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Primobolan or primo files
Public domain information from all over the web:
Anabolics 2006 (page 198):
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It possesses an anabolic rating of 88, while Testosterone's anabolic strength rating is 100.
Anabolic/Androgenic Ratio (Range): 88 : 44-57
During a cycle the user should additionally not have much trouble with blood pressure values, as this effect is also related (generally) to estrogen and water retention.
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Methenolone Enanthate (Primobolan Depot) from web:
It’s considered to be the safest and least suppressive, has few side effects and is extremely effective. So why isn’t Primobolan used by every body? The reasons may lie in many of the misconceptions surrounding this incredible drug.
Primobolan does not give fast gains, or more accurately, does not cause a quick increase in water retention, therefore it’s considered “weak”, yet in terms of building solid muscle, it’s one of the most effective steroids available.
All steroids are based on the testosterone molecule and all steroids provide two functions – one, of mimicking androgenic effects within the body. (Basically all “male” attributes – strength, aggression, the ability to grow muscle, etc). And there’s also the “anabolic” effect, in that they recirculate nitrogen (protein) therefore utilizing more of the necessary building blocks needed for tissue growth and repair. Unless sufficient amino acids are present muscle growth will be sub par and in the case of Primobolan this is of utmost significance. You MUST train hard and you MUST eat a lot of protein. THAT, is when you’ll see what Primobolan can do.
The concept behind Primobolan was to have a far greater anabolic to androgenic ratio. The reasoning is not far removed from the original steroid Dianabol, which was formulated to be a “kinder, gentler” form of testosterone. In this way, the athlete can get all the benefits of greater muscle growth without all the detriment and suppression of excess androgens. In the case of Dianabol, it was a good idea yet just it didn’t turn out quite as well as expected. With Primobloan, they got it right.
Primobolan also has a unique fat burning/estrogen blocking capability resulting in “lean gains.” (Leading some people to believe it’s just a “cutter” which is also ridiculous since all steroids are growth drugs). It doesn’t actually burn fat but can prevent more fat from being formed.
Being a DHT derivative (technically it’s DHB) Primobolan blocks SHBG (sex hormone binding globulin) thus preventing estrogen from forming. When using Primobolan you not only do not need to add an anti aromatase it acts as one on its one so if you add testosterone, an anti e may not be required. (Or you may want to add a mild, natural anti e formula such as found in protein Factory’s POST CYCLE).
If you’re wondering if you can do a cycle solely of Primobolan without suppression you’d be mistaken. Although mild, Primobolan is a source of exogenous androgen and after a few weeks the HPTA will begin to shut down and one’s natural T production will be compromised since the androgens in the drugs will not sufficiently replace what’s been lost. Consequently, strength and libido will tank. For that reason, most bodybuilders add some testosterone into a Primobolan cycle.
Primobolan has often been compared to Deca Durabolin – most likely due to the fact that they’re both mildly androgenic. However, Deca’s “nandrolone” qualities are actually more suppressive than straight testosterone. Deca also increases progesterone that causes extreme water retention, which incidentally is often regarded, incorrectly, as muscle growth. Primobolan causes almost no water retention that is why many people feel it isn’t a good “mass” builder, which is probably its biggest misconception. Primobolan is deceptive in that the gains are so clean they aren’t overtly apparent at first — which accounts for another myth that Primobolan takes weeks to “kick in.” That, of course, is nonsense. It begins working within hours, but the results may not be noticeable for a while.
Primobolan can be an outstanding size drug on a bulking cycle, IF…you consume adequate protein. That is the principal on which it is based. It repairs though increased anabolism. Without the food source, the drug has nothing to work with, so if you aren’t committed to training hard and eating a lot of protein, Primo will be a disappointment. But for more advanced trainers, and those who are used to training naturally, Primo will seem like a wonder drug. Which it kinda is.
There is also an oral form of Primobolan that is often overlooked, the reason being, they are probably the most impractical steroids available. Primoblan acetate is not 17 alpha alkylated, therefore they do not stress the liver. Sounds great, eh? The problem is, they’re only bioavailability for about 4 hours, resulting in several dosages throughout the day (and night) in order to maintain stable blood levels. The other problem is the cost. At what usually amounts $2 a pill and a necessity of 8 pills a day, the weekly price will exceed $100 a week for a mild cycle. Therfore, Primobolan tablets are not in large demand. (Though if cost isn’t much of a concern they’re an excellent “safe” choice for a first time user or a “natural” athlete who needs it clear his or her system within a day).
Primobolan is the “Rolls Royce” of steroids – expensive, but worth it. It stacks well with everything and adds increased anabolism to any cycle while keeping blood pressure, cholesterol count and blood platelet within normal range with moderate use. It may also be the only steroid suitable for women, with the exception of Anavar, though Primobolan is safer.
People are concerned with hair loss with the usage of Primobolan but most users claim it’s no harder on the hairline than straight testosterone.
Because of Primobolan’s mild nature some bodybuilders use it as a “bridge” between cycles though that is not recommended since it will further suppress natural testosterone production and make it more difficult to rebound.
Primobolan can be an excellent addition to HRT (Hormone Replacement Therapy) (200 mgs of Primo with 100mgs of testosterone weekly) but it is not available with a prescription in most countries.
mountainman:
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contrary to common opinion, Primobolan really is not a weak steroid, at least not on a milligram for milligram basis. It certainly is not weak in terms of anabolic effect versus side effects. It is a good performer in these regards. However, because the oil solubility of methenolone enanthate is only moderate, preparations are typically of only 100 mg/mL. This can give a psychological impression of not being as strong a compound as more concentrated products.Another likely reason for perceived weakness is that it is most often used for anabolic steroid cycles which deliberately are very conservative. For example, a classic beginner cycle is 400 mg/week Primobolan as the only steroid used. Of course, this does not give extreme gains. But then again neither does 400 mg/weektestosterone! when stacked with other steroids like tren , whinny or masteron you will experiance very lean muscle mass gains that any body builder would be happy with.most people use between 500-1000 mg a week for best results i feel for a male 500-700mg a week is more than enough and for woman 50-100 mg a week.
phreak:
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i think you need to try it and decide for yourself. 800mg a week with a little test base is magic for me... no sides and fantastic gains. primo also has a positive effect on collagen production, which is nice for the tendons considering you will have no water retention... it also has a very limited effect on the cholesterol ratio, which is something everyone should consider crucial as your health is directly related to that!
as someone else mentioned, if you suffer from dht then it is something to avoid.
it truly is the champagne of steroids IMO
tnh:
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I love primo because I am sensitive to sides from just about everything.
I probably wouldn't bother with it if I didn't get EQ anxiety, because otherwise I feel it is a very similar compound in its effects.
bigdaddybone:
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Primobolan and D-bol were Arnold's favorites IIRC...
qbert:
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Primo is untouchable for the finishing touches. When people say you need 1000 mg EW for primo that is just bs. I never go over 600 mg EW and this is my sweet spot. Could I get better gains at say 700-800 mg EW? Maybe. And running 600-1000 mg EW is not like running 400-500 mg EW of Masteron. I have run both compounds together and individually and Masteron is not in the same league as primo for end result effects. Also, I would not run primo by itself. A low dose of testosterone at minimum and you should be very happy.
muscleguys:
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I like EQ, but it jacks up my bp with the rbc increase, and a bit of anxiety. I can do more primo without a problem. I feel you have to do 600-1000 for mass gaining results. And low dose test/some other stuff for synergy.
And that's lean solid retainable mass gains. Not blow up with water, and shrink after cycle mass. Your muscles look fuller, rock hard. With a low dose of test and Eq (for hunger) some anavar, you have a solid cycle. Expensive yes, but I think you save in the long run getting quality, retainable gains and having to do less cycle's in the long run to attain your goals. For me anyway.
