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Thoughts on 600mg Test/900mg EQ

Slyder190

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Jul 23, 2009
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So for me personally even using an AI and proper PCT protocol or in recent years 300mg/week Test in between cycles, I always noticeably lose mass. I have used 750-900mg Test a week when on an actual cycle. I have kept on calories.
What are your thoughts on keeping test at 600mg/week and running a higher doss of EQ at 900/mg week? More keepable gains and/or less obvious loss? Anyone use a similar strategy?
 
I personally like Eq and for me the sweet spot is between 800mg/wk to 1000mg/wk. But everyone is different and some people respond better to deca at around 600mg/wk.
Keep in mind for me EQ doesn't really start to shine till around weeks 12-14 so you have to run it for a long time
 
In my experience EQ is a waste of money. Anything so weak that it has to be run at such high doses for so long has no place in my toolbox. With test I prefer Deca by far. Those two are my bread and butter...and no, no odd Deca issues.

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk
 
Describe what you mean by lose mass assuming on your 300 mg/w cruise. You should lose the steroid pump which is probably 5-8 lbs. Frankly, you should expect to lose some size when going off or during a cruise. This is part of the process. Actually, getting off (when young and HPTA recoverable) is probably one of the most important parts of the lifestyle. You are desensitizing the body to androgens during this period. It takes at least 8 weeks. When you are young and cycling "properly" your first 4-5 cycles you should be able to recover pretty quickly. So by week 12 off cycle your bloods should be well into normal range. If not than you are one of the unfortunate ones that either started to young, abused them to much already, or are genetically predisposed to major disruptions of HPTA.

Another question for you might be what kind of training are you doing. Heavy compounds lifts are the key to real mass gains. Deadlifts, squats, bench, over head press from the rack, inclines, bent BB rows.. these are the staples for growth.

Another think is expectations. Average or somewhat above average men might expect 20 lbs gain first cycle. Post cycle it is not uncommon to hold onto 12 of those lbs when all is said and done. subsequent cycles are usually not that dramatic. So by cycle 5 you might put on 15 lbs but drop 8-10 after the off cycle an if you stay off long enough you might lose another 3-5 lbs. Once you go over your genetic limit holding those gains are pretty difficult.

Personally I put on up to ~ 50 lbs. Then when I went off for 10 years in the end I kept abut 20 lbs of that. To put back the lost 30 lbs takes cycle after cycle and timing and some yoyoing and increasing of dose and diminishing health markers.
 
Describe what you mean by lose mass assuming on your 300 mg/w cruise. You should lose the steroid pump which is probably 5-8 lbs. Frankly, you should expect to lose some size when going off or during a cruise. This is part of the process. Actually, getting off (when young and HPTA recoverable) is probably one of the most important parts of the lifestyle. You are desensitizing the body to androgens during this period. It takes at least 8 weeks. When you are young and cycling "properly" your first 4-5 cycles you should be able to recover pretty quickly. So by week 12 off cycle your bloods should be well into normal range. If not than you are one of the unfortunate ones that either started to young, abused them to much already, or are genetically predisposed to major disruptions of HPTA.

Another question for you might be what kind of training are you doing. Heavy compounds lifts are the key to real mass gains. Deadlifts, squats, bench, over head press from the rack, inclines, bent BB rows.. these are the staples for growth.

Another think is expectations. Average or somewhat above average men might expect 20 lbs gain first cycle. Post cycle it is not uncommon to hold onto 12 of those lbs when all is said and done. subsequent cycles are usually not that dramatic. So by cycle 5 you might put on 15 lbs but drop 8-10 after the off cycle an if you stay off long enough you might lose another 3-5 lbs. Once you go over your genetic limit holding those gains are pretty difficult.

Personally I put on up to ~ 50 lbs. Then when I went off for 10 years in the end I kept abut 20 lbs of that. To put back the lost 30 lbs takes cycle after cycle and timing and some yoyoing and increasing of dose and diminishing health markers.

:yeahthat: very good points,


Slyder190 whats your weight and bf% ?
 
