My IGF-1 results hgh 3.3iu/day

[buck1973]

All that means is that a peptide with the exact molecular weight of IGF-1 was found in your serum. Any peptide synthesizer could create such a peptide. It also does not look at the 3-D shape of the folded peptide chain, to make sure it is correct for IGF-1. Peptide synthesizers can't do complex protein shapes, that is why they use a genetically modified bacteria to create things like gh and igf1.

I'm not saying your GH is fake, I'm just stating a possibility everyone should be aware of with serum testing.

At what expense could a Peptide Synthesizer produce such a Pep?
I understan d Anything could be done for a price.
Could it be done cheaper than producing HGH????
Would the human Body reap any Benifeit from a Synthesized Pep that has the same molecular weight as IGF-1????

 

[Kaladryn]

Kaladryn - What is the surefire way to be certain your HGH is real HGH? Mass Spec Testing and HPLC Testing?

Quaternary Structure (Molecular Biology)

NMR and X-ray crystallography studies can determine the symmetry relationships between subunits, the location of their interfaces, and the nature of their atomic contacts, together with the fold of the polypeptide chains.

Translation: not realistically possible.

At what expense could a Peptide Synthesizer produce such a Pep?
I understan d Anything could be done for a price.
Could it be done cheaper than producing HGH????
Would the human Body reap any Benifeit from a Synthesized Pep that has the same molecular weight as IGF-1????

A peptide synthesizer could produce a polypeptide that would fool a serum test at almost zero cost. Literally thousands of time cheaper than genetically modifying Ecoli bacteria to produce it.

This is the "cat" that is out of the bag when it comes to IGF-1 and GH.

 

[Baseline]

Kaladryn,

A lot of people think you can just toss a rHGH sample in a spinning centrifuge and a receipt paper is going to print out with the brand rHGH and quantity! LOL

Anyhow there is a way to come very close. That what a reference is used for.

For instance, you would use Pharma Grade Geno or Serostims as a reference and then test your generics.

So to Identify what it is you can use a "Matrix-assisted laser desorption/ionization" aka MALDI TOF/MS.

For Strength of the proteins, you can use 2 methods, I personally like SDS-PAGE because it is quicker but more accurately you can a reversed-phase HPLC.

So the Mass Spec, identifies and the HPLC will give you how many IU's. However if you do not have a reference, it's all for nothing.

The Chinese are very smart, I knew this was going to happen long ago when people started serum testing, that people were going to get scammed. As you said, you can synthesize something close in structure possibly even the same weight of 20kd and pass with flying colors on the serum test for pennies on the dollar!


-Baseline

 

[buck1973]

Not to be confused,
When you say serum test we are speaking of IGF-1 serum and not a HGH serum test.
This Polypeptide would fool a serum or a igf-1 test or both???????

Kaladryn,

A lot of people think you can just toss a rHGH sample in a spinning centrifuge and a receipt paper is going to print out with the brand rHGH and quantity! LOL

Anyhow there is a way to come very close. That what a reference is used for.

For instance, you would use Pharma Grade Geno or Serostims as a reference and then test your generics.

So to Identify what it is you can use a "Matrix-assisted laser desorption/ionization" aka MALDI TOF/MS.

For Strength of the proteins, you can use 2 methods, I personally like SDS-PAGE because it is quicker but more accurately you can a reversed-phase HPLC.

So the Mass Spec, identifies and the HPLC will give you how many IU's. However if you do not have a reference, it's all for nothing.

The Chinese are very smart, I knew this was going to happen long ago when people started serum testing, that people were going to get scammed. As you said, you can synthesize something close in structure possibly even the same weight of 20kd and pass with flying colors on the serum test for pennies on the dollar!


-Baseline

 

[Kaladryn]

Kaladryn,

A lot of people think you can just toss a rHGH sample in a spinning centrifuge and a receipt paper is going to print out with the brand rHGH and quantity! LOL

Anyhow there is a way to come very close. That what a reference is used for.

For instance, you would use Pharma Grade Geno or Serostims as a reference and then test your generics.

So to Identify what it is you can use a "Matrix-assisted laser desorption/ionization" aka MALDI TOF/MS.

For Strength of the proteins, you can use 2 methods, I personally like SDS-PAGE because it is quicker but more accurately you can a reversed-phase HPLC.

So the Mass Spec, identifies and the HPLC will give you how many IU's. However if you do not have a reference, it's all for nothing.

