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Long term AI usage

Tim Zane

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Mar 16, 2018
Messages
278
Did a few test only cycles now and am currently cruising at 150 mg T Enanthate. I'm having trouble keeping gyno symptoms down even with that. For a few weeks I've been taking just .5mg Adx EOD to combat but still having symptoms. I wonder if other people who deal with this just come off completely because it's not worth it to cruise while still having to take an AI for long term health.

It always seems when I post though that my estrogen conversion rate is somewhat rare. Do you think putting in Proviron might take the place of what the AI is gonna do for me on low dose?

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For a few weeks I've been taking just .5mg Adx EOD to combat but still having symptoms.

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Just curious what are the symptoms?



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Did a few test only cycles now and am currently cruising at 150 mg T Enanthate. I'm having trouble keeping gyno symptoms down even with that. For a few weeks I've been taking just .5mg Adx EOD to combat but still having symptoms. I wonder if other people who deal with this just come off completely because it's not worth it to cruise while still having to take an AI for long term health.

It always seems when I post though that my estrogen conversion rate is somewhat rare. Do you think putting in Proviron might take the place of what the AI is gonna do for me on low dose?

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

Your aromatizing too much because 150mg is way more than physiological and your body is trying to normalize. Everyone who takes AAS becomes a "hyper-aromatizer" after a while (not varying degrees).

If you want to keep the dose that high, you will need to microdose your AI and GET BLOODWORK DONE.

You could try 100mg/week or better yet emeric's 10mg protocol is what I use between cycles.

As to your question about AI toxicity, from everything science knows so far, AIs seem relatively safe but little is known about long term use. The problem with AIs is probably more from driving E2 too low and the health issues that has on cardiovascular health and perhaps joint, tendon, and bone health.
 
Last edited:
Your aromatizing too much because 150mg is way more than physiological and your body is trying to normalize. Everyone who takes AAS becomes a "hyper-aromatizer" after a while (not varying degrees).

If you want to keep the dose that high, you will need to microdose your AI and GET BLOODWORK DONE.

You could try 100mg/week or better yet emeric's 10mg protocol is what I use between cycles.

As to your question about AI toxicity, from everything science knows so far, AIs seem relatively safe but little is known about long term use. The problem with AIs is probably more from driving E2 too low and the health issues that has on cardiovascular health and perhaps joint, tendon, and bone health.
He didnt say whether it was pharma test or not and either way, I've seen plenty put up less than optimal numbers on 150mg pharma test. I dont use pharma, only ugl but I've used a couple different reputable ugl's and about 5x is normal for me. Seems the few on this forum that claim that anything above 100mg/week is too much, are hyper responders. 150mg/week, puts me 750, 250mg/week puts me 1340.

Spend some time on some actual trt forum boards. 200mg/week pharma test is extremely common to put up numbers at 1000 and most those guys require an ai at some dose. Dont tell me tests were probably ran 7 days later, most are pinning every 3-4 days. The few here are exceptions, not standards.

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He didnt say whether it was pharma test or not and either way, I've seen plenty put up less than optimal numbers on 150mg pharma test. I dont use pharma, only ugl but I've used a couple different reputable ugl's and about 5x is normal for me. Seems the few on this forum that claim that anything above 100mg/week is too much, are hyper responders. 150mg/week, puts me 750, 250mg/week puts me 1340.

Spend some time on some actual trt forum boards. 200mg/week pharma test is extremely common to put up numbers at 1000 and most those guys require an ai at some dose. Dont tell me tests were probably ran 7 days later, most are pinning every 3-4 days. The few here are exceptions, not standards.

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You are correct, this is all common knowledge, both on trt boards and here also. 150mg/week might put you at 750 at some point later, but 24 hours afterwards you are going to be spiking way above that.

I'm all for higher dose cycles, but I am talking about minimizing AI usage on TRT, in order to get off the AIs completely, you will have to stay in physiological range.

It's actually easier to do 250mg+ and use an AI than get the AI dosage just right on 150mg.

You are correct, 200mg used to be "standard" but really it is just the most trt doctors can get away with giving you, 100mg/week is closer to the replacement dose. People normally make 7-8mg of test per day if I remember right (you have to subtract the ester to compare).

If you get bloodwork done 3-4 days after your shot, you will be significantly lower than your peak 12-36 hours after.
 
Your aromatizing too much because 150mg is way more than physiological and your body is trying to normalize. Everyone who takes AAS becomes a "hyper-aromatizer" after a while (not varying degrees).

If you want to keep the dose that high, you will need to microdose your AI and GET BLOODWORK DONE.

You could try 100mg/week or better yet emeric's 10mg protocol is what I use between cycles.

As to your question about AI toxicity, from everything science knows so far, AIs seem relatively safe but little is known about long term use. The problem with AIs is probably more from driving E2 too low and the health issues that has on cardiovascular health and perhaps joint, tendon, and bone health.
AI issues I'm thinking about are bad cholesterol for extended periods.

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You are correct, this is all common knowledge, both on trt boards and here also. 150mg/week might put you at 750 at some point later, but 24 hours afterwards you are going to be spiking way above that.



I'm all for higher dose cycles, but I am talking about minimizing AI usage on TRT, in order to get off the AIs completely, you will have to stay in physiological range.



