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Action/Reaction TRT Protocol

bad rad

Well-known member
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Mar 26, 2017
Messages
1,083
This is based upon a cruising protocol from ALR that I read over a decade ago. I never tried it but it always looked good on paper. My thoughts behind use for TRT is the steady reduction in libido some experience on stable hormone levels. Many of us experience a libido boost when raising or lowering our dosage and that's the main hypothesis behind this. Your body doesn't see constant state levels but a more natural ebb and flood of hormones (dosing aside). My bloods look great but my mental aspects to libido have sucked for a long time.

Day 1: Testosterone but dosed at max 1mg/lb of BW (I'm trying 210mg since that's 1mL)
Day 8: Repeat day one
Day 9-21: 100-500iu hCG daily. I'm using about 300iu since that's the dose that gives me solid results without the higher E2. In research >300iu per dose causes E2 spikes. My TRT is 200iu 5 days weekly from my Doc.

Basically a two week on/off of each hormone but with overlap. No AI are supposed to be taken and due to the constant flux in hormones you're not supposed to experience elevated E2. I can stay on 200mg Test for 2-3 weeks before E2 gets problematic and this dose of hCG doesn't elevate my E2. I'll probably give it a go for the rest of the year.

Anyway, just a post to start a discussion but I'll report back in a few weeks to see how it treats me.
 
Last edited:
sounds intresting i take it your using test cyp?

Yes. This requires longer acting testosterone esters like Cyp, Ent, isocaproate, etc.
 
i, and science, always prefer a steady dose of micro dosing of hormones ED. even when using long esters. naturally our balls produce very small amounts each day, ED dosing mimics this and i feel the best on this much better then once a week or god forbig once every 2 weeks that must be hell on earth for poor saps doing this
 
I've been daily dosing for 2 years but my libido went to crap. Also my testes have steadily shrunk during this time although I included hCG. This is a few weeks of experiment.
 
there is something about flucuating levels that seems to be better for my libido than just being stable all the time
i read another proticale where somebody increased there dose ever week for 3 weeks then took a week off ever month i will be intrested of how you feel on this protocal
another member here seems to do well injecting test prop only 3 days a week than daily
 
I've read of alternating 300/100mgs each week too. I think there is something to this from a mental standpoint. Your body shouldn't ever fully adapt to either of these hormones using this protocol. The dose is based on my daily dosing TRT requirements. I need 20mg/daily to maintain decent serum testosterone levels so my 3 week average is equivalent. I wish I had tried this when I wasn't so beat up and could evaluate the performance differences too.
 
i would like to try this but perfer using test prop or even tne micronized but doing 2 weeks on 2 off with hcg seems intresting im sure many will shoot it down but there is no harm to try
sadly is seems trt has no cookie cutter approach that we can all follow and get good results with libido ECT
try and keep this thread updated when you can thanks
 
i would like to try this but perfer using test prop or even tne micronized but doing 2 weeks on 2 off with hcg seems intresting im sure many will shoot it down but there is no harm to try
sadly is seems trt has no cookie cutter approach that we can all follow and get good results with libido ECT
try and keep this thread updated when you can thanks

I've been on TRT for over a decade and haven't ever done something like this. My body adapts to steady state anything very quickly. Hopefully this is protocol keeps it guessing. Adding low dose Clomid to the hCG days hypothetically helps your pituitary stay sensitive but I won't hold my breath on that one. I started day 1 on Sunday and already have much clearer thinking than I've had in years.
 
I get the adaptation thing as well and have tried once a week, EOD and ED dosing. All keeping the overall dose between 100 -150 mg/w. Some months ago I shifted things to every other week. the last few days I could feel a little brain fog and slight anxiety. But, the next dose of test it would feel really great. the sex dive was way better as well.

I had bought into the brologic of steady state and it just doesn't work that way for me as well. I ahve also heard of success with 100/300 alternation working well. People may not realize that testosterone levels flux throughout the day so levels are NOT steady state in the normal eugonadal male. They FLUX.

Taking that bolus week after week just gives a rise and then gradually a trough without much fluctuation to be detected by the body. The body is looking for a flux. Seems we may not all be as sensitive to the flux or lack thereof. Emeric seems to do well with the 10 mg/d routine and one would assume that gives a very similar pattern compared to eugonadal patterning. It seems to work well for its of folks. Not so great for me for whatever reason.

