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SARM S4- your thoughts, reviews etc
- Thread starter thedonker
- Start date
- Joined
- May 22, 2009
- Messages
- 354
a guy at my gym was using it and had to stop,it made his vision messed up,he said he saw everthing with a yellow haze.and stayed like that for awile after stopping....fuck that!
- Joined
- May 22, 2009
- Messages
- 354
i honestly dont know---i know on olm theres quit a few members reporting same vision side affects!
- Joined
- Dec 7, 2008
- Messages
- 108
A good friend of mine used it for 5 weeks while clean just so he could see what it would do on its own. No changes in his diet nor training were made.
He didn't get it directly from the board sponsor , he got it from a guy that gave up on it because of "visual disturbances" funny enough.
He started & stayed @ 150mgs ED for the 5 weeks.(taken 3x a day@50Mg)
He gained only 6lbs. His BF% went down. (he didn't give me exact %)
His waistline went from 30 to 28.5.
I saw him @ a mutual friends pool party about week 3, his arms & chest & shoulders looked just like mine do during a Var cycle..( Muscle hardness & veins everywhere)...... very vascular.
He said he loves it. He said the only downside he could think of is that when he walks into a dark room he has to stand in the doorway for about 5 to 10 minutes till his eyes adjust , he said he's busted his ass a couple times trying to navigate the dark.(slammed his hand in his car door the other day in a dark parking garage
)
He didn't experience the yellow tint , but did notice a difference in his eyes ability to adjust. He is 2 weeks past his last day on & no acne , nip puffiness ,
mood swings or anything else......
Sounds like great stuff , almost to good to be true.........
He didn't get it directly from the board sponsor , he got it from a guy that gave up on it because of "visual disturbances" funny enough.
He started & stayed @ 150mgs ED for the 5 weeks.(taken 3x a day@50Mg)
He gained only 6lbs. His BF% went down. (he didn't give me exact %)
His waistline went from 30 to 28.5.
I saw him @ a mutual friends pool party about week 3, his arms & chest & shoulders looked just like mine do during a Var cycle..( Muscle hardness & veins everywhere)...... very vascular.
He said he loves it. He said the only downside he could think of is that when he walks into a dark room he has to stand in the doorway for about 5 to 10 minutes till his eyes adjust , he said he's busted his ass a couple times trying to navigate the dark.(slammed his hand in his car door the other day in a dark parking garage
) He didn't experience the yellow tint , but did notice a difference in his eyes ability to adjust. He is 2 weeks past his last day on & no acne , nip puffiness ,
mood swings or anything else......
Sounds like great stuff , almost to good to be true.........
- Joined
- Dec 7, 2008
- Messages
- 108
I actually have a subscription to GTX's newsletter following the Ostarine trials & results.......... I have yet to read a thing regarding visual sides. I would think that they would include that wouldn't they ?
There are lots of experimental variants of the S-4's though....... Ostarine (MK-2866)is just one of them.
EDED
Banned
- Joined
- Jan 31, 2009
- Messages
- 987
A good friend of mine used it for 5 weeks while clean just so he could see what it would do on its own. No changes in his diet nor training were made.
He didn't get it directly from the board sponsor , he got it from a guy that gave up on it because of "visual disturbances" funny enough.
He started & stayed @ 150mgs ED for the 5 weeks.(taken 3x a day@50Mg)
He gained only 6lbs. His BF% went down. (he didn't give me exact %)
His waistline went from 30 to 28.5.
I saw him @ a mutual friends pool party about week 3, his arms & chest & shoulders looked just like mine do during a Var cycle..( Muscle hardness & veins everywhere)...... very vascular.
He said he loves it. He said the only downside he could think of is that when he walks into a dark room he has to stand in the doorway for about 5 to 10 minutes till his eyes adjust , he said he's busted his ass a couple times trying to navigate the dark.(slammed his hand in his car door the other day in a dark parking garage
He didn't experience the yellow tint , but did notice a difference in his eyes ability to adjust. He is 2 weeks past his last day on & no acne , nip puffiness ,
mood swings or anything else......