No question cheaper stuff will blow you up bigger. But my goals are just solid lean mass these days. Which primo is ideal for and effective at.
bigenough:
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I've ran EQ before, I hate the shit and I'm having the same sides I did with my previous EQ cycles... Hunger through the roof and I get real bad anxiety suddenly! I've never ran primo before but I've ran a ton of masteron in the past... If primo is compairable to mast, I sure don't see any sign of it what so ever.... What made me think this in the first place was the fact that he sent it to me in a 60ml jug... Sent me an email saying they ran out of 30ml jugs, So I got 30ml of primo free? lol... I'm not trying to rag anyone here tho, I've had a long and good relationship with him.... Just a little disapointed I have to change my cycle plans after I had it all planned out. It's not the end of the world, Oh well!
minister:
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Have ran primo a few times over the years , in my case I found out that to see decent results on it gotta stay on for at least 16 weeks and have to run at least 400 mgs a week , to be honest I got the best results at 600 mgs, but it can get expensive, as far as side effects , I agree that they are minimal to none. God bless you bro.
snowpatrol:
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I feel like test is kind of an obvious answer here, so in addition to that (or sometimes in the absence of)
forklift28:
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If you can afford it..run it around 500 to 600mg's with a test base..I love the stuff, but it is like any other AAS..it will shut you down and you will lose some of what you gained..but for the money test deca stack is great for a beginner..start low on dosage's.When you quit growing on that then cycle off and next time up it some more.The basics are what get it done..along with a surplus of good food for mass and recovery.
diesel gear:
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Haven't run primo in ten plus years(expensive in comparison to most)... I ran it on low calories. I loved it for that reason alone. Anything you can make gains on without eating 5000 plus calories is good in my book. I had zero sides and and it was easy to maintain gains... it's all about the tape ...not the scale!
-prep: tren
-offseason: deca/npp (though I'm planning to try primo instead this winter)
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When I do primobolan cycles I'll back-fill insulin syringes since the molecular weight of primobolan is so heavy (this is why primo is most commonly dosed at 100mg/ml) and I'm trying to get my weekly dosage up to around 500-700mg or more.
Primobolan depot, those two words almost give me an orgasm every time I hear them. There are a lot of mixed reviews on primo, most from newbies or guys who don't realize the true benefits of primo.
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dfresh333:
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High primo. All around great with no sides
usmc:
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My body loves Primobolan, my checkbook not so much. When taking Primo I get pronounced vascularity (similar to Adrol without the livwr toxicity and headaches), hard dense grainy muscle(similar to Winni without the joint pain) and my skin honestly improves in appearance with and honest look of a healthy glow.
Primobolan is pricey but upon using some real deal Primo I felt hooked. The price of it might just add to its allure for myself being that I can't always run it.
TNH:
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This is a hard question because everyone reacts so differently do each drug and each drug does such wildly different things.
Tren - This is really an insane compound. Strength, reduction in body fat, and lean tissue for some. I will go as far as saying that this is the one drug that seems to sort of do it all. If it weren't for the sides, one would have a hard time choosing any other drug over tren if you were forced to only be able to use one of them forever.
Test - seems to be a mood drug to me, and not much more.
Increased libido and feelings of well being, but I feel it is a terrible muscle builder when compared to an anabolic like deca or D-bol.
It is predictable with easy to control side effects, but I just don't see much from it in doses higher than 200mg unless you consider bloat, hair growth, and insane libido 'gains'.
Deca - best mass builder out there all around, IMO. Some don't like the 19-nor aspect of it. I have a feeling that if no one suffered from prolactin/progesterone related sides, it would be a major favorite.
D-bol, var, T-bol - why do these all seem almost the same to me? D-bol with an AI seems sort of like Tbol or high dosed var. I made a post earlier to see if anyone could confirm nearly identical results between D-bol w/AI and other non-aromatising orals, and I got no response. I have ran them all, and while I can't say gains were identical, they were pretty damn close. Some may get sides from one that they don't get from another (high dose var gets me a little wired), but they all seem somewhat similar for the most part.
Masteron - Not a standalone, so I can't see it being anyone's favorite. Seems to really be a nice addition to 19-nors for some reason.
I personally would lump winny in with it. They feel similar to me and I like to add them to tren or deca. I think they are worth some strength gains and really compliment some other drugs.
Primo - a beautiful compound. A lean mass builder with virtually no sides even at very high doses. Not many want to spend the money because EQ provides similar gains for less money. I get GABA-ergic sides from EQ, making it non usable for me. I also would not like to run EQ at 1g for very long due to certain sides like increased RBC, while 1g of primo is not a problem at all. It is just an amazing drug in the sense that you feel you are on nothing at all, while tissue is slowly added to your frame without any bloat or other sides.
I would put primo up there as a possible #1 choice, simply because it seems side effect free. If I were to stay on something for life, I would have a hard time choosing something over primo. Best ratio of gains to sides, IMO.
Benny_Da_bull, BTG, FilthyMick and 9 others like this.
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thesyndicate:
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Nothing gives you the hardness, the strength and the pumps of Trenbolone acetate at 75mg/day. But since I will never run Tren without test, that can't be my official answer. I would go with 800mg/week of primobolan. Zero side effects while packing on solid consistent muscle gains. I also get really deep pumps with primo.
The best cycles are a 19-nor, testosterone and a DHT derivative for sure! My favorite cycle I've ever run was a home brew of drostanolone base, test base (suspension) and tren ace.
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swm1972:
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Primo. Nothing makes me look as good as primo.
matt1164:
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I'm really becoming a fan of primo.
musclehead33:
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It's a toss up I like tren but I also like primo.
cashrolling:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KROD View Post
legit primobolan high doses but test is king... love tren a also but after i turned 29 it killed my dick...keep your body , i rather have a hard dick
lol. Same thing here, any how i touch tren my dick is dead, with or without caber, no difference!!!!!!With test prop im a porn start 24/7!!!
adonis89:
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1 - PRIMO
2- TEST PROP
3- MASTERON
bytor:
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Other than test p, primo is my favorite. Zero sides, great look and vascular as hell. Drawback? It's pricey mg to mg.
bo56:
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other then test it has to be primo
theneed:
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Got to be real careful w tren. My cholesterol was always real good and low and all that. Went on 10 week tren ace run - 100- 150mg ED and had bloods done @ the 6 week mark. My bad cholesterol markers were off the charts. I'm not like a pro or anything - WHF am I doing ? Beside my cholesterol being in the bad zone, tren affected my mood/psyche in a bad way. Always mad and agro @ everything.
The most I'll do now is 350mg EW and that is just until it's gone. I now base my cycles on the more friendly anabolics like EQ, primo, mast and some test.
TN
simplyhuge:
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Thanks. Same with me. I think I have been more introverted and depressed with tren. Slightly irritable, but I can handle that part. Gotta try primo and mast.
concreter (3,000 posts):
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Primo, All the muscle none of the sides!
I have 20 bottles from 4 suppliers. 200 mgs of each a week for 25 weeks!!!
I'll be a Glowing sculpture of muscle till winter.
ugadawg91 and Massthetics like this.
trimed1973:
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primo keeps you looking good year round...I know you have to be taking test but it doesn't mean it has to be your "favorite"
concreter:
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I like test at 500 but I weigh 260 so less can be used to support less Mass.
Primo 6-1000mgs and a tic of tren w-proviron to keep the angrogens up.
G.I.Bro, Flexpack215, TLP_Rep and 1 others like this.
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John doe bodybuilding:
But take it from a vet and someone who is a true experienced primo user, it's the shiznit… period.
A lot of negative reviews come from these guys who only deem something as useful if it throws a quick 20 lbs of water and shit weight on them, they strictly go by the scale. These are usually guys with a half-assed physique to begin with, so don't listen to them.
Primo is a physique changer, you may not gain a bunch of weight or add any miraculous benchmark records to your lifts, but with a good diet your physique will transform on primo.
Primo has a high molecular weight, therefore its typically dosed at only 100mg/ml, so you have to inject it a little more frequently. 300mg/wk is a good dose to run, most guys advocate higher amounts in the range of 500-1000mg/wk, but 300/wk will do you nice if you eat good and train hard!!
Primo is probably a better choice for an advanced guy simply because he understands how it works and how it differs from most water retainers/mass builders. I would not recommend it to someone who is not relatively low body fat, but for an already good physique primo is the icing on the cake!!!
Below I've listed a few cycles including primo, and they are some of the best cycles a guy with an already good physique could run. These are geared mostly to getting harder and more defined, I typically stray away from “mass cycles” simply because I'm already big enough and at this point its pretty much all about quality.
4 steroid cycles that include primo
Cycle #1– 300mg/wk primo, 300mg/wk masteron, 200mg/wk test for 10 weeks
Cycle #2- 300mg/wk primo, 100mg/day proviron, 300mg/wk test prop for 10 weeks
Cycle #3- 500mg/wk primo, 200mg/wk deca, 200 mg/wk test for 10 weeks
Cycle #4- 40-60mg/day anavar, 300mg/wk primo, 300 mg/wk test prop for 10 weeks
I'd put those low dose cycles against almost anything for a guy looking to get shredded and hard, and they are not anything that is going to suppress someone for months on end either. Those are very safe and effective cycles.
