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MUSCLE MEMORY...MENTAL OR PHYSICAL?

Geardepot

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From a technical standpoint...Muscle memory is a form of procedural memory that involves consolidating a specific motor task into memory through repetition, which has been used synonymously with motor learning. When a movement is repeated over time, a long-term muscle memory is created for that task, eventually allowing it to be performed without conscious effort. This process decreases the need for attention and creates maximum efficiency within the motor and memory systems. Examples of muscle memory are found in many everyday activities that become automatic and improve with practice, such as riding a bicycle, typing on a keyboard, entering a PIN, playing a musical instrument, poker, martial arts or even dancing. When you first perform a movement (whether that’s a dance move, a bodyweight squat, or a yoga pose), it may feel a little clunky and awkward. You have to think about what you’re doing and listen to what your coach or instructor is telling you in order to perform the movement correctly. With enough practice, however, the movement begins to get easier. We don’t have to think about what we’re doing–we sort of just do it. This happens not only because we are gaining strength, stamina, and flexibility, but also because we are gaining body awareness, motor control, and neuromuscular efficiency...muscle memory. But is muscle memory mental or physical? I found this to be an interesting read.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/...uscle-memory-it-s-in-your-head-not-your-limbs. Let me know what you guys think.
GD
 
oh boy... lol :eek::eek:
interesting/misunderstood complicated subject right here! lol

muscle memory i think has much less to do with actual muscle then it does with cns:lightbulb: this is a thoery i have sort of based my training around for a number of years and it kind of seems to work. lol plus random life explosions have given me the opportunity to rebuild so many times that i have played around with it quite a bit...

so why we get stronger when we lift is by and large cns adaptation by creating new nerve innervations. these are like points where the cns connects to the muscle, the body wants to be as efficient as possible at repeating various movements. this how the idea of progressive training gets maped out.

setting up a workout so that exercises are repeated in way to create new pr each time. super basic dc training 101 shows how this is done.

idk all the truely scientific bs that goes into detail but this process takes some time 6-8 weeks and then sort of stalls. it is not continious in the body. we can also see this play out in the gym.

you create these new nerve connections and then need to mantian them. if not they go away. once you have made that initial connection it seems much eiasier to bring them back.

when you take time off after developing yourself to whatever various extent it was you are basically just waking up all the connections that you have previously made. even though you may be using less weight your body has the same potential as before so this new more efficient you wakes up so getting back to the previous best you is fast and easy,from there progress can obviously slow/stall greatly.

figuring out how to sort of do this made understand more the low dose talk that many see/hear advanced guys say but often dont believe. as if you do the training part and recovery part right then you can also work the aas part in. in that yes bigger doses get you places but then you can actually maintane that place with trt dose.

muscle memory=cns
 
Both.
From the mental side, you have already experimented w/ your body for years, so you already know which movements, how many sets/reps, how many BP's per week, diet, etc....... give you your best gains.

You arent wasting any time....you go back knowing exactly what to do, for your body to make best responses.

+ the physical part, permanent changes already made

= MM is real.
 
Mostly the brain re-learns how to fire off the nerves in the CNS in a more efficient pattern to make the activity easier. Humans are all about doing things easier. That is what survival is all about.
 
Mostly the brain re-learns how to fire off the nerves in the CNS in a more efficient pattern to make the activity easier. Humans are all about doing things easier. That is what survival is all about.

I agree. The strength gains a person makes in the gym when they first come back from a long lay off are incredible, but at the same time they don't find themselves putting on a lot of weight. Muscle isn't built at all, its all nervous system efficiency. Once the fast strength gains stop, about 8 weeks or so into training, then the strength gained is much more due to muscle building. Strength gains come real slow and you slowly gain weight.
 
I had a completely different experience.

I came off a 10+ year layoff. Had done 10+ years as natty in the past. Knew what movements worked for me and what didn't. Already knew my genetics, strengths, weaknesses, flaws, etc.
Fixed diet.
Concentrated on light weights, and making the first rep feel as hard as the last. Didnt count reps. Had no interest in gaining strength.
3 months in, had completely changed my body, lost dramatic fat, added a lot of muscle. I think I gained like 1.5" on my arms (16-17.5). My buddy who was ectomorph (nice frame, bad muscle genetics) on UG stuff, thought i was using, but it was MM.