A few years ago I went against all the "laws" of bioscience and rotated compounds in a cycle week by week. I was told that I would have all sorts of side effects. So I politely gave everyone the finger and did it anyway. I wanted to have good sex drive throughout instead of the good drive first few weeks and then the drop-off I had been experiencing for years. So not TRT but was something like this:

Test C/Mast E
Test C/Primo E
Test C/NPP
EQ only
repeat

I also sprinkled in Tren Ace or Anavar for a few weeks on and off. Total dose never exceeded 1 gram/w. The result was LOWER side effects than normal cycle. Sex drive was way better and peaked the EQ week. The overall idea was to have compounds rising and falling throughout, the exact opposite of bro dogma. I have done the majority of my cycles like this since. I'm pretty much done with cycling due to age and changing life goals but that's what I ahve found.

I would say experiment within reason to find your sweet spots and what jives with your chemistry. I didn't invent this alternation strategy. I think Milos Sarchev professed this for years. I think you can find him debating other gurus here and there on youtube. He seems to be scratching into the wind with some of his ideas but this particular one seems to work for me as I adjusted it for my personal use.

Then again, sometimes I just keep things simple for TRT and not give 2 cents about sex drive or this and that. After 35 years of marriage I'd rather sit on the couch rather than chase her winded ass around it.
 
i really think there is something to it and not keeping doses steady but still need to find what doses work and are best for your self
Big rad have you thought of using Toremifene
instead of clomid? i heard has less sides
 
Regarding rotating compounds there was this infamous British steroid guru dude named Paul Borresen, AFAIK, he was active during early 00's. His methods were very controversial at that time (and still are), but he was advocating doing multiple compounds injecting ed, something like:
day 1: 250mg test-e
day 2: 250mg EQ
day 3: 250mg DECA
day 4: 100mg NPP
etc.

Basically, one was injecting a cc of different compound each day for 7 days straight. I don't really remember specific protocols, but his approach was blasting like this for 4 weeks, then off for some time, then repeat, at any point of time you had plenty of different drugs in your system, but there was never like one compound in particular dosed high.
Probably some of older members have heard of this guy and his protocols.
 
i really think there is something to it and not keeping doses steady but still need to find what doses work and are best for your self
Big rad have you thought of using Toremifene
instead of clomid? i heard has less sides

I haven't but the tide cycle behind my thoughts is very old, ie, before toremifene.
 
Regarding rotating compounds there was this infamous British steroid guru dude named Paul Borresen, AFAIK, he was active during early 00's. His methods were very controversial at that time (and still are), but he was advocating doing multiple compounds injecting ed, something like:
day 1: 250mg test-e
day 2: 250mg EQ
day 3: 250mg DECA
day 4: 100mg NPP
etc.

Basically, one was injecting a cc of different compound each day for 7 days straight. I don't really remember specific protocols, but his approach was blasting like this for 4 weeks, then off for some time, then repeat, at any point of time you had plenty of different drugs in your system, but there was never like one compound in particular dosed high.
Probably some of older members have heard of this guy and his protocols.

Paul recommended 1000mg+ daily for 18-21 days, 21 days off, then a very low dose (~700mgs) consolidation cycle for 7 week. His cycles are for very advanced competitors that need super high levels to stimulate growth. The loss of effectiveness is partially due to action/reaction factors. Something this style of TRT attempts to stay ahead of.

I'm only on the first week so no feedback yet to report.
 
I get the adaptation thing as well and have tried once a week, EOD and ED dosing. All keeping the overall dose between 100 -150 mg/w. Some months ago I shifted things to every other week. the last few days I could feel a little brain fog and slight anxiety. But, the next dose of test it would feel really great. the sex dive was way better as well.

I had bought into the brologic of steady state and it just doesn't work that way for me as well. I ahve also heard of success with 100/300 alternation working well. People may not realize that testosterone levels flux throughout the day so levels are NOT steady state in the normal eugonadal male. They FLUX.

Taking that bolus week after week just gives a rise and then gradually a trough without much fluctuation to be detected by the body. The body is looking for a flux. Seems we may not all be as sensitive to the flux or lack thereof. Emeric seems to do well with the 10 mg/d routine and one would assume that gives a very similar pattern compared to eugonadal patterning. It seems to work well for its of folks. Not so great for me for whatever reason.

