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Kidneys...15 years of bloodwork that may help you

Flex500

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Registered
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May 31, 2011
Messages
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Hi all- Due to a terrible experience I had in 2005 I'm obsessed with my Kidney values, spending thousands a year on tests and appts (more on that below). Anyway thought you'd find this interesting....

June 2005; 22 yrs old
250lbs (drug free, think perma bulker super fat)
Creatinine: 1.56
Bun: 15
no urine tests done
all other bloods normal, except ldl cholesterol elevated
Notes: Was sent immediately to the hospital for dialysis, was told I probably had less than a year to live, met with a grief counselor and patient advocate. I denied dialysis. Let's just say this got really weird and various rights of mine were violated. Legal action was taken that had a positive outcome. Best I not say more.

August 2005
254lbs drug free
Creatinine 1.42
Bun 13
Spot Urine Test Normal
Ultrasound Normal

June 2006; 23 years old
262lbs, not drug free (think 500mgs test type of thing)
Creatinine: 1.48
Bun: 18
Spot Urine Test Normal
all other bloods normal
BP high 140/80

'07-'10 was pretty much same thing as above. I did avoid bp meds but then started them in 2011.

July 2011; 28 yrs old
238lbs, not drug free (2-3 cycles a year still in the 500mgs range)
Creatinine 1.35
Bun: 14
Spot Urine Normal
all other bloods normal
bp highest ever @ 145/84
Put on 10mgs lisinopril

September 2011
235lbs, ~cruising on 200mgs test
creatinine: 1.55
Bun 14
All bloods normal
spot urine test normal
24 urine normal

September '11-2014 creatinine did stay around 1.35-1.55. Lisinopril does impact creatinine and I did see a 15% bump. All urine tests normal. Did about 30 spot urine tests during that time.

Starting doing cystatin c below. Note I used different labs so the results are a bit challenging and confusing. Also note in 2014 i started taking synthroid @ 100mcg/day. Thyroid dysfunction runs rampant in my family. However, the other challenge is thyroid dysfunction can really throw cystatin c so it also makes it a bit challenging for me.



January 2015 33yrs old
225lbs ~200-250 test and 200mast
Creatinine 1.29
Bun 20
Cystatin C: .85
urine test normal
24 hour urine normal
taking 15mgs lisinoprol from here on out

June 2015
228lbs 200 test
Creatinine 1.48
bun 12
cystatin c: .74
spot urine test normal
expect small bump in creatinine due to increased lisinopril

2016 January
220lbs 400 test/400 mast
creatinine: 1.37
Bun 10
Cystatin C: .86

2016 October
220 lbs 300 test
creatinine 1.46
bun 11
Cystatin C: .61

2017 January
215 lbs OFF ped's
creatinine 1.49
bun 8
Cystatin C: .88

2017 August
231 lbs test and eq don't know dose
creatinine 1.38
bun 10
Cystatin C: .76

2018 March
222 lbs test ~200-300mgs
creatinine 1.51
bun 17
Cystatin C: .46 We pretty much tossed this out as it doesn't fit with any other results

2018 July
229 test 200, tren 150/week, mast 300/week
creatinine 1.29
bun 12
cystatin c: .85

February 2019
225 test 300 deca 200
Creatinine 1.42
Bun 10
spot urine test normal
cystatin c .59

RETOOK CYSTATIN C in February 2019: Note that labcorp changed reference range from .53-.98 to .63-1.16 and stated my future results will be 10-15% higher. I'm not a research guy but they said the industry is trying to "standardize the assay". For all the labs I've done cystatin c I've seen reference ranges of .5-1, .55 to .98, .8-1.2, .75-1.15. So, again it is a little weird. My personal results are also a little crazy likely due to thryoid dysfunction.

I do go to a nephrologist and unfortunately have to pay out of pocket due to so many tests and multiple kidney docs giving me a thumbs up my insurance basically said "dude we wouldn't pay for someone without cancer to see an oncologist." So touche' i guess.

Some friendly notes from my nephrologist:

1. All my bloodwork is normal/optimal. His note was we don't generally see that (well basically never) if there is a kidney issue.

