Atherosclerosis and atorvastatin(Lipitor)

[Knight9]

A family member of mine was recently put on atorvastatin(90 days ago) and I just recently found out about it. Prior to going on HDL was 54, LDL around 130 I believe...but the reason the doctor prescribed atrova was because of testing they ran that showed more plaque in the arteries than 2016 when the test was last conducted. Obviously it wasn't a big deal 3 years ago, but 3 months ago it was either enough or at a rate where the doctor thought it should be prescribed.

I really want to know if this is a bad thing and if I should warn him off the drug. Ever since, it seems he has more pain/inflammation and does not handle a few drinks as well.

BTW 90 days of atorva put his HDL around 60...and lowered LDL and triglycerides a bit...but they were OK numbers prior to starting it. It was specifically prescribed for the plaque discovered.

 

[Delt123]

Interesting. Those cholesterol Numbers weren't bad to start with tbh. What is his/her age?

Dont really know if it will reverse plaque tbh but I'm keen to see other members with more knowledge their opinion

 

[Knight9]

Interesting. Those cholesterol Numbers weren't bad to start with tbh. What is his/her age?

Dont really know if it will reverse plaque tbh but I'm keen to see other members with more knowledge their opinion

Age is a male...68..will be 69 this year.

Has had issues with gout and things that resemble neuropathy pain and bruising in his feet(and swelling) but he has changed his lifestyle in the last 4-5 yrs and avoided type 2 without meds. Has controlled his Hb1ac from problematic to manageable.

 

[chemical engineer]

A lot of doctors put themselves on low dose for maintenance including my own. He told me both his parents died of heart disease. I have heart disease with a side of diabetes in the family. Being on trt I think it’s a smart choice for me. When I diet hard I can get my total around 100. My hdl is 43 with Lipitor. Combing lifestyle and genetics it could be a smart choice.

 

[thethinker48]

Did they ever run a LDL particle test and an Apo B test?

Lipoproteins aren't necessarily bad, they're just carriers for lipids. This is something even doctors are very misinformed it.

Many times risk of CAD is there regardless of a normal LDL-c panel because they don't take into account the particle size of the lipoprotein. As they go through the circulation and through the hepatic process of remodeling and/or restructuring; it's the propensity of small dense Lipoproteins that are according many in this field of study a more accurate predictor of coronary artery disease.

I'm on mobile, but I'll find and link that AACC study that compared both Apo B and LDL P to LDL C and found both of these means of testing to be superior to LDL C for finding cardiac risk. Apo B testing was I believe around even in the 70s; since it's a molecule found universally across all lipoproteins, it'll show up as an indicator of small dense LDLs.

ALL of this is heavily debated in the medical community, but I'd say combining these factors with inflammation, and you get a pretty good idea of cardiac risk in somebody. We've done a better job at finding, fixing and improving techniques of CAD treatments than figuring out what and why is the big reason behind it; and that's more of an indicator of how complex this age driven process really is.

Just my thoughts.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

 

[Knight9]

A lot of doctors put themselves on low dose for maintenance including my own. He told me both his parents died of heart disease. I have heart disease with a side of diabetes in the family. Being on trt I think it’s a smart choice for me. When I diet hard I can get my total around 100. My hdl is 43 with Lipitor. Combing lifestyle and genetics it could be a smart choice.

The dose prescribed was 20mg once daily.

 

[warlock]

A lot of doctors put themselves on low dose for maintenance including my own. He told me both his parents died of heart disease. I have heart disease with a side of diabetes in the family. Being on trt I think it’s a smart choice for me. When I diet hard I can get my total around 100. My hdl is 43 with Lipitor. Combing lifestyle and genetics it could be a smart choice.

What dosage do you use?

Do you find lipitor to be better than crestor?

 

[nothuman]

A family member of mine was recently put on atorvastatin(90 days ago) and I just recently found out about it. Prior to going on HDL was 54, LDL around 130 I believe...but the reason the doctor prescribed atrova was because of testing they ran that showed more plaque in the arteries than 2016 when the test was last conducted. Obviously it wasn't a big deal 3 years ago, but 3 months ago it was either enough or at a rate where the doctor thought it should be prescribed.

I really want to know if this is a bad thing and if I should warn him off the drug. Ever since, it seems he has more pain/inflammation and does not handle a few drinks as well.

BTW 90 days of atorva put his HDL around 60...and lowered LDL and triglycerides a bit...but they were OK numbers prior to starting it. It was specifically prescribed for the plaque discovered.

Age is a male...68..will be 69 this year.