Sounds like great stuff , almost to good to be true.........
stand in the dark for 5-10 min? i usually find a light switch in a minute LOL
anyways, last year or two when it came out, i tried the first batch supposedly 95% pure (who knows whos to say?) no vision problem,,150mg/day gave me sore nips, not full blow gyno just sore nips and very hopped up feeling, but no sleep disturbances, and pretty angry, tahts about it,,,hardness was felt but no physical cahnges,,,i stopped it after two weeks, it just felt to 'researchy' know what i mean? too new, and custom made in China so i wasnt fully comfortable....i knew the source and is a good man, but still
havent touched it since, nor the new batch,,,,vision problem, weak anabolism to make it worth the vision problem and, nobody tested to see if it shuts you down or not with blood work, no purity tested from an independent lab,,so go buy something else...for now.
not dissing the source in case he is reading
lol but just looking at positives vs negatives,,,,i would like to see a better SARM in the future than S4.
- Joined
- May 4, 2009
- Messages
- 496
That's the big thing with me wanting to try it, the visual problems.
After spending nearly $6k on LASIK eye surgery, I'm not chancing my eyes for anything. I went from legally blind without corrective lenses to better than 20/20 in under 15 minutes. Unless something was within inches of my face, I couldn't see a damn thing. Miracle of science.
After spending nearly $6k on LASIK eye surgery, I'm not chancing my eyes for anything. I went from legally blind without corrective lenses to better than 20/20 in under 15 minutes. Unless something was within inches of my face, I couldn't see a damn thing. Miracle of science.
- Joined
- Dec 7, 2008
- Messages
- 108
Yeah he never has been accused of being a real smart guy..............When he was telling me that I think he was referring to his garage...... who knows.
- Joined
- Dec 7, 2008
- Messages
- 108
This is just part of a article from a month or so ago.
"The most common side effects reported among all subjects in the trial were fatigue, anemia, nausea, and diarrhea."<------- All of which IMO are chemotherapy sides .......
Again no mention of "visual disturbances"....... I guess point being , THERE IS a version of the S-4 out there that has no visual disturbances associated with it.
GTx and Merck & Co., Inc. are collaborating to develop Ostarine as part of a broader SARMs clinical development program. SARMs are a new class of drugs with the potential to treat musculoskeletal conditions including cancer cachexia and sarcopenia–the loss of skeletal muscle mass resulting in reduced physical strength and ability to perform activities of daily living.
“We are encouraged by results of this Phase II trial in patients with cancer cachexia, where Ostarine showed significant improvements in lean body mass in both treatment cohorts,” said Mitchell S. Steiner, MD, CEO of GTx. “We look forward to our continued partnership with Merck on the SARM program, and to evaluating the full potential of our lead product candidate Ostarine in conditions such as cancer cachexia, sarcopenia, and other muscle wasting conditions.”
Cancer cachexia is the severe and progressive loss of muscle that occurs in cancer patients and is responsible for at least 20 percent of cancer deaths. An estimated 410,000 patients in the U.S. are diagnosed with cancer cachexia each year. Currently, there are no drugs approved for the treatment of cancer induced muscle loss.
Study Summary
159 cancer patients with non-small cell lung cancer, colorectal cancer, non-Hodgkin’s lymphoma, chronic lymphocytic leukemia, or breast cancer were randomized in the placebo-controlled study at 35 sites in the U.S. and Argentina. Participants received placebo, 1 mg or 3 mg Ostarine once daily for 16 weeks. Average weight loss prior to entry among all subjects was 8.8 percent and patients were allowed to receive standard chemotherapy during the trial. The drop-out rate during the trial was 33 percent, lower than the expected 50 percent rate observed in other cancer supportive care clinical trials.
