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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 10-09-2019, 03:41 AM
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So after reading all this should one come off trt or not? My numbers have always been low even before trt. They same on or off trt. But see no point using clomid if on trt with hcg and FSH being used? If off trt I can see adding clomid.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 10-09-2019, 05:42 AM
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Originally Posted by dragonfire101 View Post
So after reading all this should one come off trt or not? My numbers have always been low even before trt. They same on or off trt. But see no point using clomid if on trt with hcg and FSH being used? If off trt I can see adding clomid.
Sperm count is low before TRT? I'd then assume using TRT didn't exactly help the situation.

Go with HCG and HMG during TRT and keep an AI on hand if E raises and I'd combine with either 20mg/ED Tamox or 25mg/ED Clomid.

On TRT natural LH and FSH is going to be zero, but there is some evidence Clomid can cause FSH to rise slightly even during HPTA suppression/shutdown when on TRT.

Clomid is cheap and its not exactly going to cause FSH to decrease even more. I'd throw that in if fertility was my goal.

I'd also use a true TRT dosage, not this 250-400mg per week of exogenous Test bullshit. 10-15mg per day TE injected subq. Drop all other AAS.
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 10-09-2019, 11:07 AM
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Originally Posted by dragonfire101 View Post
So after reading all this should one come off trt or not? My numbers have always been low even before trt. They same on or off trt. But see no point using clomid if on trt with hcg and FSH being used? If off trt I can see adding clomid.
Go to the Dr, tell him your story and have them get your sperm count up. If you really want to make sure, have your girl checked too. Some girls have no idea but a lot of them have issues as well conceiving.

I can honestly say, my boy is 1 now and the best thing ever!!!! I would do any test or whatever the Dr said
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 10-10-2019, 12:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Swifto View Post
Wont have much impact IMO.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2680994

Although some studies exist showing some positive effects.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2892728

I wouldn't use Proviron for this goal.

HCG, HMG, Clomid. AI if required.
is nolva instead of ai ok ? if conceiving was goal

Last edited by whoremoan; 10-10-2019 at 12:23 PM. Reason: question answered on 2nd page
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old 10-10-2019, 02:00 PM
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Originally Posted by MonkeyBoy View Post
Go to the Dr, tell him your story and have them get your sperm count up. If you really want to make sure, have your girl checked too. Some girls have no idea but a lot of them have issues as well conceiving.

I can honestly say, my boy is 1 now and the best thing ever!!!! I would do any test or whatever the Dr said
I have done all the this. The Drs are clueless when comes lot stuff. He just prescribed hcg 3 x week only. You need FSH as well.
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 10-10-2019, 02:32 PM
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Didn't isolate for variables but hcg+hmg are very inconvenient and hard to get/transport and verify if legit . Tried them for 100 days (blasted test+winny) no dice granted I had a few periods where I wasn't consistent because of travel and logistics. Not some shit I csn just put in my luggage and be sure it's ok due to temperature, and not sure it's legit unless it's pharmacy. It is not cheap either. Cost more than using a decent dose of hgh.

Coming off and using Torem and asin is the next thing I'm doing.

Read up about torem supposed to bring back fertility even on low doses of aas and isn't as finicky as hmg.
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old 10-10-2019, 06:55 PM
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Originally Posted by nihilixm View Post
Didn't isolate for variables but hcg+hmg are very inconvenient and hard to get/transport and verify if legit . Tried them for 100 days (blasted test+winny) no dice granted I had a few periods where I wasn't consistent because of travel and logistics. Not some shit I csn just put in my luggage and be sure it's ok due to temperature, and not sure it's legit unless it's pharmacy. It is not cheap either. Cost more than using a decent dose of hgh.

Coming off and using Torem and asin is the next thing I'm doing.

Read up about torem supposed to bring back fertility even on low doses of aas and isn't as finicky as hmg.
https://www.fertstert.org/article/S0...070-2/abstract

Where have you read it can raise sperm quality numbers "on low dose of AAS"?
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old 10-11-2019, 01:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Swifto View Post
Sperm count is low before TRT? I'd then assume using TRT didn't exactly help the situation.

Go with HCG and HMG during TRT and keep an AI on hand if E raises and I'd combine with either 20mg/ED Tamox or 25mg/ED Clomid.

On TRT natural LH and FSH is going to be zero, but there is some evidence Clomid can cause FSH to rise slightly even during HPTA suppression/shutdown when on TRT.

Clomid is cheap and its not exactly going to cause FSH to decrease even more. I'd throw that in if fertility was my goal.