I’m not so sure that running eq helps keep your gains more then any other compound from experience. I believe people think it’s on the weaker side and choose to run it at higher doses and with it’s extremely long half life it stay in your system for such a long time after your last shot which makes people think there not losing there gains but it’s only because they still have a shit ton of eq in there system weeks after there last shot. Who knows I could be wrong just observation.
 
I always like EQ and didn't need to run it in large doses. As for loosing mass. The drug you used to gain the muscle will not make any difference once you are off. The water weight may be more with some. But your training and diet will the bigger factor in what you retain.
 
Describe what you mean by lose mass assuming on your 300 mg/w cruise. You should lose the steroid pump which is probably 5-8 lbs. Frankly, you should expect to lose some size when going off or during a cruise. This is part of the process. Actually, getting off (when young and HPTA recoverable) is probably one of the most important parts of the lifestyle. You are desensitizing the body to androgens during this period. It takes at least 8 weeks. When you are young and cycling "properly" your first 4-5 cycles you should be able to recover pretty quickly. So by week 12 off cycle your bloods should be well into normal range. If not than you are one of the unfortunate ones that either started to young, abused them to much already, or are genetically predisposed to major disruptions of HPTA.

Another question for you might be what kind of training are you doing. Heavy compounds lifts are the key to real mass gains. Deadlifts, squats, bench, over head press from the rack, inclines, bent BB rows.. these are the staples for growth.

Another think is expectations. Average or somewhat above average men might expect 20 lbs gain first cycle. Post cycle it is not uncommon to hold onto 12 of those lbs when all is said and done. subsequent cycles are usually not that dramatic. So by cycle 5 you might put on 15 lbs but drop 8-10 after the off cycle an if you stay off long enough you might lose another 3-5 lbs. Once you go over your genetic limit holding those gains are pretty difficult.

Personally I put on up to ~ 50 lbs. Then when I went off for 10 years in the end I kept abut 20 lbs of that. To put back the lost 30 lbs takes cycle after cycle and timing and some yoyoing and increasing of dose and diminishing health markers.

THIS.

Also, the only way you are losing mass is if you are jumping to a lower dose (or off completely) AND lowering your calories with it. You need to keep feeding the machine to hold onto that weight.
Secondly, I think you're eyes are playing tricks on you. With high test dosages, you'll lose 5-8 like others have mentioned. AND you lose the fullness and pump that come with higher dosages. You basically just don't look as good. This isn't losing mass, this is losing all the other benefits of being ON.

Jordan Peters was just on the It's Just Bodybuilding Podcast with Dusty Hanshaw and Ron Partlow and talked about this. He said that he just looks like shit (for him) when he cruises. He loses the pump, the fullness, the overall look and drops weight. But he knows that it's just water weight and gear and that once he holds onto that new mass and gets back on, everything will change.

You just need to change your perception of cruising.
 
Igf1-lr3 seems to help after a cycle to keep that pumped look. Maybe it's just me but that stuff keeps me full.
 
I think it being keepable has to do with how much of it is actually muscle and not just water/glycogen and how long you held on to it before reducing dose/cruising. EQ doesn't hold a lot of water (for me at least) and is normally ran in longer cycles so I think that's why it's gains are considered more keepable. It's easy to lose 5-10lbs of water/glycogen which makes you look smaller and feel a lil weaker but you don't lose any actual muscle. If this is what you mean than that's just gonna happen but if your losing muscle then unless your well over your natty prime then diet training and supps may need adjustment. mk677 can help stay full off cycle.
 
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So for me personally even using an AI and proper PCT protocol or in recent years 300mg/week Test in between cycles, I always noticeably lose mass. I have used 750-900mg Test a week when on an actual cycle. I have kept on calories.
What are your thoughts on keeping test at 600mg/week and running a higher doss of EQ at 900/mg week? More keepable gains and/or less obvious loss? Anyone use a similar strategy?