The Chinese are very smart, I knew this was going to happen long ago when people started serum testing, that people were going to get scammed. As you said, you can synthesize something close in structure possibly even the same weight of 20kd and pass with flying colors on the serum test for pennies on the dollar!


-Baseline

There is even a very common fragment of HCG that is the EXACT weight of HGH, it's incredibly cheap all over china (glycosylated beta subunit of HCG).

Not to be confused,
When you say serum test we are speaking of IGF-1 serum and not a HGH serum test.
This Polypeptide would fool a serum or a igf-1 test or both???????

IGF-1 and GH would require separate peptides since they are different weights. It would be dirt cheap to make the proper chain for both and throw them in a bottle.

The thing is, the proper AA chain isn't what makes IGF-1 and GH work, it's the SHAPE of the chain, or the 3D structure. So while you can easily make the proper sequence, you can't fold it into the proper shape with a peptide synthesizer.

 

[Racepicks]

Quaternary Structure (Molecular Biology)


Translation: not realistically possible.



A peptide synthesizer could produce a polypeptide that would fool a serum test at almost zero cost. Literally thousands of time cheaper than genetically modifying Ecoli bacteria to produce it.

This is the "cat" that is out of the bag when it comes to IGF-1 and GH.

Admittedly, I'm not the brightest person in the world. As a matter of fact, as I began to read the attached link, it brought me back to my high school days as my eyes glazed over. That being said, I believe the point being made is that, all the money currently being spent on HGH Serum tests and IGF-1 tests are a complete waste of money. Is that the whole point in a nut shell?

 

[buck1973]

There is even a very common fragment of HCG that is the EXACT weight of HGH, it's incredibly cheap all over china (glycosylated beta subunit of HCG).



IGF-1 and GH would require separate peptides since they are different weights. It would be dirt cheap to make the proper chain for both and throw them in a bottle.

The thing is, the proper AA chain isn't what makes IGF-1 and GH work, it's the SHAPE of the chain, or the 3D structure. So while you can easily make the proper sequence, you can't fold it into the proper shape with a peptide synthesizer.

Very informative,
What equipment or testing device studies the SHAPE of the chain, or the 3D structure? anything that is readily available?
So to fool the serum test and the IGF-1 test we need 2 peptide (1 for each test) and also it must be in the proper amounts as to score in the ranges we would expect should someone do a serum and IGF-1 test...... Also the cost would have to be less than HGH itself.
If all this is in place than It seems we again are at the mercy of the maker.....



Rereading Baseline, if one knows what they are looking for (Via pharma sample to compare).
Several types of Testing Equipment are available.
and an Impostor would Easily be spotted..
Probably cost prohibitive

Kaladryn,

A lot of people think you can just toss a rHGH sample in a spinning centrifuge and a receipt paper is going to print out with the brand rHGH and quantity! LOL

Anyhow there is a way to come very close. That what a reference is used for.

For instance, you would use Pharma Grade Geno or Serostims as a reference and then test your generics.

So to Identify what it is you can use a "Matrix-assisted laser desorption/ionization" aka MALDI TOF/MS.

For Strength of the proteins, you can use 2 methods, I personally like SDS-PAGE because it is quicker but more accurately you can a reversed-phase HPLC.

So the Mass Spec, identifies and the HPLC will give you how many IU's. However if you do not have a reference, it's all for nothing.

The Chinese are very smart, I knew this was going to happen long ago when people started serum testing, that people were going to get scammed. As you said, you can synthesize something close in structure possibly even the same weight of 20kd and pass with flying colors on the serum test for pennies on the dollar!


-Baseline

 

[Baseline]

Buck,

That is what I was saying. I also named the lab equipment you would need to do so. I personally think, that if you are sourcing GH, you need to spend the money to send it to a lab and have it analyzed every so often. That should be a cost the source should have to pay to make sure their customers can sleep at night (given they are not on Tren! LOL).


-Baseline

 

[buck1973]

Buck,

That is what I was saying. I also named the lab equipment you would need to do so. I personally think, that if you are sourcing GH, you need to spend the money to send it to a lab and have it analyzed every so often. That should be a cost the source should have to pay to make sure their customers can sleep at night (given they are not on Tren! LOL).


-Baseline

Got it Sir...
It sounds like you have access to these types of testing equipment
Any idea the cost involved or if it is offered to the public anywhere?
I do know a lab that offers GC/MS reasonably priced (scans from 50.0 to 500.0 D SIM mode with SIM ions for detected substance)
Could this be used to compare 2 samples as you stated (1 being good HGH of course).