*** As you see I am not a fan of high dose testosterone, test should be used just enough to stay anabolic and reap the rewards but not overkill driving your cholesterol levels and blood pressure through the roof. Lower dosed test cycles will yield you a much better look, and you won't be fighting water retention either.
If you're someone who is dead set on trying to run a cycle then I'd strongly suggest one of the above, you get what you pay for. HOWEVER, if you don't already look as good as Steve Reeves did naturally, then you shouldn't be running shit!!!
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How Much Testosterone?
Keeping testosterone dosages on the low side is key for developing a rock hard physique with nice lines and aesthetics.
I keep my test low, just enough to stay anabolic in nature. It's not high enough to cause excessive water retention, acne, or the ups and downs most go through when running higher doses.
200mg/week of testosterone works fine for me. I have not been over 200mg/week in probably 2 years now, and I see no loss of size or definition.
Since I keep my testosterone doses lower, there are only certain compounds I will run higher.
I would never run trenbolone at 500mg/week and testosterone at 200mg/week (not that I use it any more anyways).
Something like deca or equipoise can be run higher, but not too significantly. I see nothing wrong with 300mg/week deca alongside 200mg/week test.
Other compounds such as primobolan or masteron can be taken up to 500mg+/week with virtually no unwanted sides while keeping test lower.
Here is My List of Old School Cycles for Badass Results:
ANAVAR, DECA, TEST
Weeks 1-10; 50-100mg/day anavar, 200mg/week test e, 200mg/week deca
MASTERON, TEST, PROVIRON
Weeks 1-8; 500mg/week masteron, 200mg/week test, 50mg/day proviron
PRIMO, TEST
Weeks 1-12; 500-700mg/week primobolan, 200mg/week test
SOLO PRIMO RUN
Weeks 1-12; 1000mg/week primo
CRUISE/CUT RUN WITH ANAVAR, PROVIRON, ECA STACK, TEST
Weeks 1-8; 30mg/day anavar, 50mg/day proviron, 100mg/week test, ECA stack everyday (ephedrine, caffeine, aspirin)
THE EQ KICKER
Weeks 1-2; 800mg/week EQ frontloaded, 200mg/week test
Weeks 3-12; 400mg/week eq, 200mg/week test
WINNY/DECA/TEST (poor mans old school contest cycle)
Weeks 1-4; 200mg/week test, 300mg/week deca
Weeks 5-12; 50mg/day winstrol, 200mg/week test, 300mg/week deca (drop deca at 10 week mark, 2 weeks out from competition, add in anti-estrogen at 8 weeks into cycle)
PRIMO/ANAVAR/DECA/TEST/EXEMASTAINE CONTEST CYCLE
Weeks 1-12; 700mg/week primo, 50-100mg/day anavar, 200mg/week deca, 200mg/week test (drop deca 2 weeks out from show, use arimistane for PCT daily).
That is pretty much how I do things folks. I run those compounds exclusively and see no reason to add in all the other quick-bang bullshit.
How Often Should You Run Steroid Cycles & Stay Healthy?
I have gone back to a traditional way of cycling, 2 cycles/year outside of my normal hormone replacement regimen.
Health is #1 here. Everyone should get bloodwork done to make sure your are healthy before you start any steroid cycle (and you've finished the cycle).
I donate blood as often as I can to keep hematocrit/RBC in check.
Occasionally I run some HCG to keep my nuts right. I run arimistane 2-3 times a week to keep estrogen under control.
I consistently monitor my blood pressure and heart rate. I am usually doing some type of cardio 2-3 times/week at any given time during the year.
Health is #1 here. I would tell anyone to get bloodwork done to make sure things are on the up and up before embarking on any steroid cycle, and after they're done.
Know what you're fucking with before doing any of this. I'm not advocating anyone use steroids here… BUT, if you choose to, what I've listed above is a little safer than what most guys are doing nowadays.
Train hard!
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designbuild:
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The first time I took it was while I was vacationing in Mexico for about two months, it's expensive as hell over there btw!! a 50mg vial is about 15 bucks US at the pharmacy... But I had a friend who worked at the hospital and he came into a lot of them and sold me a shitload for $100, that was my first time there and that's before I found a pharmacy that would sell without a script, the first one I went to wanted 25 for two 50mg rediject decas!!! like a dumbass I paid it... We're talking early 90's shit was hard to come by...
So I took 2 primobolan (100mg) a day and nothing else for about 2 months and I went from 170 to 190lbs quality gains that never went away!! I ate pretty much whatever I wanted too...
My strength also went through the roof! freakish gains, all muscle, the heaviest I had been at that point was a fat 180, but I dropped to 170... I was a lot leaner at 190 than I was at 170... It wasn't my first cycle either, I had done test cyp that got me from 119lbs (I was a boxer at 119lbs) to 160, then I did anadrol about a year later, by itself and gained 20lbs, a lot of fat and water, but my strength really went up!
I've tried Primobolan from a lot of other sources and it just didn't do too much...
aon1:
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I'm running primo 1050 tren 700 with no test for the first time and so far I've had zero issues. So it can be ran with no test if wanted.
gcherry1:
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I love primo. Even running 600mg wk did wonders for me. Everyone is different though. I know guys who run 9-1200mg wk of primo. I guess it depends on the person.
MikeS:
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VERY side effect free even at 800mg. I'm Shaved up top so no hair issues!
A lot like Masterone without the prostate issues.
Flattens out midsection and sharpens everything,
if you are already lean the difference is quite noticeable.
flexpack:
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I run primo at 600-800mg in prep. Yeah hair falls out like my German Shephard but other than that it's worth it. Virtually No other sides and the grainy look it brings when already lean is unmatched
Yomane:
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300mg primo e a week did a number on my hair. Was legit primo that I homebrewed and labmaxed. Not worth it if you have hair. I'm guessing it causes a strong response when bound to hair AR and a weak response to muscles. I'd feel safer running 100mg a week of tren and probably get more results.
allday:
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descriptions don't really do it justice but gives the dry grainy look that comes from a high dose masteron and low dose tren with the fullness that comes from eq.
Kept me much fuller with relative ease when dieting than when I use tren. And no side effects for me. hair is still in tact thankfully.
Lats:
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I remember years ago talking to a guy about primo.. He said it was not a dht.. I argued with him a while then looked it up.. And found its chemically from DHB like eq.. That's why it's confusing to me about the hair loss.. I love primo.. I did notice a bit of shedding after using 600 mgs a week.. But I still have my beautiful lions mane...
tenny and x1xjcramair1x1 like this.
concreter:
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I hold my hair fairly well on Primo.... Mast....Gone in days!!!
Proviron I don't notice much loss either.
But Still, a little Mast really brings out the Striations like no other!
ashop:
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I've ran 1g wk numerous times with little to no side effects at all.
matsuo:
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2 quick questions:
1) people that get hairloss on primo, would you get hairloss in the 400mg/week range?
2) does anybody else think that a lot of the hairloss from primo can be attributed to masteron being sold in place of primo??? I ask because on paper it doesn't look like primo should be too invasive on hairline...DHB (1-test) isn't too harsh on hairline and is very close to primo. Masteron is a cheaper drug and would make sense as a switch because the effects seem to be very similar
nb - (never ran primo but have ran masteron in the past and am debating running primo, mast caused my hair to shed like crazy).
Landmonster likes this.
Lats:
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That's always been my confusion.. People losing hair on primo.. Primo is a dhb.. Same as eq.. Should not cause HAIRLOSS on paper.. But many complain it does.. It could be that it's being substituted with mast etc.. But most primo tested these days has shown legit primo..
Matsuo Munefusa likes this.
bg091593:
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I ran 700mg a week, and hair was falling out. Now I've used masteron probably half a dozen times, from several sponsors, and I've never had hair fall out from it. But that primo was awful for my hairline. Like LATS said it's not really supposed to, but it made mine fall out unfortunately.
Matsuo Munefusa likes this.
***Lats:
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Ok... Here is what I believe is the issue with primo and the hairline.. Primo is very strong binding to the androgen receptor., stronger than most realize.. So the effect on hair in androgen based not from dht..
