What's the best prescribed sleeping aid for bodybuilders from your experience?

[warlock]

Long thread so not sure if these has been mentioned. So the question was what is best sleepdrug for bodybuilder? Best in what sense? Just simply best considering sleep/quality or taking into consideration possible downsides like addiction potential?

So I assume the question implies something that will not affect negatively on performance (hormone secretions, immunity, energy etc.)

I have had insomnia problems since teenage years and tried all kind of meds for it. In my opinion the best drugs available are gaba-b agonists. That is my experience. They induce more prolonged and stable depression for neurons than gaba-a agonists (or modulators like benzodiazepines) and they increase delta brainwaves and thus deep restorative part of sleep too. Phenibut is also very good - it is gaba-b agonist and also inhibits voltage-gated calcium channels like pregabalin so it also induces restful sleep without negatively affecting sleep quality.

In fact, Baclofen or gaba-b agonists like GHB (about 1/100 times weaker gaba-b agonist than Baclofen) and phenibut (about 1/10 times weaker) are allmost only drugs available that significantly can improve sleep quality and SWS/delta brain waves. They also attenuate HPA-axis and downregulate/normalize cortisol secretion if it is dysregulated. So in a sense, they can be be quite anabolic.

Benzodiazepines and antihistamines or some serotonin/dopamine antagonists like clonazepam, mirtazapin or quetiapine also can reduce cortisol but benzodiazepines do not improve sleep quality usually but might worsen it. And those neuroleptics block dopamine and has many other negative effects. At least they do not usually increase SWS-sleep or delta waves but more beta waves. Mirtazapine on the other hand can increase sleep quality but it is nowhere near the efficacy of gaba-b agonists and their ability to restore/increase natural deep sleep and delta brain waves.

I had a baclofen prescribed 200mg/d and it was absolutely best sleep drug I ever had. And I have tried through allmost all known inhibitory neurotransmitter systems and none has worked as good as gaba-b agonists for me. I allways woke up like having been reborn, full of energy.. having propably been in delta brain wave state during night, in egoless state when connected to quantum energy field of potentiality (or field of love/God) inducing restoring electron path to the body and all the physical manifestations of that - increased growth hormone, better immunity, healing and daytime energy/mood etc.

Mirtazapin is also good but do not come even close to Baclofen/Phenibut and keeps you tired much longer. It is good for inducing sleep and lowering cortisol though. Baclofen, Phenibut and GHB can all be addictive but GHB I think is worst as it has so short half-life and needs to be dosed multiple times and can rapidly form severe addiction. Baclofen and Phenibut on the other hand needs to be taken only once before bed and addiction is not so harsh. But if one gets addicted it is comparable to benzo addiction or even worse (at least when I stopped 200mg cold turkey it was maybe worse than when I stopped benzodiazepines cold turkey).

Personally if I would get prescription again to Baclofen I would use it proprably 7-14 days on and then change to low dose mirtazapin (7,5mg) and clonazepam/oxazepam for same time period and then switch back to baclofen. In that way addiction could be propably prevented at least to some degree as gaba-a and gaba-b agonists do not have cross tolerance even though they can be substituted with each other to some degree.

200mg baclofen? I thought 10mg/20mg was the standard dose?

What dose would you recommend for a first timer?

 

[rollerghost]

200mg baclofen? I thought 10mg/20mg was the standard dose?

What dose would you recommend for a first timer?

Yes, 100-200mg. It is true that 10 or 20mg is standard dose but for that to work it requires well working gaba-b system to start with. The natural tolerance to gaba-b agonists varies quite a lot. Ex. Impulsive persons have less sensitive gaba-b system and same with depressed people, alcoholics, schizophrenics and many other variables have affect on it. Or many conditions might be consequence of poor functioning gaba-b system. There is actually quite a lot research on it. Poor sleep might in general affect it negatively as it decreases growth hormone which in turn would upregulate gaba-b system/receptor density. I guess in generall males have less sensitive gaba-b systems and part reason might be that women have more growth hormone secretion that increases gaba-b receptor density and that might be also one reason in general why GH induces so good/deep sleep and causes tiredness (beside increasing endorphins). That might be one reason why men more often also develop alcoholism as dysfunctional gaba-b system might precede/increase risk for alcoholism and substance abuse and gaba-b agonists have been succesfully used to treat or even cure alcoholism and other addictions (cravings).

But I would guess 10-25mg would be a good starting point. But for me, the restorative anabolic sleep (that is how I felt as I was in my peak condition when I used that amount of Baclofen and I believe baclofen was one reason) and benefits for mood etc. Came when my dose was over 100mg per day. But if one does not have any tolerance that would be definitely too much. Build gradually.