The study also met the secondary endpoint of muscle function (performance) as measured by a 12-step stair climb test measuring speed and calculating power, with each Ostarine treatment arm demonstrating a statistically significant average decrease in time to completion and average percentage increase in power exerted. The change from baseline in stair climb power in the placebo, 1 mg and 3 mg treatment groups was 0.23 watts (p=0.66 compared to baseline), 8.4 watts (p=0.002) and 10.1 watts (p=0.001), respectively. Statistically significant decreases from baseline in stair climb time were also observed. No improvement in speed or power was observed for the placebo group. There were no improvements in the endpoints of grip strength and gait speed.
The incidence of serious adverse events, deaths and tumor progression were similar among placebo and the treatment cohorts. The most common side effects reported among all subjects in the trial were fatigue, anemia, nausea, and diarrhea.
About Cancer Cachexia
Cancer induced muscle loss occurs in about 50 percent of cancer patients and may lead to loss of protein stores, severe weakness and fatigue, immobility, loss of independence, and an inability to tolerate and respond to cancer treatments. Cancer induced muscle wasting is responsible for at least 20 percent of cancer deaths. There are no drugs currently approved for the treatment of cancer wasting.
About GTx
GTx, Inc., headquartered in Memphis, Tenn., is a biopharmaceutical company dedicated to the discovery, development, and commercialization of small molecules that selectively target hormone pathways to prevent and treat cancer, fractures and bone loss, muscle loss and other serious medical conditions. GTx has completed a pivotal Phase III clinical trial evaluating toremifene citrate, a selective estrogen receptor modulator, or SERM, at an 80 mg dose for the prevention of bone fractures and treatment of other estrogen deficiency side effects of androgen deprivation therapy in men with prostate cancer. GTx has applied for marketing approval in the United States for toremifene 80 mg and, if approved, plans to commercialize toremifene 80 mg in the U.S. GTx is also developing toremifene citrate at a 20 mg dose in a Phase III clinical trial for the prevention of prostate cancer in high risk men with high grade prostatic intraepithelial neoplasia, or PIN. GTx and Ipsen have entered into a development and collaboration agreement for toremifene citrate in all indications except breast cancer for Europe and the Commonwealth of Independent States (CIS). In December 2007, GTx and Merck & Co., Inc. formed a collaboration to discover and develop selective androgen receptor modulators, or SARMs, a new class of drugs with the potential to treat sarcopenia, which is the loss of skeletal muscle mass resulting in reduced physical strength and ability to perform activities of daily living, as well as cancer cachexia (cancer induced muscle loss) and other musculoskeletal wasting conditions. GTx and Merck are evaluating multiple SARM product candidates, including Ostarine™ (designated by Merck as MK-2866) and MK-0773 for a variety of musculoskeletal wasting indications including sarcopenia and cancer cachexia. In the second half of 2009, Merck and GTx expect to complete an ongoing Phase II clinical trial evaluating MK-0773 in sarcopenia. GTx also is conducting a Phase I clinical trial evaluating GTx-758, an oral luteinizing hormone inhibitor, for first line treatment of advanced prostate cancer.
"The most common side effects reported among all subjects in the trial were fatigue, anemia, nausea, and diarrhea."<------- All of which IMO are chemotherapy sides .......
Again no mention of "visual disturbances"....... I guess point being , THERE IS a version of the S-4 out there that has no visual disturbances associated with it.
GTx and Merck & Co., Inc. are collaborating to develop Ostarine as part of a broader SARMs clinical development program. SARMs are a new class of drugs with the potential to treat musculoskeletal conditions including cancer cachexia and sarcopenia–the loss of skeletal muscle mass resulting in reduced physical strength and ability to perform activities of daily living.
“We are encouraged by results of this Phase II trial in patients with cancer cachexia, where Ostarine showed significant improvements in lean body mass in both treatment cohorts,” said Mitchell S. Steiner, MD, CEO of GTx. “We look forward to our continued partnership with Merck on the SARM program, and to evaluating the full potential of our lead product candidate Ostarine in conditions such as cancer cachexia, sarcopenia, and other muscle wasting conditions.”
Cancer cachexia is the severe and progressive loss of muscle that occurs in cancer patients and is responsible for at least 20 percent of cancer deaths. An estimated 410,000 patients in the U.S. are diagnosed with cancer cachexia each year. Currently, there are no drugs approved for the treatment of cancer induced muscle loss.
