DHT and cholesterol (direct link?)

[Jizzmo]

this goes to stewie (or anyone with scientific knowledge)

does anyone know the direct effects DHT has on cholesterol?
or how the androgenicity of AAS and cholesterol (HDL/LDL) are connected (if they are connected directly) ?

i know that highish (not too high) estrogen is kinda beneficial regarding HDL levels (just like SERMS which bind to certain e2 receptors), but too high dosages of testosterone to create highish estrogen levels are obviously counterproductive.

but whats the link between DHT and cholesterol?
is there even a direct link (independent from testosterone levels)?
talking about a situation where you run a trt dosage of testosterone, HDL and LDL are in check.
what would happen if you added 200-300mgs of DHT ? or any similar AAS, like masteron?
i know that free test would probably increase from SHBG binding (but lets take all SHBG-good-or-bad-conspiracies out of the equation here)

i know a couple guys run test+mast as cruise.. did your HDL levels bottom out from that?

obviously the most androgenic AAS seem to be the HDL wreckers (tren), but things like orals, especially anavar (with no androgenic activity at all) are also notorious for killing hdl too.
i couldnt find any literature on DHT and cholesterol, except for studies where they substituted testosterone for DHT and of course HDL dropped (because of no estrogen).

appreciate any input

 

[ZOFO1973]

I cruise on 200 Test Cyp (Dr. prescribed) and I throw in 300 Primo weekly. All my numbers always come back in line ; no red flags.
Mast and especially Winstrol may have an impact on LDL & HDL. I can only speak from Primo.

 

[buck]

for what it is worth, i have had my DHT level tested a couple times. once years a go on androgel it was triple the top of the scale and my total cholesterol was 140( pretty much where it usually is) and my HDL was 40.

 

[Kaladryn]

There is an indirect link between DHT and HDL levels. Androgens lower HDL because they compete with estrogens that raise HDL. DHT has twice the affinity for the AR as testosterone. Androgens also raise LDL.

 

[Jizzmo]

thanks for the input...
how do you mean compete kaladryn? you mean in terms of aromatization vs reduction? so test becomes either estrogen OR dht?
keep in mind that i was solely thinking about a scenario where exogenous DHT is added

or compete on a receptor level? if so, which receptor do DHT and estrogen compete at? something to do with the cholesterol "recycling" in the liver?

 

[Kaladryn]

thanks for the input...
how do you mean compete kaladryn? you mean in terms of aromatization vs reduction? so test becomes either estrogen OR dht?
keep in mind that i was solely thinking about a scenario where exogenous DHT is added

or compete on a receptor level? if so, which receptor do DHT and estrogen compete at? something to do with the cholesterol "recycling" in the liver?

There is competitive inhibition between E2 and T, probably T blocking the ER and E2 blocking the AR, but co-binding factors are probably involved also. T and E can actually activate each other's receptors at a very low affinity, so it is likely there is some competitive inhibition.

Here is an example, you can have a 200 E2 level (5x upper normal) and have very little in terms of estrogenic side effects because you have a 10,000 testosterone level.

Women see this when estrogen levels decline and T levels stay relatively high in comparison (although still lower than when younger) causing androgenic side effects...

I've asked many endos, biochemists, organic chemists about this issue, you can't get a straight answer, unless there has been some recent discoveries on exactly how this works... Things that go on inside the cytoplasm, and especially ones that occur very rapidly, are extremely hard to study.

 

[Jizzmo]

ah thanks, i didnt know T could actually bind to E2 receptors...

regarding the ratio thing...
i guess youre one of the guys who are saying that high e2 numbers alone wont cause sides such as gyno as long as T is equally high elevated, right?

when i first heard about that theory it appeared damn logical to me, made much more sense than going from absolute numbers