Assuming your diet, training, etc., remains basically the same during your downtime, you shouldn't be losing much, if any, muscle tissue when using 300 mg of test/week.

Sure, you will lose overall size, fullness and strength, but there is a difference between that and actual muscle fiber. For example, let's say someone is using 1 gram and 800 mg primo per week during their blast and a few months in they add in Anadrol. The Anadrol might cause them to put on 10 pounds in just 10 days, making them significantly bigger, fuller and stronger, but what happens as soon as they drop the anadrol, even if they keep using the test and primo? They rapidly lose that initial 10 pound weight gain, along with the strength that went with it. Does this mean they lost 10 pounds of muscle fiber? No. In reality, they didn't lose ANY muscle fiber. They just lost all the intramuscular fluid and blood volume Anadrol is known to promote.

This is what happens who you go "off" cycle, but continue using test. You will lose size, fullness, strength and even vascularity because you are no longer supplying the drugs necessary for causing those transient effects. However, this doesn't mean you lost actual muscle fiber, which is what REALLY matters from a long-term progress standpoint.

For most people on this board, 300 mg of test per week IS INDEED enough to maintain all of their actual muscle fiber during an "off" cycle, so long as their diet, training and rest remains on point, but it's silly to think the body is going to remain the same from a size, strength and vascularity standpoint.

The only way to remain as big, strong and vascular as you were on blast is to continue using those same drugs. Once you drop the drugs responsible for all that volumization and enhanced neural firing, those benefits go away,but again, this is very different than losing actual muscle fiber.

This is why it only takes about 2 weeks to regain 100% of your lost size and stength after resuming your previous blast stack...because all that intramuscular water, blood volume, and enhanced neural firing comes right back. Gaining actual muscle fiber is another thing altogether and much more difficult. Anyone who uses drugs which promote enhanced voumization and neural firing is going to receive those benefits everytime they use them, but it does NOT mean they are gaurantee to gain new muscle fiber. This is why we see so many guys who basically look the same after every cycle. They have a certain bodyweight and strength range they tend to stay in year after year, with the higher-end being their on-cycle blast and the lower-end their off-cycle cruise.

In order to approach bodybuilding from healthy perspective, you need to understand (and be OK with) the fact that you can NOT maintain maximum size and strength year-round. The guys who can't cope with this are the ones who end up getting hurt. Every time they see their appearance and/or performance begin to suffer even a little bit, they freak out and go right back on the drugs. These individuals are emotionally and psychologically unstable. Their insecurities blind them to reality of their situation, making them unable to see things as they truly are. As a result, many end up going (or staying) right back on the drugs...and eventually pay the price of their choices.

For those of you who care more about your progress than your health, it is critical to point out that this type of haphazard approach not only fails to yield superior long-term progress, but actually prevents the bodybuilder from achieving his full potentia...for a variety of reasons.

To the OP, I am not directing this message specifically to you, as you did not provide anywhere near enough information for me to know where you stand. Rather, some of what you relayed is reminiscent of those who have struggled with the loss of size and strength that occurs during a cruise. So, I thought I would elaborate on what is actually occurring during this transitionary period and why it is a bad idea to attempt to look one's best year-round. Steroids are an up and down thing. A steroid using bodybuilder's appearance is never going to be consistent year round (at least it shouldn't be, which is the point). It's just part of the game; a part we have to accept if we hope to make wise decisions regarding our drug use.
 
Last edited:
I’m not so sure that running eq helps keep your gains more then any other compound from experience. I believe people think it’s on the weaker side and choose to run it at higher doses and with it’s extremely long half life it stay in your system for such a long time after your last shot which makes people think there not losing there gains but it’s only because they still have a shit ton of eq in there system weeks after there last shot. Who knows I could be wrong just observation.

I think it's bc it stays in your system for 18 months after last inject, the gains stick around longer bc there is still hormone floating around in you.

You won't "keep gains" from anything after 2 years if you're not on any thing, don't keep protein up and don't work out, IMHO.
 