Then I quit again, due to illnesses. My original plan was to go natty for 6-months to a year, get close to old weight/fat, then explore inj supplementation, but got ill.

Just my experience.
 
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I had a completely different experience.

I came off a 10+ year layoff. Had done 10+ years as natty in the past. Knew what movements worked for me and what didn't. Already knew my genetics, strengths, weaknesses, flaws, etc.
Fixed diet.
Concentrated on light weights, and making the first rep feel as hard as the last. Didnt count reps. Had no interest in gaining strength.
3 months in, had completely changed my body, lost dramatic fat, added a lot of muscle. I think I gained like 1.5" on my arms (16-17.5). My buddy who was ectomorph (nice frame, bad muscle genetics) on UG stuff, thought i was using, but it was MM.

Then I quit again, due to illnesses. My original plan was to go natty for 6-months to a year, get close to old weight/fat, then explore inj supplementation, but got ill.

Just my experience.

Ten years is a very long time. Not sure how long it takes most people to lose as much as they are going to lose, but you were definitely there. How much weight did you lose during those 10 years, lean body mass you think?

Makes sense that you grew. I bet though if you think about your strength gains, most of it came during the first 2 or 3 months?
 
Ten years is a very long time. Not sure how long it takes most people to lose as much as they are going to lose, but you were definitely there. How much weight did you lose during those 10 years, lean body mass you think?

Makes sense that you grew. I bet though if you think about your strength gains, most of it came during the first 2 or 3 months?

Thank you.
Ummmm....I'll try to remember best I can.

Originally 140-lb adult at 11-ishBF, Tiny tiny frame/ribcage/joints/muscles/etc, 5'8".
Lots of skeletal and muscle-insertion flaws. Bad natural proportions.
From the biggining, honest assessments, always spending much more time on flaws, than easier/better parts. Intensity was always 100%....I wasnt in there to look great/ego....I was in there to look normal. Whole different deal....intensity, work ethic came not from trying to build ego/looks, but from desperation.
In 1000 yrs when the archaeologist dig up my skeleton, they will think they found the grave of a 12 year old ballerina, lol. Cursed by God, in the genetics dept.

Anyways, worked hard/smart/experimented/etc for 10 yrs, consistent lean muscle growth. Did lots of experimenting, everything from lotta sets to Mentzer/Yates style, I remember I was always pyramidding to heavy. The poundage was important to me at that time, tried to move heavy weights
Finally got into the 190-195 area, 30-32" waist (genetic waist was 28" before weight training), 18"(pumped)arms, thick back/traps, chest, tris, OK legs, shredded but zero calves/forearms (cursed). Maybe 12-13%, had some visible abs. Then walked away from it.


almost 15 years later (quit in 1999 I think, came back in i think 2014), Came back at 192 @ approx 30%BF, 16" arms. Physical strength was at a zero.
1st month, Fixed diet and trained w/ 5-lb dumbbells, 10-lb barbell, trying to relearn movements, trying to reconnect mind-muscle.

2nd and 3rd month, lite-medium weights, Lotta pyramid warmups at 50% failure, to heat/blood muscle/joints.
1 set-per good-genetic muscles, 2-3 sets for bad genetic muscles till failure.
Tried to make first rep feel as hard as last, did not start to count reps until, pain set in. Always to and past failure. 1 bodypart per week.
Spent as much time doing painful/controlled/blissful fascial stretching, as I did actually moving weights.

If I was using a 50-lb barbell for curls on a regular, once in a while I would pick up a 100 and do it, if I started using a 60-lb barbell, I could then do a 120-lb if I wanted. so I was getting dramatically stronger through it all, even though I was working w/ light/medium weights, and super high reps (but again, I was making first rep hurt/hard)......I was definitional getting stronger, could have used more/twice weight, just didnt want to.

