Strong Tendons Low Test Cycle Advice

[LocalGod]

So lately I been seein alot of talk about cycles runnin 200mg-250mg/wk test with a highish dose of EQ or Deca to focus on keeping tendons strong. I will be starting a cycle of this nature soon but will be running Prop with EQ. My question is what level you guys feel should Prop should be run at as opposed to Enth or Cyp? Running 12 weeks on a longer estered Test at 250mg/wk will result in MUCH higher blood levels than running 250/wk of Prop(ed or eod obviously).

My current plan:

Weeks 1 -14: 75mg Test Prop EOD
Weeks 1 - 2: 875mg Equipoise (250mg EOD)
Weeks 3 - 8: 600mg Equipoise (170mg EOD)
Weeks 2 -14: 250 IU HCG twice a week
Weeks 15-18: 30-10mg Nolvadex ED

This should result in a TRT bloodlevel with Prop, which is supposed to be the idea with this cycle, where as Cyp or Enth at 250mg/wk will build up to much more than a TRT level within a few weeks.

As you can see I plan to frontload the EQ to get my levels up a lil quicker being as I need to finish EQ so much sooner than Prop for a good PCT. What do you guys think?

[Bionic Bill]

I'm gonna start going this route as well....Definitely a must try for guys with joint or tendon problems.....The article floating around about this is a very good read....


I think your prop dosage looks good. I would leave it where it is and throw in a high dose or Primo along with the cycle you listed.

LB

[LocalGod]

Thanks for your input Bill, still lookin for everyone else's opinions too. Surely you guys have an opinion. With the difference in half life, Test Prop run at 250mg/wk (75mg eod) looks like it results in bloodlevels equivalent to Test Enth or Cyp run at about 100mg/wk !! That seems a bit on the low side, but I suppose may be a realistic TRT dose. Anyways, I'd really like to hear a few more guys weigh in on this, thanks.

[ironfreak83]

i've been running 250mg of test c, along with 600 deca and 400 EQ. my strength is up and back to where it was before my rotator tear and ac joint disaster. also my joints and tendons feel awesome and i've had no libido or energy problems whatsoever.

[LocalGod]

Thats my point exactly Ifreak, with your 250mg/wk Cyp after a month or so your probly runnin triple the bloodlevels of 250mg/wk on Prop. I think alot of people don't realize how big of difference there is. I believe thats where alot of the "I get less bloated when I use Prop" comments come from. Unless the esters itself can actually cause bloat my intuition is that 1000ng/dl of total test is 1000ng/dl whether it be from Enth/Cyp/Prop.

I actually had read your posts about your current cycle and was one of the things that led me in this dirrection. So I hope it works well for both of us, obviously mine is a bit lighter so will surely produce slightly less spectacular results but at the same time hopefully less sides.

[ironfreak83]

Originally Posted by LocalGod

Thats my point exactly Ifreak, with your 250mg/wk Cyp after a month or so your probly runnin triple the bloodlevels of 250mg/wk on Prop. I think alot of people don't realize how big of difference there is. I believe thats where alot of the "I get less bloated when I use Prop" comments come from. Unless the esters itself can actually cause bloat my intuition is that 1000ng/dl of total test is 1000ng/dl whether it be from Enth/Cyp/Prop.

I actually had read your posts about your current cycle and was one of the things that led me in this dirrection. So I hope it works well for both of us, obviously mine is a bit lighter so will surely produce slightly less spectacular results but at the same time hopefully less sides.

yeah i agree about the cyp as well bro. i'm weighing around 308-315 right now so at your bw you should still get some pretty awesome gains. my bw is the reason i ran the deca so high since i like to keep it at 2mg per pound that i weigh roughly. i hope the cycle works out good for ya though man.

[Paul Bunyan]

Be careful with all of the EQ. It raised my RBC thru the roof and it stayed that way for a long time after I stopped it. I like it but don't want my blood as thick as molasses any more.

PB

[btn2102]

IMHO
propionate conversion rate into estrogens is much less, b/c it remains in circulation for less time.
water retention is not related to ester or testosterone but to estrogens. With prop you have a lower maximum level built up for conversion, Its like when you come off from Enath as the estro drops so does the water bloat.

PB makes a good point with RBC/BP also

[LocalGod]

yeah, now I am concerned with that. How do you guys feel with you RBC up. I know this is more popular with powerlifters but I need to stay in good Cardio condition as well, I compete as long as I can go before my heart feels like its gonna pop. I hope this cycle won't give me trouble in that respect. I was imagining the benefits of more red blood cells, but didn't worry much about then negatives.

Any expierience with this condition, I would like to know how it affected you?