Study Summary
159 cancer patients with non-small cell lung cancer, colorectal cancer, non-Hodgkin’s lymphoma, chronic lymphocytic leukemia, or breast cancer were randomized in the placebo-controlled study at 35 sites in the U.S. and Argentina. Participants received placebo, 1 mg or 3 mg Ostarine once daily for 16 weeks. Average weight loss prior to entry among all subjects was 8.8 percent and patients were allowed to receive standard chemotherapy during the trial. The drop-out rate during the trial was 33 percent, lower than the expected 50 percent rate observed in other cancer supportive care clinical trials.
The study also met the secondary endpoint of muscle function (performance) as measured by a 12-step stair climb test measuring speed and calculating power, with each Ostarine treatment arm demonstrating a statistically significant average decrease in time to completion and average percentage increase in power exerted. The change from baseline in stair climb power in the placebo, 1 mg and 3 mg treatment groups was 0.23 watts (p=0.66 compared to baseline), 8.4 watts (p=0.002) and 10.1 watts (p=0.001), respectively. Statistically significant decreases from baseline in stair climb time were also observed. No improvement in speed or power was observed for the placebo group. There were no improvements in the endpoints of grip strength and gait speed.
The incidence of serious adverse events, deaths and tumor progression were similar among placebo and the treatment cohorts. The most common side effects reported among all subjects in the trial were fatigue, anemia, nausea, and diarrhea.
About Cancer Cachexia
Cancer induced muscle loss occurs in about 50 percent of cancer patients and may lead to loss of protein stores, severe weakness and fatigue, immobility, loss of independence, and an inability to tolerate and respond to cancer treatments. Cancer induced muscle wasting is responsible for at least 20 percent of cancer deaths. There are no drugs currently approved for the treatment of cancer wasting.
About GTx
GTx, Inc., headquartered in Memphis, Tenn., is a biopharmaceutical company dedicated to the discovery, development, and commercialization of small molecules that selectively target hormone pathways to prevent and treat cancer, fractures and bone loss, muscle loss and other serious medical conditions. GTx has completed a pivotal Phase III clinical trial evaluating toremifene citrate, a selective estrogen receptor modulator, or SERM, at an 80 mg dose for the prevention of bone fractures and treatment of other estrogen deficiency side effects of androgen deprivation therapy in men with prostate cancer. GTx has applied for marketing approval in the United States for toremifene 80 mg and, if approved, plans to commercialize toremifene 80 mg in the U.S. GTx is also developing toremifene citrate at a 20 mg dose in a Phase III clinical trial for the prevention of prostate cancer in high risk men with high grade prostatic intraepithelial neoplasia, or PIN. GTx and Ipsen have entered into a development and collaboration agreement for toremifene citrate in all indications except breast cancer for Europe and the Commonwealth of Independent States (CIS). In December 2007, GTx and Merck & Co., Inc. formed a collaboration to discover and develop selective androgen receptor modulators, or SARMs, a new class of drugs with the potential to treat sarcopenia, which is the loss of skeletal muscle mass resulting in reduced physical strength and ability to perform activities of daily living, as well as cancer cachexia (cancer induced muscle loss) and other musculoskeletal wasting conditions. GTx and Merck are evaluating multiple SARM product candidates, including Ostarine™ (designated by Merck as MK-2866) and MK-0773 for a variety of musculoskeletal wasting indications including sarcopenia and cancer cachexia. In the second half of 2009, Merck and GTx expect to complete an ongoing Phase II clinical trial evaluating MK-0773 in sarcopenia. GTx also is conducting a Phase I clinical trial evaluating GTx-758, an oral luteinizing hormone inhibitor, for first line treatment of advanced prostate cancer.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Aug 13, 2007
- Messages
- 36
A good friend of mine used it for 5 weeks while clean just so he could see what it would do on its own. No changes in his diet nor training were made.
He didn't get it directly from the board sponsor , he got it from a guy that gave up on it because of "visual disturbances" funny enough.