2. I get ALL bloods. I mean c reactive protein, vit d, uric acid, etc. All is normal. My guy loves CRP. I'm usually 0.59-0.79

3. His biggest note, to point #1, is you've got to look at the entire health picture. He told me he is inundated with 20 year old football players with perfect bloodwork in great health told they are in kidney failure. He mentioned it is a focus in medicine to give better guidance to GP's on when to refer, noting a 20 year old with pristine bloods with a 1.4 creatinine doesn't need to go to a nephrologist off one reading.

4. Plot numbers over time. They are pleased that overall my creatinine has somewhat gone done even with the addition of lisinopril

5. Cystatin C kicks ass...but thyroid dysfunction can skew it big time


Lot of info just thought I'd pass it along. I didn't post even half of my bloodwork but if you average all bloods (well over 50 the last 15 years) my creatinine averages around 1.45 and is trending even to down with tick upwards after starting lisinopril or after dose increase. Accounting for a 10-15% increase from lisinopril we are pleased with it.

All urine tests (spot and 24 hr) were always completely normal.
 
just as an fyi I always get a spot urine test done I just didn't feel like typing out "spot urine normal" on each one. I often get those randomly since they are like $12. Had around 24 just last year (yes...I know it's excessive). All are always normal, no protein in urine ever.

I am incredibly interested in Cystatin C. For me, I'm always in the normal/reference range but my doc always cautions me with my thyroid issue. I've seen it as low as .39 (which is almost certainly not right) to .85.

.39 would be, on many labs, half of the lowest number on the reference range lol. These fluctuations are likely due to thyroid issue so we do take it with a bit of a grain of salt for me, personally.
 
I'd be interested in many of your thoughts (or questions). I know Stewie and a few others are geniuses with this stuff. Believe Stewie is also big on cystatin c so I'd be curious his thoughts on cyst c, for me, with an actual issue, and for bbers in general who often abuse thyroid drugs and its implication on cystatin c testing.
 
Are you saying the thyroid dysfunction throws the Cyastatin C off or is it the use of T4 to correct it that throws the test off?
 
Hi all- Due to a terrible experience I had in 2005 I'm obsessed with my Kidney values, spending thousands a year on tests and appts (more on that below). Anyway thought you'd find this interesting....

June 2005; 22 yrs old
250lbs (drug free, think perma bulker super fat)
Creatinine: 1.56
Bun: 15
no urine tests done
all other bloods normal, except ldl cholesterol elevated
Notes: Was sent immediately to the hospital for dialysis, was told I probably had less than a year to live, met with a grief counselor and patient advocate. I denied dialysis. Let's just say this got really weird and various rights of mine were violated. Legal action was taken that had a positive outcome. Best I not say more.

August 2005
254lbs drug free
Creatinine 1.42
Bun 13
Spot Urine Test Normal
Ultrasound Normal

June 2006; 23 years old
262lbs, not drug free (think 500mgs test type of thing)
Creatinine: 1.48
Bun: 18
Spot Urine Test Normal
all other bloods normal
BP high 140/80

'07-'10 was pretty much same thing as above. I did avoid bp meds but then started them in 2011.

July 2011; 28 yrs old
238lbs, not drug free (2-3 cycles a year still in the 500mgs range)
Creatinine 1.35
Bun: 14
Spot Urine Normal
all other bloods normal
bp highest ever @ 145/84
Put on 10mgs lisinopril

September 2011
235lbs, ~cruising on 200mgs test
creatinine: 1.55
Bun 14
All bloods normal
spot urine test normal
24 urine normal

September '11-2014 creatinine did stay around 1.35-1.55. Lisinopril does impact creatinine and I did see a 15% bump. All urine tests normal. Did about 30 spot urine tests during that time.

Starting doing cystatin c below. Note I used different labs so the results are a bit challenging and confusing. Also note in 2014 i started taking synthroid @ 100mcg/day. Thyroid dysfunction runs rampant in my family. However, the other challenge is thyroid dysfunction can really throw cystatin c so it also makes it a bit challenging for me.