It's actually easier to do 250mg+ and use an AI than get the AI dosage just right on 150mg.



You are correct, 200mg used to be "standard" but really it is just the most trt doctors can get away with giving you, 100mg/week is closer to the replacement dose. People normally make 7-8mg of test per day if I remember right (you have to subtract the ester to compare).



If you get bloodwork done 3-4 days after your shot, you will be significantly lower than your peak 12-36 hours after.
So what do you say is optimal? 250mg plus an AI, or 150mg and below with no AI?

Speaking of health and gains here. I don't see 250mg of test being unhealthy but really just the AI that screws things up.

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He didnt say whether it was pharma test or not and either way, I've seen plenty put up less than optimal numbers on 150mg pharma test. I dont use pharma, only ugl but I've used a couple different reputable ugl's and about 5x is normal for me. Seems the few on this forum that claim that anything above 100mg/week is too much, are hyper responders. 150mg/week, puts me 750, 250mg/week puts me 1340.

Spend some time on some actual trt forum boards. 200mg/week pharma test is extremely common to put up numbers at 1000 and most those guys require an ai at some dose. Dont tell me tests were probably ran 7 days later, most are pinning every 3-4 days. The few here are exceptions, not standards.

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It's UGL. When I was trying it at 210 mg a wk I was at 1300.

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Here is the issue with all these thread IMO, on PM we have a mix of two main kinds, those that are bodybuilders (compete or not, doesn't matter) and those that are trying to look good naked year round. Bodybuilders do cycles and between cycles they go off or do TRT. If you are going to do a heavy cycle, I think you really need to either go off or do REAL physiological TRT between cycles. "Bridging" by doing a "mini-cycle" between seems like the surest route to both damage your health and to minimize your gains on your next cycle. Those of us doing cycles and TRT probably want to get off the AI at some point during the year also and the only real way to do this is to do physiological levels of T.

Now the other group who wants to look good naked year round, that is going to be difficult, I don't think permanently being double your natural test level is realistic long term, especially because you will have to be on other ancillaries also. You can do it, but I personally think cycling/real trt is the way to go for health (and gains for that matter).
 
Here is the issue with all these thread IMO, on PM we have a mix of two main kinds, those that are bodybuilders (compete or not, doesn't matter) and those that are trying to look good naked year round. Bodybuilders do cycles and between cycles they go off or do TRT. If you are going to do a heavy cycle, I think you really need to either go off or do REAL physiological TRT between cycles. "Bridging" by doing a "mini-cycle" between seems like the surest route to both damage your health and to minimize your gains on your next cycle. Those of us doing cycles and TRT probably want to get off the AI at some point during the year also and the only real way to do this is to do physiological levels of T.



Now the other group who wants to look good naked year round, that is going to be difficult, I don't think permanently being double your natural test level is realistic long term, especially because you will have to be on other ancillaries also. You can do it, but I personally think cycling/real trt is the way to go for health (and gains for that matter).
I am still a newbie but tend to agree. I have not done anything other than test so far.

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Get bloodwork on the doses u are taking now and go from there so u are not just guessing if your E2 is in the correct range or not. Also the more frequent u do your shots the less u seem to convert to estrogen.
 
Get bloodwork on the doses u are taking now and go from there so u are not just guessing if your E2 is in the correct range or not. Also the more frequent u do your shots the less u seem to convert to estrogen.
My thing is this: I was at 36 E2 at one point and still had gyno symptoms. I was told at 36 I should be fine but I'm not fine. This was my first cycle about a year ago. So how is a number going to help me more than what I'm actually feeling and seeing? Respectfully saying this. I appreciate all input.

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My thing is this: I was at 36 E2 at one point and still had gyno symptoms. I was told at 36 I should be fine but I'm not fine. This was my first cycle about a year ago. So how is a number going to help me more than what I'm actually feeling and seeing? Respectfully saying this. I appreciate all input.

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Gyno symptoms from 36 are probably from prolactin or left over from gyno being high before the bloodwork was done. Gyno will always be a little puffy unless you have it removed or you completely block e2 which is unhealthy and will only reduce it some (works well on mild gyno but isn't a permanent solution). Mild gyno paranoia is probably the cause of most AI overuse.
 
Gyno symptoms from 36 are probably from prolactin or left over from gyno being high before the bloodwork was done. Gyno will always be a little puffy unless you have it removed or you completely block e2 which is unhealthy and will only reduce it some (works well on mild gyno but isn't a permanent solution). Mild gyno paranoia is probably the cause of most AI overuse.
Prolactin increase from a test only cycle?

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I have a fatty tumor that in my brain that causes high prolactin. I'm on bromo year round and when I run a 19nor I use caber e3d plus my daily bromo.


Is it fatty gyno or inflamed glands?

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Studies on cadavers have found that 1 in 5-6 people have these pituitary tumors, sometimes significantly altering hormone levels, sometimes not...
 
I can feel the lump behind my nipple and see some puffiness surrounding the areola.

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I can feel the lump behind my nipple and see some puffiness surrounding the areola.

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I would go pull bloods in my own experience that has been do to prolactin. Why you would be producing enough prolactin to cause gyno on the little gear that you are on is a mystery but only blood work will give you a solid answer.

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