He started & stayed @ 150mgs ED for the 5 weeks.(taken 3x a day@50Mg)
He gained only 6lbs. His BF% went down. (he didn't give me exact %)
His waistline went from 30 to 28.5.
I saw him @ a mutual friends pool party about week 3, his arms & chest & shoulders looked just like mine do during a Var cycle..( Muscle hardness & veins everywhere)...... very vascular.
He said he loves it. He said the only downside he could think of is that when he walks into a dark room he has to stand in the doorway for about 5 to 10 minutes till his eyes adjust , he said he's busted his ass a couple times trying to navigate the dark.(slammed his hand in his car door the other day in a dark parking garage
He didn't experience the yellow tint , but did notice a difference in his eyes ability to adjust. He is 2 weeks past his last day on & no acne , nip puffiness ,
mood swings or anything else......
Sounds like great stuff , almost to good to be true.........
true indeed, good stuff.
- Joined
- Sep 25, 2002
- Messages
- 5,878
Any other new info on this??? Only can find about 8 studies and few within past year.
Effects of Selective Androgen Receptor Modulator (SARM) Treatment in Osteopenic Female Rats.
Kearbey JD, Gao W, Fisher SJ, Wu D, Miller DD, Dalton JT.
Pharm Res. 2009 Sep 1. [Epub ahead of print]PMID: 19728047 [PubMed - as supplied by publisher]Related articles
..........................................................
In vivo metabolism and final disposition of a novel nonsteroidal androgen in rats and dogs.
Perera MA, Yin D, Wu D, Chan KK, Miller DD, Dalton J.
Drug Metab Dispos. 2006 Oct;34(10):1713-21. Epub 2006 Jun 30.PMID: 16815963 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]Related articlesFree article
............................................................
Characterization of the in vitro metabolism of selective androgen receptor modulator using human, rat, and dog liver enzyme preparations.
Gao W, Wu Z, Bohl CE, Yang J, Miller DD, Dalton JT.
Drug Metab Dispos. 2006 Feb;34(2):243-53. Epub 2005 Nov 4.PMID: 16272404 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]Related articlesFree article
...........................................................
Interspecies differences in pharmacokinetics and metabolism of S-3-(4-acetylamino-phenoxy)-2-hydroxy-2-methyl-N-(4-nitro-3-trifluoromethylphenyl)-propionamide: the role of N-acetyltransferase.
Gao W, Johnston JS, Miller DD, Dalton JT.
Drug Metab Dispos. 2006 Feb;34(2):254-60. Epub 2005 Nov 4.PMID: 16272403 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]Related articlesFree article
...........................................................
Selective androgen receptor modulator treatment improves muscle strength and body composition and prevents bone loss in orchidectomized rats.
Gao W, Reiser PJ, Coss CC, Phelps MA, Kearbey JD, Miller DD, Dalton JT.
Endocrinology. 2005 Nov;146(11):4887-97. Epub 2005 Aug 11.PMID: 16099859 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]Related articlesFree article
.............................................................
Pharmacokinetics of S-3-(4-acetylamino-phenoxy)-2-hydroxy-2-methyl-N-(4-nitro- 3-trifluoromethyl-phenyl)-propionamide in rats, a non-steroidal selective androgen receptor modulator.
Kearbey JD, Wu D, Gao W, Miller DD, Dalton JT.
Xenobiotica. 2004 Mar;34(3):273-80.PMID: 15204699 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]Related articlesFree article
................................................................
Nonsteroidal selective androgen receptor modulator Ostarine() in cancer cachexia.
Zilbermint MF, Dobs AS.
Future Oncol. 2009 Oct;5(8):1211-20.PMID: 19852734 [PubMed - in process]Related articles
.................................................................
An update on promising agents for the treatment of cancer cachexia.
Madeddu C, Mantovani G.
Curr Opin Support Palliat Care. 2009 Dec;3(4):258-62.PMID: 19667995 [PubMed - in process]Related articles
Effects of Selective Androgen Receptor Modulator (SARM) Treatment in Osteopenic Female Rats.