I called a friend of mine who is very knowledgable about anabolics.. More so than most.. He stated if you want the benefits of primo without the hair issue than the only way you can pull it off is to keep test very low ( like HRT low) and run primo higher.. He stated running primo , because ov its high affinity to the androgen receptor , with high Test is asking for issues Iv prone in that regard.. He runs 700 primo , 200 test cyp, eq 600 mgs.. ( current cycle) .. Said never had issues.. But ran 500 test and 600 primo once and lost hair like crazy.. So maybe he is on to something.. Maybe not..
kscowboy, nickels, Matsuo Munefusa and 1 others like this.
Lats:
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Originally Posted by Matsuo Munefusa View Post
well my idea to run 400mg each for the first decent cycle in years gets thrown out the window with that theory then lol
what do you think about crushing up aldactone tablets in DMSO/gel and rubbing into scalp to try to get the spiro to compete with the DHT receptors in the scalp? (while on primo/decent amount of test). Do you think that has a decent chance of blocking hairloss from primo (say 400mg/primo + 400mg/test per week).
Your friend's idea might have some merit though Lats. Back in the day (way back) when I used to run tren....I found running real low dose test with it would keep side effects down a bit....it seems test amplifies side effects from other hormones??? I don't quite understand how that works across the board or in this specific DHT/primo case....but it sounds "logical" at least
Well the issue would be that the topical solutions are supposed to prevent the conversion to DHT.. Since primo converts to DHB it would not help with primo but WOUld help with those using test.. I never missed with any of the topicals.. But some are under the impression that it products against compiunds like masterone and the like which, of course, is false since they are already in DHT form.. So in this case I don't believe that it would help with primos strong binding to the AR receptor..
Matsuo Munefusa likes this.
srhealth-rachel:
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Standard male Primobolan doses will fall in the 100-150mg per day range. Performance level doses will also fall in the same range. However, many men have reported decent results with as little as 50-75mg per day. Higher dose will cause some disease to your cardiovascular and hepatotoxicity.
abolish the weak:
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I have juiced for several years now, and since avoided primo due to availability and cost. I'm on my first primo run ever, I'm taking 100mg eod and let me tell you guys, it fucking rocks!! You wont notice anything drastic or crazy but the shit will give you a good, hard look if you eat halfway decent and your consistent with your training. I feel good on it as well, I've since dropped my test almost 4-5 wks ago and have not noticed ANY crash. I went from 800mg/wk of T-400 to totally dropping my test and introducing the primo as sort of a bridge type deal. Anyways, not sure if its like this for everyone but I will def continue to use it in the future as a staple for any other cycle. I hear the gains are well kept from it too. Just sharing
I'm sold on it, its relatively safe and effective. No side effects really, just good clean gains. Just make sure you get enough to last you 12-15 wks I'd say. I didn't see much for about the first 3 wks on it, but now it's coming around pretty damn fast. I was always told not to bother with it if you couldn't do at least 5-700mg/wk but 350 mg/wk for me seems pretty damn effective. Excellent bridge gear, excellent!!
BA69:
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BA69
09-14-2011, 01:24 PM
A lot of confusion about primo... It has sides just like everything else. It will shut you down, sure the bounce back is easier than Tren, but all AAS shut you down.
I think the info on Anavar and Primo comes from the early 90's and passed down over the years. Anavar is NOT a weak steroid, one of the strongest mg for mg. Primo is not without side effects. Guys would use 20mg of Var and 200mg of Primo since it was so scarce, or they would use fakes which obviously gave them no sides and very little gains. Anavar is now widely used and good material is available at an affordable price, not 2.5mg tabs at $10 a pop. We know 60-100mg ED is not weak and has strong body recomp changes. Many guys have notices sides from var not previously reported, like decrease in libido, irritabillity, stomach pains, decrease in appetite, sometimes joint pain, liver and cholesterol problems, etc...
Primo is still not widely used. My take as someone who used lab tested primo at 600mg per week;
1-If you are on a budget, don't waste your money. There are far better bangs for your buck.
2-Primo has a UNIQUE cosmetic effect that usually disappears with cessation of the compound.
3-It has a large potential for shedding hair.
4-It definetely contributes to HPTA shutdown.
5-It will not build large amounts of mass.
6-Under 400mg is a waste.
7-It's effects don't seem to be as dependent on what you eat or how much you eat as compared to other steroids like nandrolone.
8-It increases sex drive greatly.
In conclusion, if money is not an issue, Primo is a fun add-on to any cycle, but it will definetely not create structural or permanent skeletal muscle changes.
concreter:
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concreter
09-17-2011, 10:44 AM
Ran test at 3-600mg with 6- 800 primo and had nothing but compliaments all summer. Its great for me at 43 to stay off all the heavy androgens during the active hot summer mnths and still hold the muscle while basically cruising with no side effects and no water retention, pure lean and full muscle
With the help of a little gh + t-4!
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taslajrisi
09-17-2011, 02:39 PM
And let's be real. Mass is mass is mass. If you gain fat, you probably ate too much. If you gained water, its easy to drop. I don't much buy into the quality mass concept anymore. Either you gained muscle or you didn't. How would quality mass be different from shitty mass? Fat? Check your diet. Water? Goes away.
A large part of the mass gained from d-bol or anadrol is actually water inside the muscle. Yes it is larger but it goes away when you stop. The water in muscle, tendons etc. is what helps with workouts, strength, and keeps the joints pain free.
Personally, I love Primo because of the slow pure muscle gains, stimulates the immune system, no water, great nitrogen retention, helps joints, and does not shut the HPTA much at all. Some love it, some think its a waste. I think a lot of older guys like it because its not harsh and works on a low calorie diet pretty good.
TNH:
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TNH
03-21-2012, 09:15 AM
Primo is my favorite steroid.
I ran it most of last year in doses varying from 200-800mg.
I am sensitive to the mental effects of all AAS, but primo does not affect me in any way, even at 800mg. It feels like I am on nothing at all (other than the positive results I see).
I feel it is very underrated.
I no longer use EQ due to its interference with GABA-ergic transmission (causes crippling social anxiety for me). I have ran it before though, and I would say primo is better at putting on mass.
I think too many people are getting other AAS labeled as primo, or they aren't using enough of it.
600-800mg with some NPP and test, and you will grow nicely if you eat enough.
Primo gives me sort of a recomping effect, like a mild tren with no side effects.
I get very vascular and full from it.
sliced:
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I ran 375mg of some primo E and absolutely loved it over the course of 10 weeks. By about 10 days in, no later than 15 for certain, I noticed it's effects and obviously as time went on, so did the progress.
I'm switching things up and using a recommendation by Ross; 300mg Primo E/300mg Primo Ace. Same brand Primo E I used before, but a UGL Primo Ace that I swear by and I cannot wait to commence this on Monday.
At 375mg, I just noticed a crisper look. In regard to how I can explain primo, it makes you look like you are actually on steroids, and it makes you feel like you aren't on steroids. If that makes sense, and to elaborate, it's pretty much gives you the "look" without the retention and gives you the benefits without the sides.
wood4days:
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Haha! I just finished my primo cycle 2 weeks ago. I'm now in day 15 after last pin. Waiting 4 more days till I start pct cycle.
Primo is legit. My first shot was painful. Not the shot it self, but the day after my ass was sore for 2 days. Then every shot after that never hurt. Weird right?
I was doing 400mg primo/week. With 500 test/week. My first cycle.
I started natty 145 lbs 15% body fat. 12 weeks in I was 158 lbs 13% body fat.
Now I'm of gear and maintaining at 154 lbs with a body fat of 12%
I did not focus in cardio during this cycle. Only did cardio twice a week 20min each time.
My next cycle I will do alot of cardio since it ends mid summer.
Pre blood work my testosterone level was 466 with an estrogen level of 16.8
Mid blood work my testosterone level was 5080 and estrogen level 48
Post blood work 2 weeks after last pin my testosterone level is 789 with an estrogen level of 38
Even though I'm off primo now and it's now 15 days after last pin. I'm still beast mode at the gym. I lifting weights and training just as hard as when I was on gear. Lost zero strength. I'm actually pushing a little more off gear. Weird.
While on primo my gains were slow but solid. Strength came gradually and so did the weight. So it wasn't obvious at the gym that I was on gear. 8 weeks in that's when I started getting random compliments at the gym. So I would recommend primo, because it feels like a more natural steady solid gains. You don't get all that water weight. For side effects, I had only a few pimples on my face. Fuck like a bunny. Probably from The test.
Some guys use other gear and it's very obvious. Just 2 months and they blow up 30-40 lbs. Then off cycle they drop 30 lbs lol
Well that's my experience with primo. We will see what happens when I start PCT cycle.