Has had issues with gout and things that resemble neuropathy pain and bruising in his feet(and swelling) but he has changed his lifestyle in the last 4-5 yrs and avoided type 2 without meds. Has controlled his Hb1ac from problematic to manageable.

You mentioned he has gout. I know atherosclerosis and heart failure are not the same thing but Probenecid may be useful to him if he isn't already on it. May be worth a look.
https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/320990.php

I'm sure you already told him to use Vitamin K and to drink pomegranate juice for the plaque. Hopefully, you also told him to use Ubiquinol with the statin since that depletes CoQ10, which I'm sure you already know. Hopefully he trusts you enough to listen to you. Most people never listen to me when I tell them these things sadly.

Don't know enough about the actual statin he is using to comment specifically on that.

 

[MR. BMJ]

GotGame has recommended Atorvastatin for this purpose. Maybe he'll see this thread. I think he too was taking Ator 3-4 days (EOD?) for himself.

 

[aphextwin]

I’m sure Knight has told him about those supplements. The guy has a ton of knowledge.

 

[Stewie]

There's some very intriguing recent in-vivo research using Beta-Cyclodextrin that appears to promote atherosclerotic regression. There's been a Phase 1 clinical trial using the Alpha form of Cyclodextrin focused on lipid parameters. The publication of findings hasn't been released yet to move on to Phase 2. Or at least as far as I know.

Being that Beta-Cyclodextrin is a very good excipient (vehicle of drug transport) this could benefit the uptake and bioavailability of Coq10 or Ubiquinol several fold from the beating statins inflict on thee ole mevalonate pathway mucking-up mitochondrial nutraceutical depletion. I'd toss in some L-carnitine, too.

Realistically, the quantity of his HDL is really meaningless if their functionality is subpar. Numbers mean nothing in the big picture.

 

[bigsonbitch]

I run Lipitor year round at 20mg a day whether I'm running a blast or a trt cruise. Keeps my ldl low.
I believe everyone who uses over the age of 40 should take this precaution

 

[gotgame]

I run Lipitor year round at 20mg a day whether I'm running a blast or a trt cruise. Keeps my ldl low.
I believe everyone who uses over the age of 40 should take this precaution

I am glad there is less statin hate then usual that i find on ProM.

No one wants to take a medication they dont need....but if you have risk factors or you already are on the path of athero then statins can help.

I wish there was better options and eventually there will be...but at this time i am a very strong advocate of using statins for prevention and even low dose for treatment.

Yes i do take lipitor 3x a week 20mg each time. I have a VERY strong family history of CAD. Father was in amazing shape.. 6'2 190lbs.. lean and muscular. Ran half marathons...avid pickleball player... lipids were always within range as was blood pressure. Didnt drink, smoke or any drugs...yet had massive MI and needed 5 grafts...

I do all i can to prevent it and yet still be in the bodybuilding type lifestyle to a degree. its tough... but when making decisions take emotion out of it..

I "want to think" meat is healthy...but i know i should limit it and look for other healthier protein sources.. i know AAS and GH is not health and it would probably be healthier to bring up levels via other means ( AI, clomid, hcg) but at the very least get scanned and see what is going on.... no an EKG and blood work is not enough..

 

[warlock]

I am glad there is less statin hate then usual that i find on ProM.

No one wants to take a medication they dont need....but if you have risk factors or you already are on the path of athero then statins can help.

I wish there was better options and eventually there will be...but at this time i am a very strong advocate of using statins for prevention and even low dose for treatment.

Yes i do take lipitor 3x a week 20mg each time. I have a VERY strong family history of CAD. Father was in amazing shape.. 6'2 190lbs.. lean and muscular. Ran half marathons...avid pickleball player... lipids were always within range as was blood pressure. Didnt drink, smoke or any drugs...yet had massive MI and needed 5 grafts...

I do all i can to prevent it and yet still be in the bodybuilding type lifestyle to a degree. its tough... but when making decisions take emotion out of it..

I "want to think" meat is healthy...but i know i should limit it and look for other healthier protein sources.. i know AAS and GH is not health and it would probably be healthier to bring up levels via other means ( AI, clomid, hcg) but at the very least get scanned and see what is going on.... no an EKG and blood work is not enough..

Nice to see you posting

Do you mind clearing your inbox? Thanks

 

[aphextwin]

There's some very intriguing recent in-vivo research using Beta-Cyclodextrin that appears to promote atherosclerotic regression. There's been a Phase 1 clinical trial using the Alpha form of Cyclodextrin focused on lipid parameters. The publication of findings hasn't been released yet to move on to Phase 2. Or at least as far as I know.