Kearbey JD, Gao W, Fisher SJ, Wu D, Miller DD, Dalton JT.
Pharm Res. 2009 Sep 1. [Epub ahead of print]PMID: 19728047 [PubMed - as supplied by publisher]Related articles
..........................................................
In vivo metabolism and final disposition of a novel nonsteroidal androgen in rats and dogs.
Perera MA, Yin D, Wu D, Chan KK, Miller DD, Dalton J.
Drug Metab Dispos. 2006 Oct;34(10):1713-21. Epub 2006 Jun 30.PMID: 16815963 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]Related articlesFree article
............................................................
Characterization of the in vitro metabolism of selective androgen receptor modulator using human, rat, and dog liver enzyme preparations.
Gao W, Wu Z, Bohl CE, Yang J, Miller DD, Dalton JT.
Drug Metab Dispos. 2006 Feb;34(2):243-53. Epub 2005 Nov 4.PMID: 16272404 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]Related articlesFree article
...........................................................
Interspecies differences in pharmacokinetics and metabolism of S-3-(4-acetylamino-phenoxy)-2-hydroxy-2-methyl-N-(4-nitro-3-trifluoromethylphenyl)-propionamide: the role of N-acetyltransferase.
Gao W, Johnston JS, Miller DD, Dalton JT.
Drug Metab Dispos. 2006 Feb;34(2):254-60. Epub 2005 Nov 4.PMID: 16272403 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]Related articlesFree article
...........................................................
Selective androgen receptor modulator treatment improves muscle strength and body composition and prevents bone loss in orchidectomized rats.
Gao W, Reiser PJ, Coss CC, Phelps MA, Kearbey JD, Miller DD, Dalton JT.
Endocrinology. 2005 Nov;146(11):4887-97. Epub 2005 Aug 11.PMID: 16099859 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]Related articlesFree article
.............................................................
Pharmacokinetics of S-3-(4-acetylamino-phenoxy)-2-hydroxy-2-methyl-N-(4-nitro- 3-trifluoromethyl-phenyl)-propionamide in rats, a non-steroidal selective androgen receptor modulator.
Kearbey JD, Wu D, Gao W, Miller DD, Dalton JT.
Xenobiotica. 2004 Mar;34(3):273-80.PMID: 15204699 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]Related articlesFree article
................................................................
Nonsteroidal selective androgen receptor modulator Ostarine() in cancer cachexia.
Zilbermint MF, Dobs AS.
Future Oncol. 2009 Oct;5(8):1211-20.PMID: 19852734 [PubMed - in process]Related articles
.................................................................
An update on promising agents for the treatment of cancer cachexia.
Madeddu C, Mantovani G.
Curr Opin Support Palliat Care. 2009 Dec;3(4):258-62.PMID: 19667995 [PubMed - in process]Related articles
Last edited:
I wonder how it ballances out what sort of protein anabolism it effects?
I mean, they say that testE under 200-300mg/week aids collagen synth, but over those numbers it reduces collagen synth.
Does S-4 increase or decrease collagen synth?
Also, what type(s) of collagen does/may it effect?
I mean, they say that testE under 200-300mg/week aids collagen synth, but over those numbers it reduces collagen synth.
Does S-4 increase or decrease collagen synth?
Also, what type(s) of collagen does/may it effect?
I've been using 100mg daily for the past 4 weeks. No vision sides for me. Strength is great. bodyfat is down with no attention to diet. muscles full and vascular. no other supps used since early september. Can't really try and make a comparison as to what it feels like because all I have ever used is test, dbol, and tren and doesn't feel like that at all. You can definetely feel and see a difference, just nothing dramatic. I am very pleased with it so far.
- Joined
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- Joined
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in on this. everything sounds interesting
lets keep the info flowing. most of the sides i have read (the vision problems) are really coming in with doses of 100+mg adminstered 3 times a day for a total of 300+mg a day.
I am hoping to see alot more results with folks in the 50mg 3x a day.
I am hoping to see alot more results with folks in the 50mg 3x a day.
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