Public domain information from all over the web:
Anabolics 2006 (page 198):
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It possesses an anabolic rating of 88, while Testosterone's anabolic strength rating is 100.
Anabolic/Androgenic Ratio (Range): 88 : 44-57
During a cycle the user should additionally not have much trouble with blood pressure values, as this effect is also related (generally) to estrogen and water retention.
-----------------------------
Methenolone Enanthate (Primobolan Depot) from web:
It’s considered to be the safest and least suppressive, has few side effects and is extremely effective. So why isn’t Primobolan used by every body? The reasons may lie in many of the misconceptions surrounding this incredible drug.
Primobolan does not give fast gains, or more accurately, does not cause a quick increase in water retention, therefore it’s considered “weak”, yet in terms of building solid muscle, it’s one of the most effective steroids available.
All steroids are based on the testosterone molecule and all steroids provide two functions – one, of mimicking androgenic effects within the body. (Basically all “male” attributes – strength, aggression, the ability to grow muscle, etc). And there’s also the “anabolic” effect, in that they recirculate nitrogen (protein) therefore utilizing more of the necessary building blocks needed for tissue growth and repair. Unless sufficient amino acids are present muscle growth will be sub par and in the case of Primobolan this is of utmost significance. You MUST train hard and you MUST eat a lot of protein. THAT, is when you’ll see what Primobolan can do.
The concept behind Primobolan was to have a far greater anabolic to androgenic ratio. The reasoning is not far removed from the original steroid Dianabol, which was formulated to be a “kinder, gentler” form of testosterone. In this way, the athlete can get all the benefits of greater muscle growth without all the detriment and suppression of excess androgens. In the case of Dianabol, it was a good idea yet just it didn’t turn out quite as well as expected. With Primobloan, they got it right.
Primobolan also has a unique fat burning/estrogen blocking capability resulting in “lean gains.” (Leading some people to believe it’s just a “cutter” which is also ridiculous since all steroids are growth drugs). It doesn’t actually burn fat but can prevent more fat from being formed.
Being a DHT derivative (technically it’s DHB) Primobolan blocks SHBG (sex hormone binding globulin) thus preventing estrogen from forming. When using Primobolan you not only do not need to add an anti aromatase it acts as one on its one so if you add testosterone, an anti e may not be required. (Or you may want to add a mild, natural anti e formula such as found in protein Factory’s POST CYCLE).
If you’re wondering if you can do a cycle solely of Primobolan without suppression you’d be mistaken. Although mild, Primobolan is a source of exogenous androgen and after a few weeks the HPTA will begin to shut down and one’s natural T production will be compromised since the androgens in the drugs will not sufficiently replace what’s been lost. Consequently, strength and libido will tank. For that reason, most bodybuilders add some testosterone into a Primobolan cycle.
Primobolan has often been compared to Deca Durabolin – most likely due to the fact that they’re both mildly androgenic. However, Deca’s “nandrolone” qualities are actually more suppressive than straight testosterone. Deca also increases progesterone that causes extreme water retention, which incidentally is often regarded, incorrectly, as muscle growth. Primobolan causes almost no water retention that is why many people feel it isn’t a good “mass” builder, which is probably its biggest misconception. Primobolan is deceptive in that the gains are so clean they aren’t overtly apparent at first — which accounts for another myth that Primobolan takes weeks to “kick in.” That, of course, is nonsense. It begins working within hours, but the results may not be noticeable for a while.
Primobolan can be an outstanding size drug on a bulking cycle, IF…you consume adequate protein. That is the principal on which it is based. It repairs though increased anabolism. Without the food source, the drug has nothing to work with, so if you aren’t committed to training hard and eating a lot of protein, Primo will be a disappointment. But for more advanced trainers, and those who are used to training naturally, Primo will seem like a wonder drug. Which it kinda is.
There is also an oral form of Primobolan that is often overlooked, the reason being, they are probably the most impractical steroids available. Primoblan acetate is not 17 alpha alkylated, therefore they do not stress the liver. Sounds great, eh? The problem is, they’re only bioavailability for about 4 hours, resulting in several dosages throughout the day (and night) in order to maintain stable blood levels. The other problem is the cost. At what usually amounts $2 a pill and a necessity of 8 pills a day, the weekly price will exceed $100 a week for a mild cycle. Therfore, Primobolan tablets are not in large demand. (Though if cost isn’t much of a concern they’re an excellent “safe” choice for a first time user or a “natural” athlete who needs it clear his or her system within a day).
Primobolan is the “Rolls Royce” of steroids – expensive, but worth it. It stacks well with everything and adds increased anabolism to any cycle while keeping blood pressure, cholesterol count and blood platelet within normal range with moderate use. It may also be the only steroid suitable for women, with the exception of Anavar, though Primobolan is safer.
People are concerned with hair loss with the usage of Primobolan but most users claim it’s no harder on the hairline than straight testosterone.
Because of Primobolan’s mild nature some bodybuilders use it as a “bridge” between cycles though that is not recommended since it will further suppress natural testosterone production and make it more difficult to rebound.
Primobolan can be an excellent addition to HRT (Hormone Replacement Therapy) (200 mgs of Primo with 100mgs of testosterone weekly) but it is not available with a prescription in most countries.
mountainman:
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contrary to common opinion, Primobolan really is not a weak steroid, at least not on a milligram for milligram basis. It certainly is not weak in terms of anabolic effect versus side effects. It is a good performer in these regards. However, because the oil solubility of methenolone enanthate is only moderate, preparations are typically of only 100 mg/mL. This can give a psychological impression of not being as strong a compound as more concentrated products.Another likely reason for perceived weakness is that it is most often used for anabolic steroid cycles which deliberately are very conservative. For example, a classic beginner cycle is 400 mg/week Primobolan as the only steroid used. Of course, this does not give extreme gains. But then again neither does 400 mg/weektestosterone! when stacked with other steroids like tren , whinny or masteron you will experiance very lean muscle mass gains that any body builder would be happy with.most people use between 500-1000 mg a week for best results i feel for a male 500-700mg a week is more than enough and for woman 50-100 mg a week.
phreak:
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i think you need to try it and decide for yourself. 800mg a week with a little test base is magic for me... no sides and fantastic gains. primo also has a positive effect on collagen production, which is nice for the tendons considering you will have no water retention... it also has a very limited effect on the cholesterol ratio, which is something everyone should consider crucial as your health is directly related to that!
as someone else mentioned, if you suffer from dht then it is something to avoid.
it truly is the champagne of steroids IMO
tnh:
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I love primo because I am sensitive to sides from just about everything.
I probably wouldn't bother with it if I didn't get EQ anxiety, because otherwise I feel it is a very similar compound in its effects.
bigdaddybone:
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Primobolan and D-bol were Arnold's favorites IIRC...
qbert:
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Primo is untouchable for the finishing touches. When people say you need 1000 mg EW for primo that is just bs. I never go over 600 mg EW and this is my sweet spot. Could I get better gains at say 700-800 mg EW? Maybe. And running 600-1000 mg EW is not like running 400-500 mg EW of Masteron. I have run both compounds together and individually and Masteron is not in the same league as primo for end result effects. Also, I would not run primo by itself. A low dose of testosterone at minimum and you should be very happy.
muscleguys:
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I like EQ, but it jacks up my bp with the rbc increase, and a bit of anxiety. I can do more primo without a problem. I feel you have to do 600-1000 for mass gaining results. And low dose test/some other stuff for synergy.
And that's lean solid retainable mass gains. Not blow up with water, and shrink after cycle mass. Your muscles look fuller, rock hard. With a low dose of test and Eq (for hunger) some anavar, you have a solid cycle. Expensive yes, but I think you save in the long run getting quality, retainable gains and having to do less cycle's in the long run to attain your goals. For me anyway.
