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Question on mass routine

ajdonutz

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Kilo Klub Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2012
Messages
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Ive been training ~6 days a week (5 on 1 off) for a few months now, and i feel like ive overtrained. Yes i know i had it coming, but like many others here its my "me" time and what keeps me sane. But, i want to switch to a better routine and take some extra recovery, and not workout 5 days in a row.. so ill throw this one out:

Day 1: chest/tris
Flat bench 4 sets, reverse pyramid, 2-3, 4-5, 7-8, 10-12reps
Incline barbell 4 sets same scheme
Dips 4x8-10
Hammer dumbbell bench 3x12-15
Cable flyes 3x12-15
Tricep isolation exercise 3x8-12

Day 2 legs
Squat 4x10
Leg press full ROM 4x8-12
Leg extension 4x8-12
Lying leg curl 3x6-10
Seated leg curl 3x10
Seated calf raise 3x15-30

Day 3 off

Day 4 delts/traps
Barbell military 3 sets, 2x2, 1x6
Seated dumbbell press 3x8-10
Side lateral raises 3x10-15
Seated rear delt shoulder raises 3x10-15
Barbell shrug 3x8-12
Dumbbell shrug or upright row 3x8-12

Day 5 back/bis
Deadlift 3x2-3
Barbell row 3x6-12
Dumbbell row 4x8-12
Close grip pull up 4 sets to failure
Wide grip lat pull downs 4x8-12
Dumbbell curls 3x8-12
Concentration curls or hammer curls 3x8-12

Day 6 off

Repeat


*Side notes: offseason, mass phase, no cardio

What do more competitive guys think? Its fairly basic, nothing crazy, but thats what i believe in mostly. I wasjt overtraining for a while on my 5 on 1 off split so i feel like this day off every third day shiuld allow plenty of recovery, but would anyone suggest a day off between each workout? Ie workibg out EOD, with same routine, juat added rest days..? Just looking to optimize strength /size gains. I have continued to gain size, its just slowed a lot lately and strength has stagnated for quite some time, so i think it was due to my CNS being trashed... thanks anyone who chips in..
 
you are doing a shit load of sets ...were you doing that many when training 5 days in a row >>??
Me .. i would cut the sets in half ( still leaving you with 10 ) AND work out 2 take 1 off..work out 2 take 1 or 2 off
 
you are doing a shit load of sets ...were you doing that many when training 5 days in a row >>??
Me .. i would cut the sets in half ( still leaving you with 10 ) AND work out 2 take 1 off..work out 2 take 1 or 2 off

Yes i was doing that many sets before. Hmmm so even with 2 on 1 off youd consider it too many sets? I feel like any less i wouldnt be hitting it hard enough.. hell i train HARD and im barely sore the next day on most bodyparts.. how about:

Day 1 chest tris
Flat bench 4 sets reverse pyramid
Incline 2x8-12
Dips 2x8-12
Cable flyes 1x15-20
Tricep isolation 2x8-12

Day 2 legs
Squat 3x10
Leg press 3x8-12
Leg ext 2x8-12
Leg curl 2x6-10
seated leg curl 2x6-10
Calf raise 2x15-30

Day 3 off

Day 4 delts/traps
Barbell military 2 sets varying reps
Dumbbell press 2x8-12
Side lateral raise 2x10-15
Rear delt raise 1x10-15
Bb shrug 2x8-12
Other trap work 2x8-12

Day 5 back bis
Dead 2x2-3
Bb row 2x8-12
Db row 2x8-12
Close pull ups 2 sets failure
Lat pull downs 2x8-12
Db curl 1x8-12
Concentraion curl or hammer curl 1x8-12

