round.

Now there's always the heart issues with nandrolone. The thing is, the cumulative dose at the end of the year for someone who say blasts deca for say 400mg 12 weeks and comes off for 12 weeks is about the same as someone who stays on for 200mg all year. So does that break actually do anything when we're just going to "blast" it with a pretty high dose all over again?

This isn't an argumentative thread btw. It's something I've genuinely wondered because the times I have the most issues is when I'm shuffling things around, either lowering or raising doses or adding things in/taking things out.

 

[thethinker48]

I don't really look at total mg count as an indicator of risk.

Each compound has it's own unique profile, especially when it comes to it's effects on your bloodwork. 200 mgs of tren > 400 mgs nandrolone when it comes to damage imo so mg count is useless in a way

Only your own bloodwork can tell you what compounds are safer for you to run than others. And even that is a picture only seen through a partial lense. It doesn't indicate long term genetic risk factors like clotting, heart abnormalities and/or density of lipoproteins that is genetic, history of mental health disorders which can be exasperated by steroid use (this I feel gets neglected way too often, these drugs affect the brain big time!)...

None of this stuff is healthy, but we try our best to take the path of least resistance for health reasons.

If I could go back, I'd run bloodwork which each compound that I used separately to see what it's actually doing, and make my decisions from there. Can be quite pricey obviously but is invaluable information long term.

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[juggy38]

I wouldn’t want mast in year round.....prostate health wise...if you wanted to super cruise I’d do

150-200mg test E
150mg deca
Mk 677 on and off depending on fasted BG


“Blast”
Add in 400-500mg NPP and double the test. Maybe a few weeks of an oral depending on goals

But I’m just an above average gym rat sooo

 

[Delt123]

Hard to tell, I think 8 week cruises are pretty short. I'm inclined to say the 8week blasts/ cruises with those compound will be more detrimental for your health. The year round cruise doesn't sound healthy either tbh.

Running winny each blast would definitly be a no no for me

 

[pickapeck]

Main thing is blood work. You're looking to see what you can get away with. things that I watch and basic general rules for myself,

1. Hct: red cells; You want to keep it under 50 on cruise and under 53 on blast. Keep it down with blood donation.

2. AST/ALT: liver; You want to keep these no more that 20% higher than normal range. Stay away from liver stressors.

3. Creatinine: kidney; Keep under 1.5. We have more muscle than normal and eat a lot of protein so it can run high. You might have to come right off or keep it to TRT 100 mg if you are running high. Keep BP under control with meds if necessary.

4. LDL, HDL and triglycerides: blood lipids and heart health; HDL 40 or higher, LDL under 150 and triglycerides under 150 on cruise. Total cholesterol should stay under 210 at all times. AAS will skew these so on blast they will go to shit. So it is important to get these under control on cruise or TRT or off. Cardio helps. Statins help but I don't like stations at all. GW501516 can help but safety is unknown. Probably a good rule of thumb for lipids is an HDL:LDL ratio of 0.20 or better for most of the year. Combat triglycerides by consuming fish oil, moderating carbohydrates and using healthy fats. Other than that, limit use of orals and trenbolones.

 

[AVelasques911]

I wouldn’t want mast in year round.....prostate health wise...if you wanted to super cruise I’d do

150-200mg test E
150mg deca
Mk 677 on and off depending on fasted BG


“Blast”
Add in 400-500mg NPP and double the test. Maybe a few weeks of an oral depending on goals

But I’m just an above average gym rat sooo

No man, all input is valuable and I appreciate it.

I've been bodybuilding for 23 years but I only cycled for about 4 years so I consider myself a newb.

It does go to show we are all different, I wouldn't double the test, I actually want it as low as possible. My mood, drive, libido is SO much better on low test and a high dht. It's only three months but 200 Mast along with .5mg cialis nightly has my PSA on the lower side.

I wouldn't do Deca without Mast or Proviron in there though. I'm pretty convinced that the issue isn't just progesterone but also that it turns into DHN which is mild but binds to the DHT receptors (largely in the penis and brain, where people mostly tend to complain about problems with 19-Nors). It's just my theory that keeping a pure androgen in there and then taking low-dose caber if needed might do better than having higher test and having to deal with the estrogen. My goal is to have test in there purely around 600-800ng/dl so it can do it's functions, all the bodybuilding stuff I want handled by other compounds.

Luckily this is all doctor monitored, my doc is this super cool older lady and totally down with monitoring me monthly all year. That's kind of why I'm trying to push it a bit, 400mg of masteron is more than I'd cruise on but I want to see how well 10mg of nightly cialis controls PSA, I want to see if my theory that Masteron is more important than test for controlling Deca sides is true or not. I won't know until next year but I'll have input every month. So far 200 test/200 mast for three months and everything is perfect, but it's only three months.