January 2015 33yrs old
225lbs ~200-250 test and 200mast
Creatinine 1.29
Bun 20
Cystatin C: .85
urine test normal
24 hour urine normal
taking 15mgs lisinoprol from here on out

June 2015
228lbs 200 test
Creatinine 1.48
bun 12
cystatin c: .74
spot urine test normal
expect small bump in creatinine due to increased lisinopril

2016 January
220lbs 400 test/400 mast
creatinine: 1.37
Bun 10
Cystatin C: .86

2016 October
220 lbs 300 test
creatinine 1.46
bun 11
Cystatin C: .61

2017 January
215 lbs OFF ped's
creatinine 1.49
bun 8
Cystatin C: .88

2017 August
231 lbs test and eq don't know dose
creatinine 1.38
bun 10
Cystatin C: .76

2018 March
222 lbs test ~200-300mgs
creatinine 1.51
bun 17
Cystatin C: .46 We pretty much tossed this out as it doesn't fit with any other results

2018 July
229 test 200, tren 150/week, mast 300/week
creatinine 1.29
bun 12
cystatin c: .85

February 2019
225 test 300 deca 200
Creatinine 1.42
Bun 10
spot urine test normal
cystatin c .59

RETOOK CYSTATIN C in February 2019: Note that labcorp changed reference range from .53-.98 to .63-1.16 and stated my future results will be 10-15% higher. I'm not a research guy but they said the industry is trying to "standardize the assay". For all the labs I've done cystatin c I've seen reference ranges of .5-1, .55 to .98, .8-1.2, .75-1.15. So, again it is a little weird. My personal results are also a little crazy likely due to thryoid dysfunction.

I do go to a nephrologist and unfortunately have to pay out of pocket due to so many tests and multiple kidney docs giving me a thumbs up my insurance basically said "dude we wouldn't pay for someone without cancer to see an oncologist." So touche' i guess.

Some friendly notes from my nephrologist:

1. All my bloodwork is normal/optimal. His note was we don't generally see that (well basically never) if there is a kidney issue.

2. I get ALL bloods. I mean c reactive protein, vit d, uric acid, etc. All is normal. My guy loves CRP. I'm usually 0.59-0.79

3. His biggest note, to point #1, is you've got to look at the entire health picture. He told me he is inundated with 20 year old football players with perfect bloodwork in great health told they are in kidney failure. He mentioned it is a focus in medicine to give better guidance to GP's on when to refer, noting a 20 year old with pristine bloods with a 1.4 creatinine doesn't need to go to a nephrologist off one reading.

4. Plot numbers over time. They are pleased that overall my creatinine has somewhat gone done even with the addition of lisinopril

5. Cystatin C kicks ass...but thyroid dysfunction can skew it big time


Lot of info just thought I'd pass it along. I didn't post even half of my bloodwork but if you average all bloods (well over 50 the last 15 years) my creatinine averages around 1.45 and is trending even to down with tick upwards after starting lisinopril or after dose increase. Accounting for a 10-15% increase from lisinopril we are pleased with it.

All urine tests (spot and 24 hr) were always completely normal.

If you're physiological with your thyroid parameters this shouldn't skew the results, if I recall correctly.

As can GH will skew the results in a dose dependent manner.
 
Are you saying the thyroid dysfunction throws the Cyastatin C off or is it the use of T4 to correct it that throws the test off?
Changes to your thyroid function in general; that's why you have to be careful pulling a cystatin c panel while running growth hormone; it'll skew the picture and not give one a clear picture of what's going on.

"Thyroid dysfunction has a major impact on CysC levels. Therefore, thyroid function has to be considered when CysC is used as a marker of kidney function. In contrast to creatinine concentrations, CysC levels are lower in the hypothyroid and higher in the hyperthyroid state as compared with the euthyroid state."

It's a very cool and useful test, but just like anything; it's a chess match where lots of factors have to be considered before coming to a conclusion. As Dr Serrano says: A monkey could read a blood test.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
 
If you're physiological with your thyroid parameters this shouldn't skew the results, if I recall correctly.

As can GH will skew the results in a dose dependent manner.

Thank you! I have to be honest I've had a tough time following the research. It appears in the hypothyroid state cys c is lower and then when meds are administered it goes up (which I think is actually the opposite of creatinine?)

Generally speaking my thyroid blood markers are stable as is my dose of thyroid meds. My cyst c (if you drop one off highs and lows) seems to settle in .78-.84 range, on average. But I get random, freaky low numbers. It's like it's always in the .8's and then I'll get five tests in a row of .43-.62. It also doesn't seem to coincide with creatinine. I've had a 1.68 creatinine with .49 cysc and a 1.29 creatinine with a .88 cys c.