I'd also use a true TRT dosage, not this 250-400mg per week of exogenous Test bullshit. 10-15mg per day TE injected subq. Drop all other AAS.
So glad you showed me that study because "common wisdom" and physiology would tell us that it wouldn't work, but that is awesome nugget of information to have. Thanks again
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 10-11-2019, 02:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Black Beard View Post
So glad you showed me that study because "common wisdom" and physiology would tell us that it wouldn't work, but that is awesome nugget of information to have. Thanks again
No problem at all.

Yeah, doesn't make much sense really.

I think Clomid is a powerful drug for this MOA (raising LH/FSH) even in the presence of androgens and gonadotropin mimetic such as HCG and HMG.

An interesting idea is that Tamoxifen may also cause this rise in LH and FSH as it seems to sensitise the pituitary to GnRH (LHRH) in eugindal males as shown in this study.

I first wrote about this back in 2010 here: https://forums.steroid.com/anabolic-...fene-what.html

Although I don't know how much of that is outdated now!

Over the years I've seen AAS and TRT users report that their testes become more full and semen volume increases after using Clomid. Although without blood testing its not confirmatory, Id hypothesize endogenous LH and FSH are rising slighting and/or ITT even in the presence of androgens that would cause significant endogenous hormone suppression.
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old 10-11-2019, 02:33 AM
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Originally Posted by dragonfire101 View Post
I have done all the this. The Drs are clueless when comes lot stuff. He just prescribed hcg 3 x week only. You need FSH as well.
Get a new DR
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  #31 (permalink)  
Old 10-11-2019, 03:36 AM
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Originally Posted by MonkeyBoy View Post
Get a new DR
Not many in the state who are Fertility specialist, but the the ones I went to are Drs at prestiges medical schools where I live who specializes in male fertility and ueology. They prescribe hcg 3 x week 2500 iu and armindex 1 mg day.

I found a endocrinologist and gave her studies on hcg and FSH being used together and was given prescription for hcg 3 x week 1500 iu and FSH 150 iu 3x week. FSH just do damn expensive insurance won't cover it but they cover the hcg. Endo says with both don't need come off trt as you going to artificially create spermatogenis through the exogenous use of the hcg and FSH. I may add clomid 50 mg day.
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  #32 (permalink)  
Old 10-15-2019, 05:44 AM
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so being on trt youd take 1mg adex a day as well?
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  #33 (permalink)  
Old 10-16-2019, 09:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dragonfire101 View Post
Not many in the state who are Fertility specialist, but the the ones I went to are Drs at prestiges medical schools where I live who specializes in male fertility and ueology. They prescribe hcg 3 x week 2500 iu and armindex 1 mg day.

I found a endocrinologist and gave her studies on hcg and FSH being used together and was given prescription for hcg 3 x week 1500 iu and FSH 150 iu 3x week. FSH just do damn expensive insurance won't cover it but they cover the hcg. Endo says with both don't need come off trt as you going to artificially create spermatogenis through the exogenous use of the hcg and FSH. I may add clomid 50 mg day.
Gotcha....keep us posted. I can't speak more on what your journey will be like but I can tell you once your boy/girl comes out, your life will change for the best like you had no idea!!!
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  #34 (permalink)  
Old 10-16-2019, 11:23 PM
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How much does one value and prioritize having a child? If not enough to cut back on all other expenses to privatize fertility/pregnancy both financially and ahead of "gains" I would hazard a guess not enough. Logistics of staying consistent with HCG/HMG too difficult? Do you say the same about hormone injections or training days? Those that want something enough find a way to always get it done... whatever that "something" is.

People will spend exorbitant amounts of money on steroids, food, gh, prep coaches, pre/intraworkout, insulin and time things to the minute but find regular lab work, health support supplements and fertility too expensive or hard to schedule consistently.

Different goals and priorities for different people. I heard JP say on a podcast children were never a goal or priority for him so he never worried about the impact on fertility. Nothing at all wrong with that. But to make excuses as to why one can't do something is just that IMO... excuses.
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  #35 (permalink)  
Old 10-16-2019, 11:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Swifto View Post
No problem at all.

Yeah, doesn't make much sense really.

I think Clomid is a powerful drug for this MOA (raising LH/FSH) even in the presence of androgens and gonadotropin mimetic such as HCG and HMG.

An interesting idea is that Tamoxifen may also cause this rise in LH and FSH as it seems to sensitise the pituitary to GnRH (LHRH) in eugindal males as shown in this study.

I first wrote about this back in 2010 here: https://forums.steroid.com/anabolic-...fene-what.html

Although I don't know how much of that is outdated now!

Over the years I've seen AAS and TRT users report that their testes become more full and semen volume increases after using Clomid. Although without blood testing its not confirmatory, Id hypothesize endogenous LH and FSH are rising slighting and/or ITT even in the presence of androgens that would cause significant endogenous hormone suppression.