I'm going way off topic here, but I'm excited about this. First time I've found a doctor that was actually pretty cool and I could be open about this stuff and didn't yell at me but instead said "well, let's do this together and see if your body can handle it and then you can make your own decision"

 

[GreenTLB6]

8 weeks isn’t long enough of a cruise for things to get right bloodwork wise. I have witnessed this myself. At 8 weeks markers are usually just getting back into range. So right when they are getting healthy you’re going to head right back into a blast? Keep doing that year round and you mine as well blast year round bc you’re never spending enough time without the chemicals in your system to ever be close to healthy.

 

[tjitsu]

8 weeks isn’t long enough of a cruise for things to get right bloodwork wise. I have witnessed this myself. At 8 weeks markers are usually just getting back into range. So right when they are getting healthy you’re going to head right back into a blast? Keep doing that year round and you mine as well blast year round bc you’re never spending enough time without the chemicals in your system to ever be close to healthy.

This is genetic, again bloods will tell!

 

[AVelasques911]

8 weeks isn’t long enough of a cruise for things to get right bloodwork wise. I have witnessed this myself. At 8 weeks markers are usually just getting back into range. So right when they are getting healthy you’re going to head right back into a blast? Keep doing that year round and you mine as well blast year round bc you’re never spending enough time without the chemicals in your system to ever be close to healthy.

Yeah but it's a tricky situation any time we want to discuss health combined with legit, drug-involved bodybuilding. There is no "healthy" in this sport, just seeing how close to healthy you can get.

I know guys that just cruise for 4 weeks then go back on for 12, 8 is actually a fairly long break.... not health wise, but muscle-dysmorphia wise. But most of these guys that are making money off of this are doing time on/time off at the most. Which leads to my original point of, for the adult male NOT making money off of this but who is still interested in pushing the envelope a bit and looking above average and is making an adult decision knowing he may be taking years off his life. Is it healthier to blast hormones to extreme levels, then drop them to basically TRT one and off all year, or is it actually better to cruise on what some might say is a bit too much but keep the hormone levels steady all year.

 

[thethinker48]

Yeah but it's a tricky situation any time we want to discuss health combined with legit, drug-involved bodybuilding. There is no "healthy" in this sport, just seeing how close to healthy you can get.

I know guys that just cruise for 4 weeks then go back on for 12, 8 is actually a fairly long break.... not health wise, but muscle-dysmorphia wise. But most of these guys that are making money off of this are doing time on/time off at the most. Which leads to my original point of, for the adult male NOT making money off of this but who is still interested in pushing the envelope a bit and looking above average and is making an adult decision knowing he may be taking years off his life. Is it healthier to blast hormones to extreme levels, then drop them to basically TRT one and off all year, or is it actually better to cruise on what some might say is a bit too much but keep the hormone levels steady all year.

TRT and then blasting higher doses is different than coming off entirely and blasting higher doses.

Yoyoing levels when you come back to the higher end of normal is not the same as restarting your HPTA which gets trashed each time you blast by coming off.

The only time I can see someone saying they need higher doses year round is when they need to maintain an abnormally large amount of muscle tissue (think Jordan Peters, 400 test, 400 primo is his cruise)...most guys will maintain most of what they have (short of the glycogen and "the look") using TRT with a proper diet+ intensity in the gym, and rebuild back whatever they lost fairly quickly when stepping on the gas.

If you want to run more just to look better year round; that's a personal decision (hell I'm guilty of this just like anybody). But I don't believe it's something that can be justified by the theory that your levels coming down to a replacement dose can be unhealthier.

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[Lilleo187]

I like to cruise with tren and never blast it high.

 

[Dancho]

you are overthinking the things. add some gh. i dont see a problem running both stacks year round(minus the winny).

 

[armada]

Just something that's been on my mind for a while, this would only apply to a guy doing it for lifestyle purposes, obviously if you compete or do this as a living you'll have to blast at times. But hypothetically:

Guy A:
Year Round: 100 Test E/200 Mast E/200 Nandrolone, with exemestane and prami if needed to keep e2/prolactin at proper levels

Guy B;
Cruise: 200 Test E alone for 8 weeks
Blast: 200 Test E, 400mg Masteron, 400 Nandrolone, 50mg Winny ed the last 4 weeks for a total of 8 weeks and back to cruise

I tried to keep the blast pretty conservative and with "safer" compounds, minus winny, but I left Tren and most orals out.

Does anyone think option A is actually a bit "safer".You're on all year but levels are stable and there's no drastic fluctuations back and forth, especially with estrogen. Also, the cumulative dose on a long-term is actually about the same once you add up the time on/time off over a period of say, 12 months.

For the curious on Guy A's protocol:
I did such a low dose of test to let it purely function as TRT and keep e2 low with minimal AI. Deca is a stronger anabolic and it makes more sense for me to have that take care of muscle retention. The Masteron is in there both to combat any bloat but more importantly to hopefully to keep DHN from attaching to DHT receptors (mainly in the brain/penis, mood/"deca dick"). Along with a low dose of caber, I believe, deca dick shouldn't be an issue (I could be wrong).