Being that Beta-Cyclodextrin is a very good excipient (vehicle of drug transport) this could benefit the uptake and bioavailability of Coq10 or Ubiquinol several fold from the beating statins inflict on thee ole mevalonate pathway mucking-up mitochondrial nutraceutical depletion. I'd toss in some L-carnitine, too.

Realistically, the quantity of his HDL is really meaningless if their functionality is subpar. Numbers mean nothing in the big picture.

Are you talking about injectable L-carnitine? What about just using ALCAR?

 

[bigsonbitch]

I am glad there is less statin hate then usual that i find on ProM.

No one wants to take a medication they dont need....but if you have risk factors or you already are on the path of athero then statins can help.

I wish there was better options and eventually there will be...but at this time i am a very strong advocate of using statins for prevention and even low dose for treatment.

Yes i do take lipitor 3x a week 20mg each time. I have a VERY strong family history of CAD. Father was in amazing shape.. 6'2 190lbs.. lean and muscular. Ran half marathons...avid pickleball player... lipids were always within range as was blood pressure. Didnt drink, smoke or any drugs...yet had massive MI and needed 5 grafts...

I do all i can to prevent it and yet still be in the bodybuilding type lifestyle to a degree. its tough... but when making decisions take emotion out of it..

I "want to think" meat is healthy...but i know i should limit it and look for other healthier protein sources.. i know AAS and GH is not health and it would probably be healthier to bring up levels via other means ( AI, clomid, hcg) but at the very least get scanned and see what is going on.... no an EKG and blood work is not enough..

Statins get a bad rap...I've tried the natural supplement route and they just don't work for me. The way I look at it is we are willing to take these harsh compounds that can cause damage but afraid of a statin. Never understood that thinkng
My cholesterol just came back at 134 LDL 89 and I was in a nice blast 4 months
Plus I'm 47

 

[gotgame]

Statins get a bad rap...I've tried the natural supplement route and they just don't work for me. The way I look at it is we are willing to take these harsh compounds that can cause damage but afraid of a statin. Never understood that thinkng
My cholesterol just came back at 134 LDL 89 and I was in a nice blast 4 months
Plus I'm 47

Statins get a bad rap...I've tried the natural supplement route and they just don't work for me. The way I look at it is we are willing to take these harsh compounds that can cause damage but afraid of a statin. Never understood that thinkng
My cholesterol just came back at 134 LDL 89 and I was in a nice blast 4 months
Plus I'm 47

exactly! Taking things that are known to cause liver, renal, heart damage... contents could cause infection... elevated blood pressure...not really sure what may be injected at times.... do bulking cycles eating like crap just to get in more calories.. injecting all types of experimental peptides and meds... but ohh noo a statin!! you will die if you take a statin!


I am on a few boards and i dont post much as AAS dont really interest me much anymore about the day to day type questions. but i do like to look at peoples scans, blood work, health issues and how to mitigate the negatives of AAS use. I believe the trend is more towards performance enhancement knowledge with understanding the risk.

10 years ago everytime i mentioned negatives ppl would be like "show me the bodies!" quoting an article....yea bro..ive seen plenty of bodies as have many other people..its you ( the community in general) who dont want to see them.

 

[Stewie]

Are you talking about injectable L-carnitine? What about just using ALCAR?

Ideally injecting would be better suited with L-carnitine for bioavailability purposes over oral delivery without the inclusion of an excipient such as BD (Beta Cyclodextrin). Given that BD's inclusion complexes helps enhance the bioavailability of poorly hydrophilic compounds, such as L-carnitine.

This goes without saying, injection compliancy with geriatrics is pretty low. Most people don't like injections, let alone older individuals.

As for ALCAR, yeah it's mito supportive too.

 

[swim15]

Docs like to put everyone on statins but, IMO, they’re one of the most overprescribed drugs and I wouldn’t ever use them with the side effect profile. There’s better alternatives between supplements, diet manipulation, and exercise

 

[bigsonbitch]

Docs like to put everyone on statins but, IMO, they’re one of the most overprescribed drugs and I wouldn’t ever use them with the side effect profile. There’s better alternatives between supplements, diet manipulation, and exercise

I agree docs over prescribe them.... Diet and exercise should be the first combat to cholesterol.
but they def have their benefits and they work...and they work great.
The side effect thing I believe gets blown out of proportion..people who are at high risk and bodybuilders who take high amounts for years absolutely should take them. again if your a user or abuser, statins and BP meds should be part of your daily regiment with other supps