Day 6 off

Repeat
 
this is just from my personal experience but there are too many redundant exercises on any given day


chest for example, i like to do one or two working sets for chest if i go heavy. i like to incorporate both heavy days and light days as you can't go heavy all the time. when i train heavy for example i will work up to one working set on the inclines which will target my upper/mid pec while also working the delts, so i try to avoid any kind of flat when i do incline. so i will then move onto a movement that will target the lower chest and triceps more without taxing the front delt too hard because it's already beat from my inclines. so i will move onto something like a decline hammer strength or dips with weight on my belt. and then i will maybe add in a movement to finish off the pecs like high rep low weight flat dumbbells with like 40-50lbs for like 25-30 reps. then move onto a triceps and side delt movement. i try to play it by ear but honestly the low volume thing works for me when it comes to building the mass, it's all about hitting the muscle from a sufficient amount of angles, hitting it hard, and going home and resting and eating.


it works for me, but it may not work for everyone. everyone is different. you may very well do well on that routine. i don't tie myself down to any routine that i write down because i find that i overtrain easily if i push myself too hard.


this is from me learning how my body works to certain rep ranges and certain exercises and exercise frequency and response to different types of volume throughout the years.


once again, it is all individual. you gotta try and see what works for you and play it by ear and train instinctually. training will continually evolve as your physique progresses as well.



if you have great genetics and are on a sufficient amount of drugs just about any training program will work for you. i see it all the time in the gym that i go to, plenty of juicers who don't really look like they know what they are doing but they are huge and jacked and they have the genetics that respond to just about anything. these guys are usually black though
 
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Hmm.. ive never tried lower volume, my workouts have always been ~18 sets.. i think ill dip my feet in the waters with the second routine i laid out.. thatll be basically cutting my workouts in half.. ill see how it goes, my strength has definitely stagnated lately so something new is in order


Any suggestions from others? All input appreciated
 
Last edited:
Hmm.. ive never tried lower volume, my workouts have always been ~18 sets.. i think ill dip my feet in the waters with the second routine i laid out.. thatll be basically cutting my workouts in half.. ill see how it goes, my strength has definitely stagnated lately so something new is in order



i tried the higher volume, eat when hungry(mind you i don't normally get hungry, i am fine off of one meal per day literally), and higher drugs thing, and while i did grow, i didn't like how slowly i did grow. cut the doses in half, ate like a starving african child, trained heavy and back to the basics, BOOM 10 lbs lean muscle in weeks at a lower BF


i am one of those guys who has good shape but has a very difficult time putting the mass on so i have tried a bunch of different things. when it comes to building the mass and developing the strength you have to progress on an exercise.

i am not really the kind of guy who grows from stagnating with the weights and just adding more volume. all that does is wear me out. i think of my body trying to "Reset" rather than to "recover and grow bigger and stronger" when i hit high volume, low weights.


if you are a naturally small and thin man there is no question that you need to get strong as a forklift if you ever plan on getting big.


the only guys who i have seen who have gotten big using small weights were either

A) genetically gifted born with muscle
B) on a shit ton of drugs
C) are naturally fat and usually stay pretty fat


some people can just look at weights and grow. for me i stick to the basics on what i know grew me from a frail and thin individual into the guy i am now, realizing that for me my body battles against gaining mass.


i know of a guy, who i know for a fact is not on hormones, doesn't even train, 230lbs at 5'8" big as a house. doesnt lift weights and takes care of his children, eats something like 1500 calories per day and he carries a lot of muscle mass. if i did the same thing i'd shrink down to my frail 120lbs self. there is also this dude that i used to go to high school with who i noticed started going to the gym. the dude seriously does not hit the weights heavy at all, yet he is bigger and more muscular than me in sheer size due to his genetics and he has continued to grow and grow in every gym session i see him at because we tend to go at the same times. he will literally struggle with 135lbs on the bench but his arms are close to 17 inches and he is not a fat guy, 13-14% max. i know for certain this guy does not know how to train yet his body responds like crazy to training in such a stupid and half assed and weak manner. my arms are barely close to his size yet i outbench him by several hundred lmao. you will also catch black dudes sitting on a bench all day doing literally something like 15 sets on flat bench alone. and these guys are slinging at least 225lbs each time which is not light if you are doing that many sets. fucking black genetics man.


genetics is one hell of a game changer. realize your own and realize what works for you, not necessarily for what works for others
 
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I have another scenario.. im debating between thd second one i laid out or this one:

Following a 2 on 1 off sequence, ie A, B, off, C, A, off, B, C, off... so on and so forth, so every thing is hit every 4-5 days, 4th day one rotation and 5th the next.