No question cheaper stuff will blow you up bigger. But my goals are just solid lean mass these days. Which primo is ideal for and effective at.
bigenough:
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I've ran EQ before, I hate the shit and I'm having the same sides I did with my previous EQ cycles... Hunger through the roof and I get real bad anxiety suddenly! I've never ran primo before but I've ran a ton of masteron in the past... If primo is compairable to mast, I sure don't see any sign of it what so ever.... What made me think this in the first place was the fact that he sent it to me in a 60ml jug... Sent me an email saying they ran out of 30ml jugs, So I got 30ml of primo free? lol... I'm not trying to rag anyone here tho, I've had a long and good relationship with him.... Just a little disapointed I have to change my cycle plans after I had it all planned out. It's not the end of the world, Oh well!
minister:
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Have ran primo a few times over the years , in my case I found out that to see decent results on it gotta stay on for at least 16 weeks and have to run at least 400 mgs a week , to be honest I got the best results at 600 mgs, but it can get expensive, as far as side effects , I agree that they are minimal to none. God bless you bro.
snowpatrol:
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I feel like test is kind of an obvious answer here, so in addition to that (or sometimes in the absence of)
forklift28:
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If you can afford it..run it around 500 to 600mg's with a test base..I love the stuff, but it is like any other AAS..it will shut you down and you will lose some of what you gained..but for the money test deca stack is great for a beginner..start low on dosage's.When you quit growing on that then cycle off and next time up it some more.The basics are what get it done..along with a surplus of good food for mass and recovery.
diesel gear:
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Haven't run primo in ten plus years(expensive in comparison to most)... I ran it on low calories. I loved it for that reason alone. Anything you can make gains on without eating 5000 plus calories is good in my book. I had zero sides and and it was easy to maintain gains... it's all about the tape ...not the scale!
-prep: tren
-offseason: deca/npp (though I'm planning to try primo instead this winter)
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When I do primobolan cycles I'll back-fill insulin syringes since the molecular weight of primobolan is so heavy (this is why primo is most commonly dosed at 100mg/ml) and I'm trying to get my weekly dosage up to around 500-700mg or more.
Primobolan depot, those two words almost give me an orgasm every time I hear them. There are a lot of mixed reviews on primo, most from newbies or guys who don't realize the true benefits of primo.
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dfresh333:
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High primo. All around great with no sides
usmc:
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My body loves Primobolan, my checkbook not so much. When taking Primo I get pronounced vascularity (similar to Adrol without the livwr toxicity and headaches), hard dense grainy muscle(similar to Winni without the joint pain) and my skin honestly improves in appearance with and honest look of a healthy glow.
Primobolan is pricey but upon using some real deal Primo I felt hooked. The price of it might just add to its allure for myself being that I can't always run it.
TNH:
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This is a hard question because everyone reacts so differently do each drug and each drug does such wildly different things.
Tren - This is really an insane compound. Strength, reduction in body fat, and lean tissue for some. I will go as far as saying that this is the one drug that seems to sort of do it all. If it weren't for the sides, one would have a hard time choosing any other drug over tren if you were forced to only be able to use one of them forever.
Test - seems to be a mood drug to me, and not much more.
Increased libido and feelings of well being, but I feel it is a terrible muscle builder when compared to an anabolic like deca or D-bol.
It is predictable with easy to control side effects, but I just don't see much from it in doses higher than 200mg unless you consider bloat, hair growth, and insane libido 'gains'.
Deca - best mass builder out there all around, IMO. Some don't like the 19-nor aspect of it. I have a feeling that if no one suffered from prolactin/progesterone related sides, it would be a major favorite.
D-bol, var, T-bol - why do these all seem almost the same to me? D-bol with an AI seems sort of like Tbol or high dosed var. I made a post earlier to see if anyone could confirm nearly identical results between D-bol w/AI and other non-aromatising orals, and I got no response. I have ran them all, and while I can't say gains were identical, they were pretty damn close. Some may get sides from one that they don't get from another (high dose var gets me a little wired), but they all seem somewhat similar for the most part.
Masteron - Not a standalone, so I can't see it being anyone's favorite. Seems to really be a nice addition to 19-nors for some reason.
I personally would lump winny in with it. They feel similar to me and I like to add them to tren or deca. I think they are worth some strength gains and really compliment some other drugs.
Primo - a beautiful compound. A lean mass builder with virtually no sides even at very high doses. Not many want to spend the money because EQ provides similar gains for less money. I get GABA-ergic sides from EQ, making it non usable for me. I also would not like to run EQ at 1g for very long due to certain sides like increased RBC, while 1g of primo is not a problem at all. It is just an amazing drug in the sense that you feel you are on nothing at all, while tissue is slowly added to your frame without any bloat or other sides.
I would put primo up there as a possible #1 choice, simply because it seems side effect free. If I were to stay on something for life, I would have a hard time choosing something over primo. Best ratio of gains to sides, IMO.
Benny_Da_bull, BTG, FilthyMick and 9 others like this.
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thesyndicate:
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Nothing gives you the hardness, the strength and the pumps of Trenbolone acetate at 75mg/day. But since I will never run Tren without test, that can't be my official answer. I would go with 800mg/week of primobolan. Zero side effects while packing on solid consistent muscle gains. I also get really deep pumps with primo.
The best cycles are a 19-nor, testosterone and a DHT derivative for sure! My favorite cycle I've ever run was a home brew of drostanolone base, test base (suspension) and tren ace.
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swm1972:
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Primo. Nothing makes me look as good as primo.
matt1164:
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I'm really becoming a fan of primo.
musclehead33:
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It's a toss up I like tren but I also like primo.
cashrolling:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KROD View Post
legit primobolan high doses but test is king... love tren a also but after i turned 29 it killed my dick...keep your body , i rather have a hard dick
lol. Same thing here, any how i touch tren my dick is dead, with or without caber, no difference!!!!!!With test prop im a porn start 24/7!!!
adonis89:
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1 - PRIMO
2- TEST PROP
3- MASTERON
bytor:
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Other than test p, primo is my favorite. Zero sides, great look and vascular as hell. Drawback? It's pricey mg to mg.
bo56:
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other then test it has to be primo
theneed:
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Got to be real careful w tren. My cholesterol was always real good and low and all that. Went on 10 week tren ace run - 100- 150mg ED and had bloods done @ the 6 week mark. My bad cholesterol markers were off the charts. I'm not like a pro or anything - WHF am I doing ? Beside my cholesterol being in the bad zone, tren affected my mood/psyche in a bad way. Always mad and agro @ everything.
The most I'll do now is 350mg EW and that is just until it's gone. I now base my cycles on the more friendly anabolics like EQ, primo, mast and some test.
TN
simplyhuge:
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Thanks. Same with me. I think I have been more introverted and depressed with tren. Slightly irritable, but I can handle that part. Gotta try primo and mast.
concreter (3,000 posts):
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Primo, All the muscle none of the sides!
I have 20 bottles from 4 suppliers. 200 mgs of each a week for 25 weeks!!!
I'll be a Glowing sculpture of muscle till winter.
ugadawg91 and Massthetics like this.
trimed1973:
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primo keeps you looking good year round...I know you have to be taking test but it doesn't mean it has to be your "favorite"
concreter:
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I like test at 500 but I weigh 260 so less can be used to support less Mass.
Primo 6-1000mgs and a tic of tren w-proviron to keep the angrogens up.
G.I.Bro, Flexpack215, TLP_Rep and 1 others like this.
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John doe bodybuilding:
But take it from a vet and someone who is a true experienced primo user, it's the shiznit… period.
A lot of negative reviews come from these guys who only deem something as useful if it throws a quick 20 lbs of water and shit weight on them, they strictly go by the scale. These are usually guys with a half-assed physique to begin with, so don't listen to them.
Primo is a physique changer, you may not gain a bunch of weight or add any miraculous benchmark records to your lifts, but with a good diet your physique will transform on primo.
Primo has a high molecular weight, therefore its typically dosed at only 100mg/ml, so you have to inject it a little more frequently. 300mg/wk is a good dose to run, most guys advocate higher amounts in the range of 500-1000mg/wk, but 300/wk will do you nice if you eat good and train hard!!
Primo is probably a better choice for an advanced guy simply because he understands how it works and how it differs from most water retainers/mass builders. I would not recommend it to someone who is not relatively low body fat, but for an already good physique primo is the icing on the cake!!!
Below I've listed a few cycles including primo, and they are some of the best cycles a guy with an already good physique could run. These are geared mostly to getting harder and more defined, I typically stray away from “mass cycles” simply because I'm already big enough and at this point its pretty much all about quality.
4 steroid cycles that include primo
Cycle #1– 300mg/wk primo, 300mg/wk masteron, 200mg/wk test for 10 weeks
Cycle #2- 300mg/wk primo, 100mg/day proviron, 300mg/wk test prop for 10 weeks
Cycle #3- 500mg/wk primo, 200mg/wk deca, 200 mg/wk test for 10 weeks
Cycle #4- 40-60mg/day anavar, 300mg/wk primo, 300 mg/wk test prop for 10 weeks
I'd put those low dose cycles against almost anything for a guy looking to get shredded and hard, and they are not anything that is going to suppress someone for months on end either. Those are very safe and effective cycles.