I personally like Eq and for me the sweet spot is between 800mg/wk to 1000mg/wk. But everyone is different and some people respond better to deca at around 600mg/wk.
Keep in mind for me EQ doesn't really start to shine till around weeks 12-14 so you have to run it for a long time

In my experience EQ is a waste of money. Anything so weak that it has to be run at such high doses for so long has no place in my toolbox. With test I prefer Deca by far. Those two are my bread and butter...and no, no odd Deca issues.

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

Eq is actually my favorite anabolic, I get insane fullness and vascularity on just 600mg a week, if you have true EQ you shouldn't have to run more than 600mg/wk to get great results from this drug. Living in Kentucky I get to see a lot of horses and to see one ON EQ and the difference that drug makes in their appearance is AMAZING!
The cosmetic effect of EQ is like the poor man's HGH.
 
I think it's bc it stays in your system for 18 months after last inject, the gains stick around longer bc there is still hormone floating around in you.

You won't "keep gains" from anything after 2 years if you're not on any thing, don't keep protein up and don't work out, IMHO.

It's the metabolites that remain in your system for 18 months, not the actual drug itself. EQ is gone after a few weeks. EQ tends to stick around a little longer than most other drugs just because it has a long ester (the undecylenate Ester) attached to it, which extends its life in the body.

Most injectable steroids have esters attached to them, such as acetate, enanthate, cypionate, undecylenate, undecanoate. Ex. trenbolone acetate (i.e. Finaject), nandrolone decanoate (i.e. Deca), boldenone undecyclenate (i.e EQ), etc.

Some esters are shorter and some esters are longer. The shorter the ester, the less time it keeps blood levels of the actual drug elevated in the body. The longer the Ester, the longer it keeps blood levels elevated.

But whenever you hear about a drug staying in the system for 3 months, 6 months, 18 months, etc., they are referring to the drug's inactive metabolites that are still hanging around, not the drug itself.
 
Eq is actually my favorite anabolic, I get insane fullness and vascularity on just 600mg a week, if you have true EQ you shouldn't have to run more than 600mg/wk to get great results from this drug. Living in Kentucky I get to see a lot of horses and to see one ON EQ and the difference that drug makes in their appearance is AMAZING!
The cosmetic effect of EQ is like the poor man's HGH.

X 2, one of my top two anabolics with trest. Also use because of cosmetic reasons and collagen production primarily not for mass gain. All I need for this purpose is 300-600 mg qwk. Chris Aceto uses low to mod dose EQ in his protocols for the same reason. 300-600mg, I've never seen him use 900mg. Louie Simmons uses EQ year round at low - mod doses. I know a doctor who was a competitive cyclist who stays on EQ year round @ 200-300mg plus TRT. I use at least 300 mg EQ in probably 44-48 weeks out of the year. It aromatizes at about half the rate of T so to say it aromatizes "a lot" is not particularly accurate. It's ability to increase H&H vs other androgens is completely overblown and in truth is more of a myth or broscience. As we've seen if you donated on Anasci there is a lot of underdosed EQ from supposedly trusted sources so many are not taking as much as they think. Boldenone is the same strength mg for mg in 2020 same it was in 1990. That's just basic laws of nature. To all the complete fools who claim EQ was so much better "back in the day" you have shit EQ or the last 1-3 decades of steroid use has attenuated your response. I've tried higher doses of 900- 1500mg after higher dose preps came out and found it to be a waste. No magic happened If mass is your goal then you would add a 19-nor preferably trest. Really I have no idea what the OP is talking about keeping gains or whatever. Obviously a quite inexperienced steroid user. So the way you learn is to just try your cycle of 900 EQ and 600 T and answer for yourself. I don't ever remember asking any of these jackasses anything about their opinions, I just tried it myself. But 600 EQ, 600 T plus 150-200 trest will go much much further for mass gain. Or 600mg Deca if you're scared of trest and don't get libido or dick problems with nandrolone.

Rex.
 
I've always loved EQ, look it gives is like no other compound that I have ever done...but the sides of anxiety and high RBC scare me as I'm getting older
 

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