No one can answer your question. We all have different responses. There are way too many factors involved to give a blanket response as to which is better.

 

[rmtt]

No man, all input is valuable and I appreciate it.

I've been bodybuilding for 23 years but I only cycled for about 4 years so I consider myself a newb.

It does go to show we are all different, I wouldn't double the test, I actually want it as low as possible. My mood, drive, libido is SO much better on low test and a high dht. It's only three months but 200 Mast along with .5mg cialis nightly has my PSA on the lower side.

I wouldn't do Deca without Mast or Proviron in there though. I'm pretty convinced that the issue isn't just progesterone but also that it turns into DHN which is mild but binds to the DHT receptors (largely in the penis and brain, where people mostly tend to complain about problems with 19-Nors). It's just my theory that keeping a pure androgen in there and then taking low-dose caber if needed might do better than having higher test and having to deal with the estrogen. My goal is to have test in there purely around 600-800ng/dl so it can do it's functions, all the bodybuilding stuff I want handled by other compounds.

Luckily this is all doctor monitored, my doc is this super cool older lady and totally down with monitoring me monthly all year. That's kind of why I'm trying to push it a bit, 400mg of masteron is more than I'd cruise on but I want to see how well 10mg of nightly cialis controls PSA, I want to see if my theory that Masteron is more important than test for controlling Deca sides is true or not. I won't know until next year but I'll have input every month. So far 200 test/200 mast for three months and everything is perfect, but it's only three months.

I'm going way off topic here, but I'm excited about this. First time I've found a doctor that was actually pretty cool and I could be open about this stuff and didn't yell at me but instead said "well, let's do this together and see if your body can handle it and then you can make your own decision"

I have been with the same doc for 20+ years who has this attitude. I've never been a heavy user. But I did get put on blast by him when I tried tren the first time.

But for me....its been TRT of 100mg of Test weekly, then roughly twice a year I bump up test to 200mg, add in NPP at 200mg, and once even added in 200mg of Primo on top of that. I will go 8-10 weeks....then back down to Trt levels.

Other than that, I use GW and the last 24 months I've ran MK off and on.

Before that it was TRT and 2-3ius of gh year round. Also between my work and my personal insurance....I'm getting labs every 3 months. 2 comprehensive labs and full physicals, and 2 labs to see where my lipids, A1C, and other general health markers.

But be totally honest with your doctor. That's all mine asked of me, and we've been good since the start.

It all comes down to how you respond. And that changes with age.

When I was young...i just wanted to be huge! Now I just want to be healthy.....but look better than most people in my age range. And if that means being 20lbs lighter than what I was initially shooting for...then so be it.

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[LATS]

No man, all input is valuable and I appreciate it.

I've been bodybuilding for 23 years but I only cycled for about 4 years so I consider myself a newb.

It does go to show we are all different, I wouldn't double the test, I actually want it as low as possible. My mood, drive, libido is SO much better on low test and a high dht. It's only three months but 200 Mast along with .5mg cialis nightly has my PSA on the lower side.

I wouldn't do Deca without Mast or Proviron in there though. I'm pretty convinced that the issue isn't just progesterone but also that it turns into DHN which is mild but binds to the DHT receptors (largely in the penis and brain, where people mostly tend to complain about problems with 19-Nors). It's just my theory that keeping a pure androgen in there and then taking low-dose caber if needed might do better than having higher test and having to deal with the estrogen. My goal is to have test in there purely around 600-800ng/dl so it can do it's functions, all the bodybuilding stuff I want handled by other compounds.

Luckily this is all doctor monitored, my doc is this super cool older lady and totally down with monitoring me monthly all year. That's kind of why I'm trying to push it a bit, 400mg of masteron is more than I'd cruise on but I want to see how well 10mg of nightly cialis controls PSA, I want to see if my theory that Masteron is more important than test for controlling Deca sides is true or not. I won't know until next year but I'll have input every month. So far 200 test/200 mast for three months and everything is perfect, but it's only three months.

I'm going way off topic here, but I'm excited about this. First time I've found a doctor that was actually pretty cool and I could be open about this stuff and didn't yell at me but instead said "well, let's do this together and see if your body can handle it and then you can make your own decision"

I do agree and gave talked about this on a couple podcasts that deca dick can be remedied with a dose of mast.. The ability of mast to displace the dhn at the receptor diffinitely can reverse the erectile ussues associated with DECA.. Now proviron , in my opinion, ISNT as effective.. Better than nothing but still not as effective as mast in regards to its involvment at the receptor.. But it may be effective for some..

 

[Dvo36]

I’ve tried several different combos and decided on TRT with 2IUs of GH.

 

[icedemon]

I was on 500mg/weekly of Test Cyp for the last 5 years up until July of this year. My body pretty much normalized over time. Pretty much, it felt like I was on trt levels after the first year. I'm back to blasting/cruising now to allow my body to refresh and take a break.