*** As you see I am not a fan of high dose testosterone, test should be used just enough to stay anabolic and reap the rewards but not overkill driving your cholesterol levels and blood pressure through the roof. Lower dosed test cycles will yield you a much better look, and you won't be fighting water retention either.
If you're someone who is dead set on trying to run a cycle then I'd strongly suggest one of the above, you get what you pay for. HOWEVER, if you don't already look as good as Steve Reeves did naturally, then you shouldn't be running shit!!!
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How Much Testosterone?
Keeping testosterone dosages on the low side is key for developing a rock hard physique with nice lines and aesthetics.
I keep my test low, just enough to stay anabolic in nature. It's not high enough to cause excessive water retention, acne, or the ups and downs most go through when running higher doses.
200mg/week of testosterone works fine for me. I have not been over 200mg/week in probably 2 years now, and I see no loss of size or definition.
Since I keep my testosterone doses lower, there are only certain compounds I will run higher.
I would never run trenbolone at 500mg/week and testosterone at 200mg/week (not that I use it any more anyways).
Something like deca or equipoise can be run higher, but not too significantly. I see nothing wrong with 300mg/week deca alongside 200mg/week test.
Other compounds such as primobolan or masteron can be taken up to 500mg+/week with virtually no unwanted sides while keeping test lower.
Here is My List of Old School Cycles for Badass Results:
ANAVAR, DECA, TEST
Weeks 1-10; 50-100mg/day anavar, 200mg/week test e, 200mg/week deca
MASTERON, TEST, PROVIRON
Weeks 1-8; 500mg/week masteron, 200mg/week test, 50mg/day proviron
PRIMO, TEST
Weeks 1-12; 500-700mg/week primobolan, 200mg/week test
SOLO PRIMO RUN
Weeks 1-12; 1000mg/week primo
CRUISE/CUT RUN WITH ANAVAR, PROVIRON, ECA STACK, TEST
Weeks 1-8; 30mg/day anavar, 50mg/day proviron, 100mg/week test, ECA stack everyday (ephedrine, caffeine, aspirin)
THE EQ KICKER
Weeks 1-2; 800mg/week EQ frontloaded, 200mg/week test
Weeks 3-12; 400mg/week eq, 200mg/week test
WINNY/DECA/TEST (poor mans old school contest cycle)
Weeks 1-4; 200mg/week test, 300mg/week deca
Weeks 5-12; 50mg/day winstrol, 200mg/week test, 300mg/week deca (drop deca at 10 week mark, 2 weeks out from competition, add in anti-estrogen at 8 weeks into cycle)
PRIMO/ANAVAR/DECA/TEST/EXEMASTAINE CONTEST CYCLE
Weeks 1-12; 700mg/week primo, 50-100mg/day anavar, 200mg/week deca, 200mg/week test (drop deca 2 weeks out from show, use arimistane for PCT daily).
That is pretty much how I do things folks. I run those compounds exclusively and see no reason to add in all the other quick-bang bullshit.
How Often Should You Run Steroid Cycles & Stay Healthy?
I have gone back to a traditional way of cycling, 2 cycles/year outside of my normal hormone replacement regimen.
Health is #1 here. Everyone should get bloodwork done to make sure your are healthy before you start any steroid cycle (and you've finished the cycle).
I donate blood as often as I can to keep hematocrit/RBC in check.
Occasionally I run some HCG to keep my nuts right. I run arimistane 2-3 times a week to keep estrogen under control.
I consistently monitor my blood pressure and heart rate. I am usually doing some type of cardio 2-3 times/week at any given time during the year.
Health is #1 here. I would tell anyone to get bloodwork done to make sure things are on the up and up before embarking on any steroid cycle, and after they're done.
Know what you're fucking with before doing any of this. I'm not advocating anyone use steroids here… BUT, if you choose to, what I've listed above is a little safer than what most guys are doing nowadays.
Train hard!
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designbuild:
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The first time I took it was while I was vacationing in Mexico for about two months, it's expensive as hell over there btw!! a 50mg vial is about 15 bucks US at the pharmacy... But I had a friend who worked at the hospital and he came into a lot of them and sold me a shitload for $100, that was my first time there and that's before I found a pharmacy that would sell without a script, the first one I went to wanted 25 for two 50mg rediject decas!!! like a dumbass I paid it... We're talking early 90's shit was hard to come by...
So I took 2 primobolan (100mg) a day and nothing else for about 2 months and I went from 170 to 190lbs quality gains that never went away!! I ate pretty much whatever I wanted too...
My strength also went through the roof! freakish gains, all muscle, the heaviest I had been at that point was a fat 180, but I dropped to 170... I was a lot leaner at 190 than I was at 170... It wasn't my first cycle either, I had done test cyp that got me from 119lbs (I was a boxer at 119lbs) to 160, then I did anadrol about a year later, by itself and gained 20lbs, a lot of fat and water, but my strength really went up!
I've tried Primobolan from a lot of other sources and it just didn't do too much...
aon1:
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I'm running primo 1050 tren 700 with no test for the first time and so far I've had zero issues. So it can be ran with no test if wanted.
gcherry1:
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I love primo. Even running 600mg wk did wonders for me. Everyone is different though. I know guys who run 9-1200mg wk of primo. I guess it depends on the person.
MikeS:
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VERY side effect free even at 800mg. I'm Shaved up top so no hair issues!
A lot like Masterone without the prostate issues.
Flattens out midsection and sharpens everything,
if you are already lean the difference is quite noticeable.
flexpack:
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I run primo at 600-800mg in prep. Yeah hair falls out like my German Shephard but other than that it's worth it. Virtually No other sides and the grainy look it brings when already lean is unmatched
Yomane:
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300mg primo e a week did a number on my hair. Was legit primo that I homebrewed and labmaxed. Not worth it if you have hair. I'm guessing it causes a strong response when bound to hair AR and a weak response to muscles. I'd feel safer running 100mg a week of tren and probably get more results.
allday:
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descriptions don't really do it justice but gives the dry grainy look that comes from a high dose masteron and low dose tren with the fullness that comes from eq.
Kept me much fuller with relative ease when dieting than when I use tren. And no side effects for me. hair is still in tact thankfully.
Lats:
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I remember years ago talking to a guy about primo.. He said it was not a dht.. I argued with him a while then looked it up.. And found its chemically from DHB like eq.. That's why it's confusing to me about the hair loss.. I love primo.. I did notice a bit of shedding after using 600 mgs a week.. But I still have my beautiful lions mane...
tenny and x1xjcramair1x1 like this.
concreter:
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I hold my hair fairly well on Primo.... Mast....Gone in days!!!
Proviron I don't notice much loss either.
But Still, a little Mast really brings out the Striations like no other!
ashop:
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I've ran 1g wk numerous times with little to no side effects at all.
matsuo:
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2 quick questions:
1) people that get hairloss on primo, would you get hairloss in the 400mg/week range?
2) does anybody else think that a lot of the hairloss from primo can be attributed to masteron being sold in place of primo??? I ask because on paper it doesn't look like primo should be too invasive on hairline...DHB (1-test) isn't too harsh on hairline and is very close to primo. Masteron is a cheaper drug and would make sense as a switch because the effects seem to be very similar
nb - (never ran primo but have ran masteron in the past and am debating running primo, mast caused my hair to shed like crazy).
Landmonster likes this.
Lats:
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That's always been my confusion.. People losing hair on primo.. Primo is a dhb.. Same as eq.. Should not cause HAIRLOSS on paper.. But many complain it does.. It could be that it's being substituted with mast etc.. But most primo tested these days has shown legit primo..
Matsuo Munefusa likes this.
bg091593:
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I ran 700mg a week, and hair was falling out. Now I've used masteron probably half a dozen times, from several sponsors, and I've never had hair fall out from it. But that primo was awful for my hairline. Like LATS said it's not really supposed to, but it made mine fall out unfortunately.
Matsuo Munefusa likes this.
***Lats:
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Ok... Here is what I believe is the issue with primo and the hairline.. Primo is very strong binding to the androgen receptor., stronger than most realize.. So the effect on hair in androgen based not from dht..
