take a break or be a Life'r?

[ajmaui]

im curious as to how many who've been On for years at a time straight without a break and then quit-whether using pct or not-have their levels checked again,return to normal, and actually feel normal again while natural? If so-how long did it take for bodys own production to kick in again? Everyone i know who's Ran for a long time and then quit feels like an old man again At least those in their mid 30s up-like myself. So should i stay On forever or is their still hope that i can return to Natural some day and test levels to return to an acceptable range? Been On 3 years. mostly test enan and deca w/ occasional tren and winny. always done low to moderate doses-never higher than 800mg total of any combined-usually more like 200-400 mg/wk. Have only done hcg last few months at 200 eod.

 

[Dad]

Being on anything other than HRT doses (i.e. 100 mg/week) for years is lunacy.

So I don't have to repeat this:
http://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28337

 

[J-hoe]

i thought about this before but then i figured i wanted kids some day and it just aitn worth it

 

[ajmaui]

ok. so i'm in for a L-O-N-G recovery! or mayb not at all What can i do now? should i go through with a typical pct as if i was ending a regular cycle instead of a 3 year cycle and just tough out the long recovery. would going to a 100mg/wk dose be better or would i even respond at all to that dose since I've been much higher for so long. I have heard that gh may help to return natural test levels-so maybe do pct and then switch to gh for several months. sorry for the ignorance and thanks for the patience! the hrt clinic i went through never mentioned anything about taking a break and the starting dose they had me on was 200 test enan and 200 deca-so i thought that was a typical hrt dose- not 100/wk! So- stay on low dose or you think recovery is worth a shot? you probly have no idea a time frame that it takes to recover huh. 1-2 years ballpark?

 

[Dad]

Timeframe is really hard to say. I'm very surpirsed that ANY U.S. doc would prescribe "HRT" of 200 mg enanthat and 200 mg deca (unless yuo are an HIV/AIDS patient). THis sounds like one of those "life extention" or "anti-aging" type clinics and not something the vast majority of IM or endocrine docs would do. If they send a questionaire and a nurse out to do a physical, yuo've got yuor answer.

THe drugs will take about 5 half-lives to get below the active threshold, but normalization is a whole 'nother thing, and this is where it gets tricky. The reason yuo feel like an "old man" when yuo some off, is that there's no test or other AAS, estrogen levels are higher due to aromatization, AND cortisol levels that have been suppressed all this time are rebounding. So, strength and size are dropping, muscles are getting softer, fat is being added, and everything aches, while yuo get weaker and struggle with workouts yuo used to man-handle. This is why people go on after being off for only short periods of time.

Yuo could try some longer-term, rotating type PCT, but the only way to know how this is working is to get blood work done every couple of months. Ideally, this would be done working with an endocrinologist who's had expereince with athletes, AAS, and long cycles before. Based on what little info yuo've given here, I'd really encourage yuo to do this. Once yuo get normalized, if yuo are still hypogonadal (low testeosterone production), then yuo can see about real HRT (NOT the excessive doses that someone is calling HRT under the giuse of "anti-aging," unless yuo are HIV positive ir have AIDS). The good news is that HRT in the 100-150 mg range will actaully work pretty well IF yuor diet and training are strict!

 

[ajmaui]

Thankyou! now that's some helpful info. i will look into doing the long term/rotating pct with a specialist and bloodwork. in the mean time i think i will lower my dose to a real hrt dose-unless it's neccessary to go Off 1st before lower dose even does anything? i mean-since I've been at like 2-400 of each test and deca/week for so long, will 100-150 of test even do Anything or will my receptor sites or whatever only repond to the higher doses now? should i do a short pct 1st and then get back on at 100mg-or can i go straight to the lower dose? any links to a recommended pct protocol would be greatly recommended as well as i've seen so many variations! Also how do i go about finding someone who really knows their stuf about long term recovery?

 

[J-hoe]

hmm...jus wondering,if you take 100mg of test/week with hcg,can u still make babies ?

 

[Dad]

Aj,

Yuo can lower to 100-150 mg - the body will clear down to that new steady state. Don't worry about receptors, these are simply folded uyp proteins on the (nuclear) cell membrane and are replaced all the time like any cell or cell component.

Yuo can do PCT while lowering the does as this helps keep the extra estrogen at bay. Cortisol rebound shuold be less of an issue since yuo aren't going off completely. Use both nolvadex (a competitive inhibitor of estrogens at the estrogen receptor site) AND and aromatase inhibitor like Arimidex.

Yuo could cycle some Clomid, and be careful about HCG as the hypothalamus reads this as "all's well" and is less responsive. Five thousand IU's every 4-5 days for a couple of weeks is a conservative apraoch with this.

There are, of course, a number of ways to juggle all this, but this is a good place to start. Get bloodwork done before changing anything so yuo know yuor starting point.

As to finding a doc, see who might work with athletes or sports teams to start.

J-hoe, this depends on sperm count - the only way to know is to have a sample checked.

 

[ajmaui]

thanks Dad! Funds are low-so gonna havta wait a lil bit on bloodwork and doc appointment but wana make some changes now if not detrimental. Thinkn of leaving the dose the same for now at 200 test a week and either keeping deca same at 200 also or just eliminating it if ok. Been on the hcg for a month now and boyz seem decent size so gonna drop that. I have a weeks worth of clomid on me that i was thinkn of finishing. Have a lil to much water retention and some nipple sensitivity. Estradiol was 50 last test two months ago so i know i tend towards increased estrogen even at moderate doses. U mentioned cortisol: I'm on 20 mg daily of cortisol and 75 MCGs T3. Last time i talked to doc he said it was ok to wein off both since I've been on both over a year. So i think i will start tapering off those as well unless there's some interactions between them that would warrent staying on for now until i lower the AAS dose. So my plans to recap: switch to just 200 test enan/wk, drop the deca,drop the hcg, do a weeks worth of clomid at 50/day and wein off the cortisol and thyroid. sound resonable- or stupid to do anything before bloodwork and under docs supervision.
J-hoe: hope ur right bro-may wana pop out some lil ones someday myself!