In some of those cases the reference range was .65-.75 on the low so at times i'm almost half the low which seems really odd.
 
lisinopril can increase creatine???

im on 40mg a day and my creatinine came back at 1.23, does that mean it would be lower if i would take a lower dose?
 
Changes to your thyroid function in general; that's why you have to be careful pulling a cystatin c panel while running growth hormone; it'll skew the picture and not give one a clear picture of what's going on.

"Thyroid dysfunction has a major impact on CysC levels. Therefore, thyroid function has to be considered when CysC is used as a marker of kidney function. In contrast to creatinine concentrations, CysC levels are lower in the hypothyroid and higher in the hyperthyroid state as compared with the euthyroid state."

It's a very cool and useful test, but just like anything; it's a chess match where lots of factors have to be considered before coming to a conclusion. As Dr Serrano says: A monkey could read a blood test.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


ahh thanks man! There is research out there but obviously not as much data as creatinine (or as easy to find). As I noted above my cysc often does not correlate, and many times does the opposite of my creatinine. IE super low creatinine reading (for me) and a higher, but still normal cysc


Also, my uric acid is 4.2
A1c is 4.6 (reference 4.8-5.6 with 5.7+ pre diabetic)
fasting BG 77
AST 24
ALT 30
 
lisinopril can increase creatine???

im on 40mg a day and my creatinine came back at 1.23, does that mean it would be lower if i would take a lower dose?

Yes sir, quite a few studies on it honestly and well known to docs. It is not necessarily an indicator of lowered GFR though and important to stay on the ACE inhibitor for BP control.

Believe it rises and settles by the two-ish week mark and does not continue to rise and rise.

I know my nephrologist doesn't like to take people off but if it raises over 30% he may take action. Mine, we think, went up about 15% if you average it out.

When I come off it (which I've done for bloods out of curiosity) I see at least a 10% up to 20% drop in creatinine.
 
Last edited:
Are you saying the thyroid dysfunction throws the Cyastatin C off or is it the use of T4 to correct it that throws the test off?

From the research I have seen it is lower in the hypothroid state and then will increase with the use of something like synthroid and then if all stable and controlled should settle.
 
Yes sir, quite a few studies on it honestly and well known to docs. It is not necessarily an indicator of lowered GFR though and important to stay on the ACE inhibitor for BP control.

Believe it rises and settles by the two-ish week mark and does not continue to rise and rise.

I know my nephrologist doesn't like to take people off but if it raises over 30% he may take action. Mine, we think, went up about 15% if you average it out.

When I come off it (which I've done for bloods out of curiosity) I see at least a 10% up to 20% drop in creatinine.

thanks for that info...i had no idea.

my bp is high even when not on, so i take 40mg along with norvasc at 10mg daily.
it raises slightly when on, but not so much where its a concern.

thank you
 
thanks for that info...i had no idea.

my bp is high even when not on, so i take 40mg along with norvasc at 10mg daily.
it raises slightly when on, but not so much where its a concern.

thank you

no worries i'm the same. I was always a little high on or off and don't really go up much when on, although, my usage i pretty laughable to most.
 
This is a great example of how doctors misread the kidney marker creatinine. If you understand how it works and why they use it, you can easily see how easily it can be misunderstood.

Here is a bit about how it works, if we ASSUME everyone is producing about the same amount of creatinine in the body, then we can look at blood levels and estimate how well the kidneys are clearing creatinine. This works perfectly for the vast majority of people who ARE producing about the same amount of creatinine. However, there is a very large segment of people who produce significantly more, and so it seems like their kidneys aren't working as well, when in fact they are working fine, they just have more creatinine to deal with, often significantly more. Creatinine doesn't hurt the kidneys, the kidneys don't have particular trouble processing creatinine, it is just something they process at a relatively constant rate...
 
This is a great example of how doctors misread the kidney marker creatinine. If you understand how it works and why they use it, you can easily see how easily it can be misunderstood.

Here is a bit about how it works, if we ASSUME everyone is producing about the same amount of creatinine in the body, then we can look at blood levels and estimate how well the kidneys are clearing creatinine. This works perfectly for the vast majority of people who ARE producing about the same amount of creatinine. However, there is a very large segment of people who produce significantly more, and so it seems like their kidneys aren't working as well, when in fact they are working fine, they just have more creatinine to deal with, often significantly more. Creatinine doesn't hurt the kidneys, the kidneys don't have particular trouble processing creatinine, it is just something they process at a relatively constant rate...