What I came away knowing, in regard to strength, was regardless of the lite weights I was using, the ability to use heavyier weights was quickly growing, even though I stayed away from anything other than lite/med weights. There was no correlation to gaining strength through having to use heavier weights. For me, w/in that time frame, anyways.


in three months I was at 196 @ approx 16-17%. Arms were are 17.5 pumped. All of my good bodyparts grew fast, all of my bad bodyparts grew slow....my genetics had never changed at all. I looked like a worse version of my previous version, same shape/structure/etc.
My physique had changed dramatically in those 3 months. My UGL friend who was obsessed w/ heavy weights & a million sets, thought I was using gear, because i was lifting baby weights and not doing many sets and body was changing fast..
I did NOT have good genetics, I had 10yrs of work-ethic/knowledge of my body, and MM. imho.

Got ill, had to stop. Had I not gotten ill, I believe I would have hit my old wt/Bf w/in the next 3-6 months. If so, then Less than a year to almost replicate 10 years worth of previous work.

Hope this helps, I have been as honest and as specific as I can remember.
 
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Both.
From the mental side, you have already experimented w/ your body for years, so you already know which movements, how many sets/reps, how many BP's per week, diet, etc....... give you your best gains.

You arent wasting any time....you go back knowing exactly what to do, for your body to make best responses.

+ the physical part, permanent changes already made

= MM is real.
I agree completely! Thank God for muscle memory. It sure helps when you’re coming back after a lay off due to injury.
 
I think there is definitely a physical element. I question if it is due to previously stretched fascia tissue allowing for "quicker" progress, aka geting back your prior muscle mass
 
Driving a wedge between the mental and the physical is problematic, not because human consciousness is completely reducible to biological phenomena, but because they are intrinsically connected.
 
both

Don’t have a definitive answer on the mental part but it cannot
be downplayed or ignored. Having been there, done that, can
overcome, facilitate, the resolution of many ‘problems’ which
otherwise would have been thought impossible.

As far as the physical part . . . it is my opinion and observation
that the longer you have ‘held’ that muscular size, the faster
(and easier?) it will be to regains after a lay off.

Another way of looking at it is, say you are twenty years of
age and have a muscular, not fat or oil filled eighteen inch
arm. And you maintain that size arm for ten years. If you
quit working out completely for a few years, when you
start training again, you will, all other things being equal
(excluding age) regain that previous size in a shorter
amount of time that a person who had that size arm for
only let’s say, for a year or two.

So . . . the short answer is the longer you have it, the faster
you will get it back.

It’s kinda like what they call a ‘set point’ with regards to your
bodyweight. The longer you are ‘there’ the more likely your
body will want to return to that point as it deems it as a
normal state if that makes any sense.

Having had very few true layoffs in my lifetime, whenever
I do resume training, I regain to my previous best very
quickly, my size and strength literally improving noticeable
overnight.

The only exception was when I was at my biggest (which
was certainly not big compared to some of the real body-
builders here), but only for a relatively short period of
time. And I have never been able to recreate my previous
best and I think much has to do with the passing of time
(and other conditions that I found impossible to recreate)
and also the relatively short time I ‘held’ that condition.

This is all natural. Zero supplements of any kind.

I cannot speak with much authority about the influence of
drugs but will say, when used properly, they are clearly a
game changer. And if introduced into your physique when
attempting to rebuild your physique to its prior condition,
if not used before to reach that condition, then I think it
changes the equation beyond my ability to comment. But I
will say anecdotally it will be faster and potentially easier,
but never easy.
 
I think there is definitely a physical element. I question if it is due to previously stretched fascia tissue allowing for "quicker" progress, aka geting back your prior muscle mass

I think there is truth in this. I think the fascia is neglected in bed-genetic bodyparts. Possible correlation, at least in theory.

I tend to think fascia is responsible for 'bad' calves.
Going back in time, I had a geneticly bad proportionate body (skeletal), but all muscles grew, some little faster than others, but they all grew. My whole deal was trying to keep skeletally proportionate, so I was using muscle to fix skeletal proportionate problems.