Peace

 

[kdtl61]

I can speak for myself and the test I ran on this general topic.
53 year old male.

Did my annual blood draw. "wellness" Ask doc "hey, can we add Igf1 to this test?" Yep, I was not running any gh for some time. That test came back at
165. So, that was this 53 year old guys base number.

Then I ran blue tops at 3.3IU a day for 35 days.
Back to Labcorp: IGF1 tested 320. Plus I added hgh serum test. 29.

That is all I can share. Serum was up and the IGF doubled. Say what you wish.
So those stats dont confirm GH in my Blues?

 

[Racepicks]

I can speak for myself and the test I ran on this general topic.
53 year old male.

Did my annual blood draw. "wellness" Ask doc "hey, can we add Igf1 to this test?" Yep, I was not running any gh for some time. That test came back at
165. So, that was this 53 year old guys base number.

Then I ran blue tops at 3.3IU a day for 35 days.
Back to Labcorp: IGF1 tested 320. Plus I added hgh serum test. 29.

That is all I can share. Serum was up and the IGF doubled. Say what you wish.
So those stats dont confirm GH in my Blues?

In my opinion, those are very good scores. Were the Blue Tops sourced by a sponsor on this board?

 

[kdtl61]

No they were not. I had a complete thread covering the first part of my test with a question about. How long should a guy run his gh to make a real change in his igf1 level? Most guys feed back here was 3 to 4 weeks. So, that is what I based my on time on. Like I said this was me and only me. Spending my own money to test my own body and the how is responded to the gh.

I read a thread like this that makes it sound like there are no test but only some high dollar test we that we can't even use to really test our gh. I just figure it is the luck of the draw and the batch of product we get. Also if there is any truth to what IU are in the vial. I bet more 4iu vials are sold while claiming to be 10iu bottles then we will ever know. IMO more often then not IMO.
kd

In my opinion, those are very good scores. Were the Blue Tops sourced by a sponsor on this board?

 

[bobcat12]

Those are great numbers at 3.3iu but as some have already researched and noted, it is not necessarily indicative on real HGH. How long would it take for IGF-1 levels to rise if one were administering LR3?

 

[janoshik]

All that means is that a peptide with the exact molecular weight of IGF-1 was found in your serum. Any peptide synthesizer could create such a peptide. It also does not look at the 3-D shape of the folded peptide chain, to make sure it is correct for IGF-1. Peptide synthesizers can't do complex protein shapes, that is why they use a genetically modified bacteria to create things like gh and igf1.

I'm not saying your GH is fake, I'm just stating a possibility everyone should be aware of with serum testing.

Absolutely wrong.

CLIA (Chemiluminescent immunoassay) is the test what was done here. It has absolutely nothing with testing molecular weight, but is an immunoassay, the principles of which I had explained over and over in HGH testing thread this spring. Feel free to look it up.

So no, not any peptide synthesizer could create such a peptide.

It also MIGHT AS WELL (depends on the exact type of CLIA, which YOU [or I] have no idea about) look at the 3-D shape of the folded peptide chain.

Making a definite statement about something you (or anybody!) cannot know is more often a sign of a lack of knowledge than abundance of it.

Quaternary Structure (Molecular Biology)

How comes just today you admitted that HGH has no quarternary structure (like I said) when in a post before in the HGH testing thread you kept mentioning it and HERE you use it as a sole argument/reply? Please, explain that to me.

...something something about NMR and X-ray crystallography..."
Translation: not realistically possible.

I have access to both. But it is such an overkill and would consume so much time it is irrelevant to our purposes of testing. These methods are pretty much only used when characterising NEW UNKNOWN protein because of their costs, limitations and time necessary to conduct an analysis.
Using such methods for HGH, which is already characterised (characterisation = known composition and folding) is plain wasting of resources and that's why pretty much only methods of standards and immunoassays are used. Any person in the field knows that.

A peptide synthesizer could produce a polypeptide that would fool a serum test at almost zero cost. Literally thousands of time cheaper than genetically modifying Ecoli bacteria to produce it.

This is the "cat" that is out of the bag when it comes to IGF-1 and GH.

No. You literally have no idea how blood tests work. Those are all immnoassays and I suggest you look up my explanation of those in HGH testing thread.

 

[MrSaturatedFat]

I have now officially subscribed to this thread.