Great post and right on man. I know it drives my nephrologist nuts because he said he is inundated with referrals from GP’s with absolute picture perfect blood markers and BP and it’s often super fit guys, no diabetes or anything else and they get referred for an “emergency appt” because their creatinine is 1.5 on a one time lab.

He told me one poor kid was so frantic they gave him Xanax for a short time he started having panic attacks about his creatinine lol. He sees em, does some tests and they are on their way.

He did tell me the profile of a bber WITH kidney issues is typically this...

10-20+ year heavy steroid user
Uncontrolled bp for years
Protein in urine even after abstaining from exercise
Vastly overweight
High A1C and overall BG issues is quite common
Very high creatinine 1.8+ with astronomically high BUN
Trashed lipid profile

He likes Cystatin C but he said so many bbers have yo-yo thyroid function and use hgh it makes it tough.
 
Great post and right on man. I know it drives my nephrologist nuts because he said he is inundated with referrals from GP’s with absolute picture perfect blood markers and BP and it’s often super fit guys, no diabetes or anything else and they get referred for an “emergency appt” because their creatinine is 1.5 on a one time lab.

He told me one poor kid was so frantic they gave him Xanax for a short time he started having panic attacks about his creatinine lol. He sees em, does some tests and they are on their way.

He did tell me the profile of a bber WITH kidney issues is typically this...

10-20+ year heavy steroid user
Uncontrolled bp for years
Protein in urine even after abstaining from exercise
Vastly overweight
High A1C and overall BG issues is quite common
Very high creatinine 1.8+ with astronomically high BUN
Trashed lipid profile

He likes Cystatin C but he said so many bbers have yo-yo thyroid function and use hgh it makes it tough.

Although it's a much easier interpretational if you take into consideration that almost every 'bodybuilder' consumes very large amounts of protein, some may not be sufficiently hydrated and chances are they beat the bejesus out of some intense weight training within a short period of time before their lab's. <--- which all will skew a creatinine/eGFR assay.

Cystatin-C/eGFR not so much. A well versed clinician would be able differentiate the the physiological-supraphysiological parameters of one's thyroid and IGF1. The aforementioned of hydration, protein consumption and prior weight training won't skew these results.
 
Last edited:
Although it's a much easier interpretational if you take into consideration that almost every 'bodybuilder' consumes very large amounts of protein, some may not be sufficiently hydrated and chances are they beat the bejesus out of some intense weight training within a short period of time before their lab's. <--- which all will skew a creatinine/eGFR assay.

Cystatin-C/eGFR not so much. A well versed clinician would be able differentiate the the physiological-supraphysiological parameters of one's thyroid and IGF1. The aforementioned of hydration, protein consumption and prior weight training won't skew these results.

Amen...seems like the consensus is cysc is the way to go with outlier populations.
 
Although it's a much easier interpretational if you take into consideration that almost every 'bodybuilder' consumes very large amounts of protein, some may not be sufficiently hydrated and chances are they beat the bejesus out of some intense weight training within a short period of time before their lab's. <--- which all will skew a creatinine/eGFR assay.

Cystatin-C/eGFR not so much. A well versed clinician would be able differentiate the the physiological-supraphysiological parameters of one's thyroid and IGF1. The aforementioned of hydration, protein consumption and prior weight training won't skew these results.


Hey Stewie what is the link between hydration and protein in urine??
 
You mean dehydration?

I have a question for you as well. Sorry dude...you are just well versed with this stuff so you get the questions and honestly a lot of kidney docs don't seem to understand cystatin c that well from what I've noticed.

I saw my GP and Nephrologist today and they are both thrown by cystatin c numbers. They are always in the reference range but here is a summary after reviewing all tests over 5ish years...

19 Total Cystatin C tests completed

11 of them between .79-.85 (reference range .63-1.16)
8 of the tests were .31-.55

the 8 tests were dispersed evenly. Meaning, I may have 3 tests in the .81 range and then boom I get a 0.41.

I can't find any study of any even single person with cystatin c that low so my nephrologist is thinking it has to do with my thyroid and we throw those outliers away. I take 100mcg of synthroid and have been on that many years. So, it is controlled but my TSH does fluctuate.

any general thoughts? I can't find a single example of cystatin c that low or a reason it would drop like that other than thyroid. I do not take hgh.
 

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