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Keto Diet and the Truth.

Joined
Aug 22, 2018
Messages
63
Is a keto diet better for fat loss than other diets?

One of the reasons why ketogenic diet a diet that usually restricts carbohydrates to less than 50 g per day - is supposed to be better for fat loss is because a higher level of fat burning is observed during ketogenic diet.

But fat oxidation does not equal body fat loss. Your body can be burning tons of fat all day, but if you're still eating more fat than you're burning, you may still get fat.

For example, in a study by Hall et al. (2015) the keto diet had a higher fat burning rate, but the high carb diet led to more fat loss.

In another highly-controlled study by Hall et al. (2016) the subjects in both the keto and high carb group consumed exactly the same amount of calories. Fat loss was the same in both groups, with a trend in acute measurements for fat loss to even slow down during
keto adaptation
.
While some other research points to greater fat loss during ketogenic dieting, in the end the literature as a whole suggests ketogenic and non-ketogenic diets are equally effective for fat loss.

Conclusion: A ketogenic diet is not inherently better for fat loss.

Why keto diet works well for some people

1. Ketogenic diet may suppress appetite more (at least for certain individuals) than a higher carbohydrate diet. As such, a ketogenic diet may be better for some people because they therefore can eat less more easily.

2. Ketogenic diets restrict food choices. This automatically excludes most of the junk foods (as they usually contains carbs) and foods people are likely to overeat on. Food choice restriction can not only lead to eating less, which is the major point of a diet, but also reduce the chance of overeating by eliminating the food that is tempting for most people.
 
Agreed, it doesn't work any better for fat loss. I think people also confuse the less water retention look on keto diets for actual fat loss. ('Hey, I look leaner af, then I also must be')
 
For example, in a study by Hall et al. (2015) the keto diet had a higher fat burning rate, but the high carb diet led to more fat loss.

I think the thyroid would be a major factor here. When some people drop their carbs too low - and the amount is individual - their thyroid just shuts down and makes fat loss almost impossible despite being in a caloric deficit.
 
The largest controlled study that was done in metabolic ward conditions showed that they lost about the same amount of fat when calorie deficits were kept equal.

This is despite insulin levels being measured obviously higher in the higher carb group which kind of debunks the insulin makes you fat hypothesis.


Most of the people in this place are much more serious lifters and are a lot more intelligent than the average dieter when it comes to this kind of thing. Keto simply allows the average Joe with lower discipline to control their appetite better and eat less calories hence causing their weight loss. Although there are a lot of factors involved in the calorie in/out equation, that equation still holds true and always will. That is until human beings become able to defy the laws of thermodynamics.


[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MiUyjMjuLl0&t=4s"]NuSI Hall Study: No Ketogenic Advantage (ICO 2016) - YouTube[/ame]
 
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I think the thyroid would be a major factor here. When some people drop their carbs too low - and the amount is individual - their thyroid just shuts down and makes fat loss almost impossible despite being in a caloric deficit.

Its impossible to make a contest diet naturally without adversely affecting the endogenous production of thyroid or testosterone, no matter if it is keto, low carb or low fat. Anyway, good luck with grating the buttocks by eating many carbohydrates and constantly raising insulin.

In my book there is nothing better than keeping insulin low when goal # 1 is to lose BF.
 
I follow a ketogenic diet for preference when dieting. I do like the less watery look for sure, as i appear leaner. I have a huge sweet tooth and while on a ketogenic diet i dont get those cravings. I do agree with above that keeping insulin levels low does do quite a bit in my opinion. Also cutting out many food choices does help with wanting to eat less
 
just a FYI . . .

For what is worth . . . I was never leaner, never looker better (so I was told)
than when I was I was on a high carbo, low fat, low protein food plan.

Strength as function of body weight was never better, great endurance,
ate all I wanted as long as it with within my macros. I was doing a bunch
of rock climbing then (and still lifting high intensity, 3X per week) but
I found that was getting tendinitis that was not going away (over training?),
but did finally go away when I upped my protein a wee bit (animal sourced),
but nothing crazy like you see guys doing today.

You can get 'cut' and loose fat on a high carbo food plan. My experience
of course.
 
I'm eating 3600 to 4000 calories on a keto diet right now and I can't put fat on me lol. Its like the more fat I eat the leaner I get.
 
I'm eating 3600 to 4000 calories on a keto diet right now and I can't put fat on me lol. Its like the more fat I eat the leaner I get.

What's your height, weight, and waist measurement.
 
no way can i do a keto diet. i have tried and it suuuuuuucks. I can get just as lean or leaner with carbs so why on earth restrict a macro:confused: makes no sense to me. muscle glycogen is kinda niiiiiice:lightbulb:. can maintain strength and size better and not feel like shit:headbang:
-F2S
 
One of the most extreme diets out there. Unless medically or otherwise necessary, why?!?!lol
 
caloric-deficit-not-losing-fat.jpg
 
For what is worth . . . I was never leaner, never looker better (so I was told)
than when I was I was on a high carbo, low fat, low protein food plan.