So gaba-b agonists increase growth hormone secretion and deep sleep and growth hormone in turn increases gaba-b sensitivity and so they can create a positive reinforcing loop for good and anabolic sleep.

 

[Samson250]

Yeah for me that feels like absolute shit the day after, felt like i had been drinkin the day before.

With Traz or the Promethozine?

 

[specter]

With Traz or the Promethozine?

Promethazine, felt like absolute shit the day after, like major hangover.

 

[Samson250]

I expect everything I take to come with sides it’s a matter of finding the right meds with sides that are manageable within my wheelhouse. It’s all been trial and error for me and it takes work with a good Dr. The goal is finding a baseline never a cure.

 

[Doitagain]

Yesterday I took my first dose ever of Trazodone one hour before going to bed. Just 25mg.
Slept like shit as usual but today in the gym I was WEAK as f*ck.

 

[SouthernMuscle]

40mg THCV
40mg CBG
10mg baclofen
3ml Kava extract - 210mg kavalactones

little bit of vape herb if i feel like it

easiest time i’ve had falling asleep in quite a while

 

[goback2013]

THCV puts you to sleep ??

 

[Alzadosghost]

75 mg benadryl
Midnight gummy
L-theanine 200mg
Unisom doxylamine 50 mg
Apigenin 100mg
Valerian root 2000 mg
Magnesium l-yhreonate 144mg
Ashwaganda 3000mg
GABBA 500mg
Iv used this 6 nights in a row and it’s got me to sleep for a whopping 2-3 hours. Twice as much as I usually sleep so I think it’s working lol

 

[OuchThatHurts]

Promethazine, felt like absolute shit the day after, like major hangover.

Thank goodness I get none of that. It goes with me everywhere I go on the globe. They've studied different antiemitics for the queezinesss astronauts experience and found promethazine the best in zero gravity and pulling heavy Gs. If it's good enough for NASA, it's good enough for me, brother. Sorry you had a bad experience with it. As you can see from this thread, meds and remedies vary greatly from person to person. I know you know, I'm just saying for the ppl who may not.

 

[specter]

Thank goodness I get none of that. It goes with me everywhere I go on the globe. They've studied different antiemitics for the queezinesss astronauts experience and found promethazine the best in zero gravity and pulling heavy Gs. If it's good enough for NASA, it's good enough for me, brother. Sorry you had a bad experience with it. As you can see from this thread, meds and remedies vary greatly from person to person. I know you know, I'm just saying for the ppl who may not.

Yeah i fuckin hate that i cant use it, ive tried different drugs for sleep and sofar only drug i can use without feeling like a damn zombie is zopiclone 7,5mg but that doesnt improve sleep quality.

 

[SouthernMuscle]

THCV puts you to sleep ??

Idk if it helps or not. But it’s mixed in w the cbg so I take it

 

[Alzadosghost]

God I miss GHB. The only thing that ever put me to sleep. You European guys can still get it right? Pm me

 

[Samson250]

At this point I’m ready to go straight to Propofol

 

[Alzadosghost]

At this point I’m ready to go straight to Propofol

Iv used it bro. It’s no joke. I would to.

 

[Alzadosghost]

At this point I’m ready to go straight to Propofol

I lied when I said GHB was the only thing that put this guy down. Propafol worked wonders. Had a friend whose wife was a nurse. I’d go and stay over at his house and she’d run an Iv in me all night and wake me up. Awesome stuff.

 

[Samson250]

I lied when I said GHB was the only thing that put this guy down. Propafol worked wonders. Had a friend whose wife was a nurse. I’d go and stay over at his house and she’d run an Iv in me all night and wake me up. Awesome stuff.

I have a plan for that..

I’m gonna go downtown and rent a homeless dude to administer my IV, monitor my breathing and resuscitate me if needed. Full proof.

 

[goback2013]

You guys are hardcore.
I've put down all the sleep meds. Even ltheanine.
My only mainstay is magnesium. Helps with digestion too.
To get to sleep I now rely on a bowl of old fashion oats.

 

[Alzadosghost]

You guys are hardcore.
I've put down all the sleep meds. Even ltheanine.
My only mainstay is magnesium. Helps with digestion too.
To get to sleep I now rely on a bowl of old fashion oats.

What a gift lol you lucky son of a gun. I’d do anything to get some sleep. And I literally mean anything……

 

[max_rep]

Any grogginess the next morning from the baclofen? How long before bed do you take it?

no groggy at all. i sleep like a baby and trust me i had sleep disorder for a long time before i found this combo.
i take baclofen 3 hours before sleep and i take melotonin right before sleep. It takes only 10 mins to start sleeping