I've seen the same anecdotes on the testes volume on cycle with clomid too, which would help explain this if true.
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  #36 (permalink)  
Old 10-18-2019, 01:30 PM
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Originally Posted by RoyHobbs View Post
How much does one value and prioritize having a child? If not enough to cut back on all other expenses to privatize fertility/pregnancy both financially and ahead of "gains" I would hazard a guess not enough. Logistics of staying consistent with HCG/HMG too difficult? Do you say the same about hormone injections or training days? Those that want something enough find a way to always get it done... whatever that "something" is.

People will spend exorbitant amounts of money on steroids, food, gh, prep coaches, pre/intraworkout, insulin and time things to the minute but find regular lab work, health support supplements and fertility too expensive or hard to schedule consistently.

Different goals and priorities for different people. I heard JP say on a podcast children were never a goal or priority for him so he never worried about the impact on fertility. Nothing at all wrong with that. But to make excuses as to why one can't do something is just that IMO... excuses.
People travel, drugs are not sustainable in all weather not every one can have ideal circumstances or not have visa issues with their partner or a million different things. Etc etc. Easy to take a few pills of roids to cruise on over seas for a month. A bunch of peptides that need to be stored in a fridge and not stay in a luggage bag due to extreme temperature and the country having strict import laws? Not so easy to get.

Good to know you're passive aggressively nagging Me without a quote even. Must be on clomid.

Last edited by nihilixm; 10-18-2019 at 01:41 PM.
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  #37 (permalink)  
Old 10-19-2019, 12:44 AM
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Originally Posted by nihilixm View Post
People travel, drugs are not sustainable in all weather not every one can have ideal circumstances or not have visa issues with their partner or a million different things. Etc etc. Easy to take a few pills of roids to cruise on over seas for a month. A bunch of peptides that need to be stored in a fridge and not stay in a luggage bag due to extreme temperature and the country having strict import laws? Not so easy to get.

Good to know you're passive aggressively nagging Me without a quote even. Must be on clomid.
I didn't quote you because I wasn't only talking about you. But I will now because I am. No passive aggressiveness or climid... I'm not seeking children at the moment.

If one can travel with meals on a plane they can travel with a bottle of HCG. Frozen Tupperware meals in a carry on or frozen bags of veggies keeping a thawed meal cold in a carry on could do the same for peptides. How many guys travel with their "roids"? Tons. You can mail syringes where you are going. You can put pills in a vitamin bottle.

Where there is a will there is a way. Lots of people have the will to pursue size and strength. Not so many have the same will to pursue children. But perhaps that's for the best...
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  #38 (permalink)  
Old 10-19-2019, 10:37 AM
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I get a script for hcg and FSH made here in US I pick up at the pharmacy so quality not a concern. They are a lil expensive though. FSH is $400 for 1500 iu and HCG sometimes covered by insurance for 10,000 iu if not it's $100.
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  #39 (permalink)  
Old 10-29-2019, 04:17 AM
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I must be the only damn person to take every drug mentioned here and it didn't do a damn thing.. i went through years of this bullshit, i honestly think i may have never had a normal sperm count in my life because i have never heard of someone taking HMG and not bouncing back.

first i stayed on test and took all these meds, that didn't work.. then went to a doctor.. he told me to stop taking test, he prescribed me hcg and clomid. hcg 2500iu 3 times a week 50mg climid EOD... year and a half of that and nothing so added in HMG and still nothing.. i tried all these meds on and off testosterone.

i went thought 3 full in-vitro cycles and finally we had a child thank god... but it was a difficult few years.

im glad to see so many guys have luck... but i also hate reading these threads that gave me hope in the past and for me none of this shit worked.
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  #40 (permalink)  
Old 10-31-2019, 06:51 AM
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I must be the only damn person to take every drug mentioned here and it didn't do a damn thing.. i went through years of this bullshit, i honestly think i may have never had a normal sperm count in my life because i have never heard of someone taking HMG and not bouncing back.

first i stayed on test and took all these meds, that didn't work.. then went to a doctor.. he told me to stop taking test, he prescribed me hcg and clomid. hcg 2500iu 3 times a week 50mg climid EOD... year and a half of that and nothing so added in HMG and still nothing.. i tried all these meds on and off testosterone.

i went thought 3 full in-vitro cycles and finally we had a child thank god... but it was a difficult few years.

im glad to see so many guys have luck... but i also hate reading these threads that gave me hope in the past and for me none of this shit worked.

You were testing your sperm count/quality? Your partner is also a very important part of the equation, as well as timing ejaculation with ovulation.
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