I called a friend of mine who is very knowledgable about anabolics.. More so than most.. He stated if you want the benefits of primo without the hair issue than the only way you can pull it off is to keep test very low ( like HRT low) and run primo higher.. He stated running primo , because ov its high affinity to the androgen receptor , with high Test is asking for issues Iv prone in that regard.. He runs 700 primo , 200 test cyp, eq 600 mgs.. ( current cycle) .. Said never had issues.. But ran 500 test and 600 primo once and lost hair like crazy.. So maybe he is on to something.. Maybe not..
kscowboy, nickels, Matsuo Munefusa and 1 others like this.
Lats:
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Originally Posted by Matsuo Munefusa View Post
well my idea to run 400mg each for the first decent cycle in years gets thrown out the window with that theory then lol
what do you think about crushing up aldactone tablets in DMSO/gel and rubbing into scalp to try to get the spiro to compete with the DHT receptors in the scalp? (while on primo/decent amount of test). Do you think that has a decent chance of blocking hairloss from primo (say 400mg/primo + 400mg/test per week).
Your friend's idea might have some merit though Lats. Back in the day (way back) when I used to run tren....I found running real low dose test with it would keep side effects down a bit....it seems test amplifies side effects from other hormones??? I don't quite understand how that works across the board or in this specific DHT/primo case....but it sounds "logical" at least
Well the issue would be that the topical solutions are supposed to prevent the conversion to DHT.. Since primo converts to DHB it would not help with primo but WOUld help with those using test.. I never missed with any of the topicals.. But some are under the impression that it products against compiunds like masterone and the like which, of course, is false since they are already in DHT form.. So in this case I don't believe that it would help with primos strong binding to the AR receptor..
Matsuo Munefusa likes this.
srhealth-rachel:
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Standard male Primobolan doses will fall in the 100-150mg per day range. Performance level doses will also fall in the same range. However, many men have reported decent results with as little as 50-75mg per day. Higher dose will cause some disease to your cardiovascular and hepatotoxicity.
abolish the weak:
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I have juiced for several years now, and since avoided primo due to availability and cost. I'm on my first primo run ever, I'm taking 100mg eod and let me tell you guys, it fucking rocks!! You wont notice anything drastic or crazy but the shit will give you a good, hard look if you eat halfway decent and your consistent with your training. I feel good on it as well, I've since dropped my test almost 4-5 wks ago and have not noticed ANY crash. I went from 800mg/wk of T-400 to totally dropping my test and introducing the primo as sort of a bridge type deal. Anyways, not sure if its like this for everyone but I will def continue to use it in the future as a staple for any other cycle. I hear the gains are well kept from it too. Just sharing
I'm sold on it, its relatively safe and effective. No side effects really, just good clean gains. Just make sure you get enough to last you 12-15 wks I'd say. I didn't see much for about the first 3 wks on it, but now it's coming around pretty damn fast. I was always told not to bother with it if you couldn't do at least 5-700mg/wk but 350 mg/wk for me seems pretty damn effective. Excellent bridge gear, excellent!!
BA69:
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BA69
09-14-2011, 01:24 PM
A lot of confusion about primo... It has sides just like everything else. It will shut you down, sure the bounce back is easier than Tren, but all AAS shut you down.
I think the info on Anavar and Primo comes from the early 90's and passed down over the years. Anavar is NOT a weak steroid, one of the strongest mg for mg. Primo is not without side effects. Guys would use 20mg of Var and 200mg of Primo since it was so scarce, or they would use fakes which obviously gave them no sides and very little gains. Anavar is now widely used and good material is available at an affordable price, not 2.5mg tabs at $10 a pop. We know 60-100mg ED is not weak and has strong body recomp changes. Many guys have notices sides from var not previously reported, like decrease in libido, irritabillity, stomach pains, decrease in appetite, sometimes joint pain, liver and cholesterol problems, etc...
Primo is still not widely used. My take as someone who used lab tested primo at 600mg per week;
1-If you are on a budget, don't waste your money. There are far better bangs for your buck.
2-Primo has a UNIQUE cosmetic effect that usually disappears with cessation of the compound.
3-It has a large potential for shedding hair.
4-It definetely contributes to HPTA shutdown.
5-It will not build large amounts of mass.
6-Under 400mg is a waste.
7-It's effects don't seem to be as dependent on what you eat or how much you eat as compared to other steroids like nandrolone.
8-It increases sex drive greatly.
In conclusion, if money is not an issue, Primo is a fun add-on to any cycle, but it will definetely not create structural or permanent skeletal muscle changes.
concreter:
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concreter
09-17-2011, 10:44 AM
Ran test at 3-600mg with 6- 800 primo and had nothing but compliaments all summer. Its great for me at 43 to stay off all the heavy androgens during the active hot summer mnths and still hold the muscle while basically cruising with no side effects and no water retention, pure lean and full muscle
With the help of a little gh + t-4!
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taslajrisi
09-17-2011, 02:39 PM
And let's be real. Mass is mass is mass. If you gain fat, you probably ate too much. If you gained water, its easy to drop. I don't much buy into the quality mass concept anymore. Either you gained muscle or you didn't. How would quality mass be different from shitty mass? Fat? Check your diet. Water? Goes away.
A large part of the mass gained from d-bol or anadrol is actually water inside the muscle. Yes it is larger but it goes away when you stop. The water in muscle, tendons etc. is what helps with workouts, strength, and keeps the joints pain free.
Personally, I love Primo because of the slow pure muscle gains, stimulates the immune system, no water, great nitrogen retention, helps joints, and does not shut the HPTA much at all. Some love it, some think its a waste. I think a lot of older guys like it because its not harsh and works on a low calorie diet pretty good.
TNH:
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TNH
03-21-2012, 09:15 AM
Primo is my favorite steroid.
I ran it most of last year in doses varying from 200-800mg.
I am sensitive to the mental effects of all AAS, but primo does not affect me in any way, even at 800mg. It feels like I am on nothing at all (other than the positive results I see).
I feel it is very underrated.
I no longer use EQ due to its interference with GABA-ergic transmission (causes crippling social anxiety for me). I have ran it before though, and I would say primo is better at putting on mass.
I think too many people are getting other AAS labeled as primo, or they aren't using enough of it.
600-800mg with some NPP and test, and you will grow nicely if you eat enough.
Primo gives me sort of a recomping effect, like a mild tren with no side effects.
I get very vascular and full from it.
sliced:
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I ran 375mg of some primo E and absolutely loved it over the course of 10 weeks. By about 10 days in, no later than 15 for certain, I noticed it's effects and obviously as time went on, so did the progress.
I'm switching things up and using a recommendation by Ross; 300mg Primo E/300mg Primo Ace. Same brand Primo E I used before, but a UGL Primo Ace that I swear by and I cannot wait to commence this on Monday.
At 375mg, I just noticed a crisper look. In regard to how I can explain primo, it makes you look like you are actually on steroids, and it makes you feel like you aren't on steroids. If that makes sense, and to elaborate, it's pretty much gives you the "look" without the retention and gives you the benefits without the sides.
wood4days:
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Haha! I just finished my primo cycle 2 weeks ago. I'm now in day 15 after last pin. Waiting 4 more days till I start pct cycle.
Primo is legit. My first shot was painful. Not the shot it self, but the day after my ass was sore for 2 days. Then every shot after that never hurt. Weird right?
I was doing 400mg primo/week. With 500 test/week. My first cycle.
I started natty 145 lbs 15% body fat. 12 weeks in I was 158 lbs 13% body fat.
Now I'm of gear and maintaining at 154 lbs with a body fat of 12%
I did not focus in cardio during this cycle. Only did cardio twice a week 20min each time.
My next cycle I will do alot of cardio since it ends mid summer.
Pre blood work my testosterone level was 466 with an estrogen level of 16.8
Mid blood work my testosterone level was 5080 and estrogen level 48
Post blood work 2 weeks after last pin my testosterone level is 789 with an estrogen level of 38
Even though I'm off primo now and it's now 15 days after last pin. I'm still beast mode at the gym. I lifting weights and training just as hard as when I was on gear. Lost zero strength. I'm actually pushing a little more off gear. Weird.
While on primo my gains were slow but solid. Strength came gradually and so did the weight. So it wasn't obvious at the gym that I was on gear. 8 weeks in that's when I started getting random compliments at the gym. So I would recommend primo, because it feels like a more natural steady solid gains. You don't get all that water weight. For side effects, I had only a few pimples on my face. Fuck like a bunny. Probably from The test.
Some guys use other gear and it's very obvious. Just 2 months and they blow up 30-40 lbs. Then off cycle they drop 30 lbs lol
Well that's my experience with primo. We will see what happens when I start PCT cycle.