Workout A
Flat bench 3 sets
Incline 2 sets
Dips 2 sets
Dumbbell shoulder press 1 set
Side lateral raise 1 set
Tricep push downs or extensions 1 set

Workout B
Deadlift 2 sets
Barbell row 1 set
Dumbbell row 1 set
Close grip pull ups 1 set
Wide lat pull downs 1 set
Rear delt raises 1 set
Barbell shrugs 1 set
Other trap isolation 1 set
Dumbbell curls 1 set
Concentration curls or hammer curl 1 set

Workout C
Squat 3 sets
Leg press 3 sets
Leg extension 2 set
Leg curls 2 set
Seated leg curls 1 set
Calf raises 2 sets


Opinions? This one vs the 2nd one i laid out in post 3. This one hits everything more often and condenses to 3 workouts instead of 4.. still 2 on 1 off
 
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I switch it up often depending on how I recover.

If you like training almost every day, one variation I like when cutting and doing a lot of cardio which kills my recovery on a diet (like now), is: 1 bodypart per day, 6 days on, 1 day off. I like that I can really work each body-part with high reps and/or heavy weights and still recover. But even this needs to change after a few weeks.

Shoulders/Traps
Biceps
Triceps
Legs
Back
Chest
Day Off
(abs EOD)

I'll do one week of the above to failure, the next, avoiding failure. Recovery for me means CNS recovery more than muscle recovery. If I hammer my body with too many sets to failure over more than 2 weeks, I don't recover and feel like shit, with AAS or not.
 
I like drop sets best. I train heavy 6-8 reps on all compound exercises, and then do around 10 reps for isolation exercises. I typically do 2 main compound exercises per body part, then 2 isolation exercises. I do 3-4 sets per exercise. I start at my heaviest weight for my first working set. For example, I will rack deadlift 585x8, I will then strip off 1 plate per side(90lbs) and without resting, do as many reps as I can with that weight. I then repeat that process one more time and go on to the next exercise.

Now obviously you wouldn't want to drop so much weight off for all exercises. The more weight you're training with, the more you're going to have to take off, in order to hit your desired rep range. For example, I will do wide grip incline hammer strength bench with 4 plates per side. I will start at my heaviest weight as always, but since I'm not using close to 600lbs like with deads, I will only take off about 30lbs depending on how many reps I got and what my rep range is. With something like straight bar cable curls, I only drop by 15lbs each drop set.

This type of training(for me) works best for mass, strength, overall muscular density, shape, and overall CNS health. Aside from this, my 2nd favorite program is DC training, but it was just too damn hard on my joints. I also throw in static holds, forced reps, slow negatives, etc, from DC training herr and tnere. I basically took some ideas from various routines and made my own that works best for me, and that I enjoy more than any other routine. I love to train with a LOT of intensity. I train all out, balls to the wall, every rep, every set, every exercise. If I even think I MIGHT be able to do another rep, I will try, and always do get it. I know my body well, as I've never trained with a partner because they either talk too much or just cannot keep up.

My routine is as follows...

Monday - Biceps, Triceps, Abs
Tuesday - Quads, Hams, Calves
Wednesday - OFF
Thursday - Chest, Calves, Abs - calves need work, train them 2x per week
Friday - Delts, Back, Abs
Saturday - OFF
Sunday - OFF

I am married and have 2 kids, so family time is imoortant. The gym is MY time, MY temple, MY territory. Aside from competitive bodybuilding, I do nothing but work and spend time with family. We obviously do many other things, but I have no other real hobbies other than building nice, fast, cars to drive :) This schedule allows me to have my own personal time 4 days per week immediately after work, 3 days off during the week, including the weekend. So we can pretty much do anything on the weekends with no restrictions of me having to train at a certain time. Sometimes I will miss a session during the week, and I will make up for it on a weekend day, but that doesn't too often. Having the 3 days off each week, and training 2 days on, 1 day off, 2 days on, 2 days off, allows my muscles and CNS proper recovery time. Now this is just what I do, what I enjoy the most, and what works best for me in terms of results. I urge you to give it a shot, but everyBODY is different. Sorry for such a long post, but the more details when it comes to a training program, the better it can be understood and comprehended.
 