Calves, from day 1 in oldschool hardcore gym, calves were my worst and most targeted/important BP.
Trained them anywhere from 3 days to 7 days a week, for 10yrs. Every movement, every rep range, 100's, everything.
Always started w/ calves, full focus.
Pushed into blinding pain, blinding pain. Stretches/etc.

Anywhere from 11/13%BF throughout the years, but my calves were shredded.....unlike the rest of my body, calves were shredded. When I would flex them, looked/felt like sea shells.....no other bodypart was even close in visible/tactile musculature. Probably strongest calves in the gym, on tiny body.

Would not grow.....But they would pump-up, swell up during calf workout, and grow as long as forced blood was in them. As soon as blood would seep out, GONE, still shredded, but diameter gone. They wanted to grow, but they couldnt.
I remember thinking back then that it was tight/resistant fascia, that was causing my problems. I remember thinking I needed to get the fascia sliced/split.

Your post made me remember all that.......I think there is a link between fascia and properly trained bad calves, or other 'bad' body parts......
 
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I think there is truth in this. I think the fascia is neglected in bed-genetic bodyparts. Possible correlation, at least in theory.

I tend to think fascia is responsible for 'bad' calves.
Going back in time, I had a geneticly bad proportionate body (skeletal), but all muscles grew, some little faster than others, but they all grew. My whole deal was trying to keep skeletally proportionate, so I was using muscle to fix skeletal proportionate problems.

Calves, from day 1 in oldschool hardcore gym, calves were my worst and most targeted/important BP.
Trained them anywhere from 3 days to 7 days a week, for 10yrs. Every movement, every rep range, 100's, everything.
Always started w/ calves, full focus.
Pushed into blinding pain, blinding pain. Stretches/etc.

Anywhere from 11/13%BF throughout the years, but my calves were shredded.....unlike the rest of my body, calves were shredded. When I would flex them, looked/felt like sea shells.....no other bodypart was even close in visible/tactile musculature. Probably strongest calves in the gym, on tiny body.

Would not grow.....But they would pump-up, swell up during calf workout, and grow as long as forced blood was in them. As soon as blood would seep out, GONE, still shredded, but diameter gone. They wanted to grow, but they couldnt.
I remember thinking back then that it was tight/resistant fascia, that was causing my problems. I remember thinking I needed to get the fascia sliced/split.

Your post made me remember all that.......I think there is a link between fascia and properly trained bad calves, or other 'bad' body parts......

I remember reading in the 90s about bodybuilders having fascia sliced surgically to allow for greater growth.

On a related note, ive always stretched between chest exercises. I think it started when i was a teen and just wanted to waste time before my next set. I never consistently did it for other bodyparts and perhaps not surprisingly my chest has always been big relative the rest of my body (benched 350 in high school at around 200lbs). In hindsight, I think the stretching led to fascia expansion and allowed my chest to grow more quickly.
Recently, I started to incorporate stretches across all bodyparts (a la DC).
 
Both. Without a doubt both. I kind of liken muscle memory to riding a bike. Even though you have not ridden a bike in30 yrs you can get on and ride it down the road.
 
I remember reading in the 90s about bodybuilders having fascia sliced surgically to allow for greater growth.

On a related note, ive always stretched between chest exercises. I think it started when i was a teen and just wanted to waste time before my next set. I never consistently did it for other bodyparts and perhaps not surprisingly my chest has always been big relative the rest of my body (benched 350 in high school at around 200lbs). In hindsight, I think the stretching led to fascia expansion and allowed my chest to grow more quickly.
Recently, I started to incorporate stretches across all bodyparts (a la DC).

Yes!
If I remember right, it was Vince Taylor that was thought to have had his calf fascia split. Rumor came and went pretty quickly.
I am not a Dr, I dont even know if it would be medically possible/feasible, to cut fascia w/out causing other problems.
Parillo is the one who brought fascia stretching to the forefront. I always stretched, and fascia stretched, as much as I lifted weights, and always had good/continued natty muscle growth....except calves.

I agree w/ you, fascia is muscle containment.....
 

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