A few years ago I went against all the "laws" of bioscience and rotated compounds in a cycle week by week. I was told that I would have all sorts of side effects. So I politely gave everyone the finger and did it anyway. I wanted to have good sex drive throughout instead of the good drive first few weeks and then the drop-off I had been experiencing for years. So not TRT but was something like this:

Test C/Mast E
Test C/Primo E
Test C/NPP
EQ only
repeat

I also sprinkled in Tren Ace or Anavar for a few weeks on and off. Total dose never exceeded 1 gram/w. The result was LOWER side effects than normal cycle. Sex drive was way better and peaked the EQ week. The overall idea was to have compounds rising and falling throughout, the exact opposite of bro dogma. I have done the majority of my cycles like this since. I'm pretty much done with cycling due to age and changing life goals but that's what I ahve found.

I would say experiment within reason to find your sweet spots and what jives with your chemistry. I didn't invent this alternation strategy. I think Milos Sarchev professed this for years. I think you can find him debating other gurus here and there on youtube. He seems to be scratching into the wind with some of his ideas but this particular one seems to work for me as I adjusted it for my personal use.

Then again, sometimes I just keep things simple for TRT and not give 2 cents about sex drive or this and that. After 35 years of marriage I'd rather sit on the couch rather than chase her winded ass around it.

This makes a lot of sense from mitigating sides affects since dose + duration is the stimulus for them. Having the constant rise and fall keeps the body from overly reacting.
 
Paul recommended 1000mg+ daily for 18-21 days, 21 days off, then a very low dose (~700mgs) consolidation cycle for 7 week. His cycles are for very advanced competitors that need super high levels to stimulate growth. The loss of effectiveness is partially due to action/reaction factors. Something this style of TRT attempts to stay ahead of.

I'm only on the first week so no feedback yet to report.

Thanks for clarification. After reading your original post, I did some googling and found ARL book named "Building the perfect beast", did read it a bit and noticed that "action/reaction" is mentioned there a lot. Very dense book. Also what I noticed is that protocols mentioned there are short as well and employ high dosages for a short period followed by "consolidation period" sort of. I really like the idea of all this, since from my personal experience I kind of stop gaining after those 6-8 weeks too and just get tired. Perhaps this idea of optimizing all the health markers before blast and keeping it short, but intense is a viable option for a novice, small (190lbs) gymrat like me. Since it looks like everyone is doing long, stretched out blasts these days?

Anyhow, thank you for posting this topic, I got some food for thought and will with interest wait for an update to your protocol.
 
Thanks for clarification. After reading your original post, I did some googling and found ARL book named "Building the perfect beast", did read it a bit and noticed that "action/reaction" is mentioned there a lot. Very dense book. Also what I noticed is that protocols mentioned there are short as well and employ high dosages for a short period followed by "consolidation period" sort of. I really like the idea of all this, since from my personal experience I kind of stop gaining after those 6-8 weeks too and just get tired. Perhaps this idea of optimizing all the health markers before blast and keeping it short, but intense is a viable option for a novice, small (190lbs) gymrat like me. Since it looks like everyone is doing long, stretched out blasts these days?

Anyhow, thank you for posting this topic, I got some food for thought and will with interest wait for an update to your protocol.

This has its roots in ALR's Low Dose Anabolic phase. I tried a few of his lower dosed Max Androgen phases but grew better on lower and longer cycles. I still grow on 300mgs Test at 5'10" @ 240lbs solid. I'm the runt but we're big framed people.
 
i, and science, always prefer a steady dose of micro dosing of hormones ED. even when using long esters. naturally our balls produce very small amounts each day, ED dosing mimics this and i feel the best on this much better then once a week or god forbig once every 2 weeks that must be hell on earth for poor saps doing this
I always did wonder how I would respond to a daily morning dose of TNE or suspension to closer mimic nature. I may try that next time I have some around.

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk
 
i, and science, always prefer a steady dose of micro dosing of hormones ED. even when using long esters. naturally our balls produce very small amounts each day, ED dosing mimics this and i feel the best on this much better then once a week or god forbig once every 2 weeks that must be hell on earth for poor saps doing this

Logic aside, show me the studies. I'll save you the time since there is only one testing daily dosing. Results were it is well tolerated just like weekly injections.
 
I always did wonder how I would respond to a daily morning dose of TNE or suspension to closer mimic nature. I may try that next time I have some around.

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

i have been toying with this idea too
 

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