you are probably way overtrained from this
what are your stats ? for how many years have u been training ? that's a shitload of stuff you do, especially for a 6 days a week routine
 
you are probably way overtrained from this
what are your stats ? for how many years have u been training ? that's a shitload of stuff you do, especially for a 6 days a week routine

5'10", ~226 lbs, bf: 15ish?, training for about 3 years, extremely serious about the gym the whole time, diet serioud here and there but never a mass phase, extremely serious in every aspect for the past 6 months. The 6 days a week had only been going on for about 2 months, before that i had different routines, 3 on 1 off, m-f, etc. Just here recently i feel like it caught up to me as i am not progressing much. But no need to scold brotha im completely aware and was aware thw whole time, the gym os juat the only thing that keeps me sane. But im ready to tone it back.. what is your take on the routine i listed? Specifically the last one i believe in post 10, 2 on 1 off consisting of workouts a, b, and c
 
Might I suggest the DC route, or if you stay with the volume approach up your reps to 10/20 add a few drops and keep rest time to 90 sec or less. Also I would put compound exercises 2/3 rd after you are sufficiently warmed up.
 
bump, still looking for feedback on this routine:


Following a 2 on 1 off sequence, ie A, B, off, C, A, off, B, C, off... so on and so forth, so every thing is hit every 4-5 days, 4th day one rotation and 5th the next.

Workout A
Flat bench 3 sets
Incline 2 sets
Dips 2 sets
Dumbbell shoulder press 1 set
Side lateral raise 1 set
Tricep push downs or extensions 1 set

Workout B
Deadlift 1 set after warmup
Barbell row 1 set
Dumbbell row 1 set
Close grip pull ups 1 set
Wide lat pull downs 2 sets
Rear delt raises 1 set
Barbell shrugs 1 set
Other trap isolation 1 set
Dumbbell curls 1 set
Concentration curls or hammer curl 1 set

Workout C
Squat 3 sets
Leg press 2 sets
Leg extension 1 set
Leg curls 2 set
Seated leg curls 1 set
Calf raises 2 sets


Each muscle gets worked every 4-5 days..
 
bump, still looking for feedback on this routine:


Following a 2 on 1 off sequence, ie A, B, off, C, A, off, B, C, off... so on and so forth, so every thing is hit every 4-5 days, 4th day one rotation and 5th the next.

Workout A
Flat bench 3 sets
Incline 2 sets
Dips 2 sets
Dumbbell shoulder press 1 set
Side lateral raise 1 set
Tricep push downs or extensions 1 set

Workout B
Deadlift 1 set after warmup
Barbell row 1 set
Dumbbell row 1 set
Close grip pull ups 1 set
Wide lat pull downs 2 sets
Rear delt raises 1 set
Barbell shrugs 1 set
Other trap isolation 1 set
Dumbbell curls 1 set
Concentration curls or hammer curl 1 set

Workout C
Squat 3 sets
Leg press 2 sets
Leg extension 1 set
Leg curls 2 set
Seated leg curls 1 set
Calf raises 2 sets


Each muscle gets worked every 4-5 days..

It looks good, only thing i would do 2 on ,1 off, 2 on, 2 off and repeat.
 
i am in the same boat wish i new what worked best for me still trying to figure it out... any helpful hints the last few months i been doing high rep low weight and i seem to like it i am around 16 or 17 bf i dont feel like i am putting on more size but i am becoming more defined and i leave teh gym more sore then i usually do when i do heavy weight low sets
 
I think the a,b,c workouts look good. that would probably work great.
you could also keep that routine but take a day off in between each day.

so workout a, day off, b, day off, c, day off, a... etc.