[Paul Bunyan]

The increased RBC's are great for endurance. However, with too many RBC's , your blood does get thicker. My blood tests have always shown a high level of rbc's, hemoglobin, and hematocrit. There have been times where my doctor wondered WTF? Now it hovers just above the upper limit for all three. If you are going to use EQ then give blood before you start and every 2 months after you start. That will keep things from getting out of hand. My levels were pushing the upper limit before I ever got on the program. It was because my sleep apnea was not treated at the time. Just some food for thought.

PB

[LocalGod]

Hahaha, I gotta wonder how good an idea it is to give blood while on cycle, it would definately lower your RBC, but I laugh in my head picturing some anemic 12yo girl gettin a transfusion of Jay Cutler blood and instantly growing a Dudley Do-Right chin and talking like James Earl Jones!!

Your doc should be able to clue in on you RBC being caused by your use, AAS are listed as one of the causes for having a high RBC.

I will be trying to keep an eye on this in the future, and at a minimum make sure I stay very well hydrated and such. Thanks for the heads up.

[ironfreak83]

really the only reason i threw EQ in at a moderate dose was for the extra collagen synthesis for the tendons. it seems to be working well for that purpose but it also tends to give me crazy pumps during my workouts, which i don't really like when i'm going heavy. this is probably due to the higher RBC like everyone has mentioned. i really don't like EQ that much as opposed to deca, but i threw it in for the benefits i mentioned.

[Paul Bunyan]

There is nothing wrong with using EQ as long as the dosage doesn't get crazy. The info I posted on the other stuff was just to let you guys know what to look for while you are using EQ. Deca is a good AAS in general. I'm not a huge fan of high doses any more as I have a hard time keeping my weight down under 300. I compete in strongman now and need to be more agile and have good endurance along with being strong. It's a whole lot different than powerlifting.

If you are getting bloated from the test I suggest using .5mg of arimidex 3x/wk.

PB

[LocalGod]

I am a strongman competitor also, if that wasn't obvious, but for now I only intend on competeing as a lightweigh, don't wanna be the strongest in the world, just maybe the strongest 230lber

[btn2102]

I find it's the test E, more likely the bloat from it that gives me the BP issues especially at higher amounts for longer periods, but I would think the combination of EQ and Test would work together to raise things quicker. Maybe some blood thinning meds and keep the test low as you are suggesting. You are planning a high EQ compared to Test though.

[Paul Bunyan]

Hey LG, might I suggest 200mg/wk cyp or enan and 400mg EQ/wk. Focus on keeping your protein intake up to gain some lean bw. The HCG at 250i.u. mwf and the nolva at 10mg/day. If you gain the weight at a reasonable pace your endurance won't suffer. You can weigh up to 231 as a LW and you can weigh in the day before a lot of the time so you could be a bit heavier. I'm 6' tall and normally compete between 295 and 315.

PB

[ironfreak83]

Originally Posted by Paul Bunyan

Hey LG, might I suggest 200mg/wk cyp or enan and 400mg EQ/wk. Focus on keeping your protein intake up to gain some lean bw. The HCG at 250i.u. mwf and the nolva at 10mg/day. If you gain the weight at a reasonable pace your endurance won't suffer. You can weigh up to 231 as a LW and you can weigh in the day before a lot of the time so you could be a bit heavier. I'm 6' tall and normally compete between 295 and 315.

PB

PB, how do you feel about adding some var or halo to that cycle? obviously the var would be a better choice for the stronger tendons, but the halo could help increase strength and training intensity without much weight or size gain.

[Paul Bunyan]

Var is a good choice stacked with some type of creatine for best results. Halo only for the last 3-4 weeks before a contest at 10-20mg/day and about 40mg the day of. It's best to experiment with Halo doses because it can cause one to lose their marbles. By that I mean the aggression needs to be there but you also need to be able to control it. Some can handle it and some can't.

A stack needs to remain simple. Then you can tell what works best for you and your goals. More compounds and higher doses aren't always the answer.

PB

[ironfreak83]

Originally Posted by Paul Bunyan

Var is a good choice stacked with some type of creatine for best results. Halo only for the last 3-4 weeks before a contest at 10-20mg/day and about 40mg the day of. It's best to experiment with Halo doses because it can cause one to lose their marbles. By that I mean the aggression needs to be there but you also need to be able to control it. Some can handle it and some can't.

A stack needs to remain simple. Then you can tell what works best for you and your goals. More compounds and higher doses aren't always the answer.

PB

awesome, thanks for the reply.

[LocalGod]

Thanks for the info guys, untill now I had competed at natural 200lb but obviously at my hieght that doesn't allow much mass to work with so I decided to go up to the 231. I had been thinking of adding some Halo near the next contest, I'll see how things go with what I've got and if I stay injury free by time I need to order then. Glad to have a few guys with similar needs to post with, thanks again.