Strength as function of body weight was never better, great endurance,
ate all I wanted as long as it with within my macros. I was doing a bunch
of rock climbing then (and still lifting high intensity, 3X per week) but
I found that was getting tendinitis that was not going away (over training?),
but did finally go away when I upped my protein a wee bit (animal sourced),
but nothing crazy like you see guys doing today.

You can get 'cut' and loose fat on a high carbo food plan. My experience
of course.

were u on steroids at that time?
 
were u on steroids at that time?

No. I did not start utilizing testosterone until I was over 50.

I was in my mid 30's when what I described occurred.
 
Keto is one way to achieve something I've never seen before.

**broken link removed**
 
Really interesting video posted below for you guys to watch regarding Keto. The table of contents are listed under the video on YouTube so you can jump to different points he discusses. One of the things that I really thought was interesting was At the 4 min mark, he talks about the calories in vs calories out concept and totally destroys the notion that a calorie is a calorie.

January 1 of this year I started a keto diet and I have honestly never lost weight so fast in my life. I was 248 on start date and by February I was 220 and even got down to 216 2 weeks ago. I stopped because that was low enough. And I am now holding weight at about 220-225. Easiest diet I have ever been on. I was contemplating DNP but now realize that this is the ticket for me if I need to melt weight off.

[ame]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jXXGxoNFag4[/ame]
 
Good thread and I agree. Although everyone is different and keto diets can be extremely effective for some people. But are the generally better for fatloss... not at all. There is more to it than overall calories (nutrients) but that (energy in/out) is the main factor for fat gain/loss. A lot of people also overeat carbs so when they change to keto it can be hugely effective for dropping water retention and fat. As a result I think it can be a useful dietary approach for the short term but I much prefer using carbs in my diets. I am tall with long limbs and carb diets make me look much fuller and better in general than using solely protein/fat. I may use keto in the very short term but will always reintroduce carbs.

People also think diets full of carbs are worse for losing fat due to insulin levels. However in one study by Holt et al. (1997) they showed that the insulin response from beef and bread and fish and rice were very similar. So if insulin secretion caused fat gain it would come from protein as well. There is a lot to this though and again everyone is different. Your response to certain diets can change over time due to what you have done before, blood markers (thyroid etc), health, stress, training and drugs. Layne Norton has written about keto vs carb diets in great detail so it's worth checking out.
 
Has ANY top olympian competitors done keto diets? i am a prett big fan of the sport and foloow it fairly well. i cant name 1 bodybuilder in top 10-15 guys in the world that do a keto diet. but all you low level guys think its best lmao.
can anyone name ONE keto genetic guy that became or is a pro? i cant think of one. jay cutler ate shit ton of carb-s. ronnie did too. :lightbulb:
-F2S
 
Has ANY top olympian competitors done keto diets? i am a prett big fan of the sport and foloow it fairly well. i cant name 1 bodybuilder in top 10-15 guys in the world that do a keto diet. but all you low level guys think its best lmao.
can anyone name ONE keto genetic guy that became or is a pro? i cant think of one. jay cutler ate shit ton of carb-s. ronnie did too. :lightbulb:
-F2S

I agree that carb diets are better. Although top guys have done keto. Toney Freeman is an example but it was later in his career. I am definitely not arguing on the side of keto as I think missing out an entire macro from your diet is not the best idea. Although it can be extremely useful in the short term in some circumstances.

Some top guys don't do keto but very low carb diets all the time in prep. I have seen many top pro's talk about going without carbs for weeks but they are also not consuming tonnes of fat either. Although I am sure they are doing keto at times too. Dave Palumbo has a lot of his guys on keto at times as well. He may not have become pro but he certainly destroys most guys who turn pro these days. Many other coaches use keto diets on some of their athletes at times as well. One example would be Matt Porter.

I wanted to add whilst looking at what the top guys in any sport do to attain that level is useful I personally wouldn't look at the top 15 at the Olympia as the gold standard of how to eat for bodybuilding. Granted they are the top guys for a good reason but genetics is a massive factor. A lot of them can eat alsorts of stuff naturally and stay lean. Then on top of that they are on huge amounts of hgh etc. I see a lot of them on IG eating complete shit all the time. Juan morel used to eat 1000's of cals of junk food in his offseason daily amd in contest prep at times. It can still be effective but definitely not ideal for the rest of us to do. Although again I am a carb guy probably more than most. I diet on 500g carbs and usually don't go below 300g most times with 200g being an absolute minimum.
 
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