I've just recently started working like this and i like it a lot.

mine looks like this

1. chest/tris
2. back/ bis
3. shoulders/traps
4. legs/abs

i take one day off between each workout and do a one hour walk for my cardio on my off days.

give it a shot you'll probably feel really good. JA
 
Im actually now considering this one:

Day 1 chest/back/shoulders,tris
Flat bench 1 set 4-6 reps
Incline 1 sets 8-12 reps
Dips 1 set 12-15 reps
Deads 1 set 2-4 reps
Dumbbell rows 1 set 8-12 reps
Wide lat pull downs 1 set 12-15 reps
Dumbbell shoulder press 1 set 4-6 reps
Side lateral raises 1 set 8-12 reps
Rear delt raisr 1 set 12-15
Barbell shrug 1 set 8-12
Tri extension 1 set 8-12
Tri pushdown 1 set 12-15

Day 2 quads/hams/calves/bis
Squat 1 set 4-6
Leg press 1 set 8-12
Leg ext 1 set 12-15
Leg curl lying 1 set 8-12
Seated leg curl 1 set 8-12
Calf raise 1seated 1 set 15+
Standing calf raise 1 set 15+
Dumbbell curls 1 set 6-8
Hammer curls 1 set 8-12
Concentration curl 1 set 12-15

Day 3 off

Repeat

Rotating exercise order each time and subbing other exercises such as barbell rows, cloae grip pull downs, cable rows, straight leg deads, etc
 
Im actually now considering this one:

Day 1 chest/back/shoulders,tris
Flat bench 1 set 4-6 reps
Incline 1 sets 8-12 reps
Dips 1 set 12-15 reps
Deads 1 set 2-4 reps
Dumbbell rows 1 set 8-12 reps
Wide lat pull downs 1 set 12-15 reps
Dumbbell shoulder press 1 set 4-6 reps
Side lateral raises 1 set 8-12 reps
Rear delt raisr 1 set 12-15
Barbell shrug 1 set 8-12
Tri extension 1 set 8-12
Tri pushdown 1 set 12-15

Day 2 quads/hams/calves/bis
Squat 1 set 4-6
Leg press 1 set 8-12
Leg ext 1 set 12-15
Leg curl lying 1 set 8-12
Seated leg curl 1 set 8-12
Calf raise 1seated 1 set 15+
Standing calf raise 1 set 15+
Dumbbell curls 1 set 6-8
Hammer curls 1 set 8-12
Concentration curl 1 set 12-15

Day 3 off

Repeat

Rotating exercise order each time and subbing other exercises such as barbell rows, cloae grip pull downs, cable rows, straight leg deads, etc

Bump
 
Im actually now considering this one:

Day 1 chest/back/shoulders,tris
Flat bench 1 set 4-6 reps
Incline 1 sets 8-12 reps
Dips 1 set 12-15 reps
Deads 1 set 2-4 reps
Dumbbell rows 1 set 8-12 reps
Wide lat pull downs 1 set 12-15 reps
Dumbbell shoulder press 1 set 4-6 reps
Side lateral raises 1 set 8-12 reps
Rear delt raisr 1 set 12-15
Barbell shrug 1 set 8-12
Tri extension 1 set 8-12
Tri pushdown 1 set 12-15

Day 2 quads/hams/calves/bis
Squat 1 set 4-6
Leg press 1 set 8-12
Leg ext 1 set 12-15
Leg curl lying 1 set 8-12
Seated leg curl 1 set 8-12
Calf raise 1seated 1 set 15+
Standing calf raise 1 set 15+
Dumbbell curls 1 set 6-8
Hammer curls 1 set 8-12
Concentration curl 1 set 12-15

Day 3 off

Repeat

Rotating exercise order each time and subbing other exercises such as barbell rows, cloae grip pull downs, cable rows, straight leg deads, etc

too many exercises on any given day, way too many, you cant be serious

do you plan to spend 2-3 hrs in the gym?

and do you just straight up go for an all out set with the heaviest weight rather than warming up?


i can't comprehend why you would think that is good


i would overtrain from that within 1 week
 

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