FoodFreak, I would like to hear YOUR opinion on diet.

[mainevent]

Offeason diet and training. You seem to be an extremely knowledgable guy so Id like to hear your thoughts on these topics.


LOL, I know your busy but thought I would start the thread for you.

[Oldlifter]

Originally Posted by mainevent

Offeason diet and training. You seem to be an extremely knowledgable guy so Id like to hear your thoughts on these topics.


LOL, I know your busy but thought I would start the thread for you.

x2. Would greatly appreciate as well, bro!





.

[FoodFreak]

Thanks guys! I'd love to contribute. Hmm where to start..

can we get a few more specific questions going so that I can base my advice upon that?

[mainevent]

Originally Posted by FoodFreak

Thanks guys! I'd love to contribute. Hmm where to start..

can we get a few more specific questions going so that I can base my advice upon that?

Diet:
Lets start with what you believe to be the best basic diet protocol to start. Some believe to just get in your protein (anywhere from 1-2g/lb of bodyweight) and then eat as much as you can.....as long as you dont become a lard ass. Others think you should be pretty strict during the offseason and maybe have a couple cheat meals per week.

Training:
Is there a specific training protocol you've found to be more adventageous? For example myself, after years of taking every set to failure and and using different rep ranges per week.....i cut down on the volume and just trained more frequently, which most on this board seem to do well with.

Periodization, low volume/high frequency, volume training, etc.?

[FoodFreak]

Originally Posted by mainevent

Diet:
Lets start with what you believe to be the best basic diet protocol to start. Some believe to just get in your protein (anywhere from 1-2g/lb of bodyweight) and then eat as much as you can.....as long as you dont become a lard ass. Others think you should be pretty strict during the offseason and maybe have a couple cheat meals per week.

Training:
Is there a specific training protocol you've found to be more adventageous? For example myself, after years of taking every set to failure and and using different rep ranges per week.....i cut down on the volume and just trained more frequently, which most on this board seem to do well with.

Periodization, low volume/high frequency, volume training, etc.?

Okay, I'll start here

DIET:

I don't believe anyone should have an "off season" or "bulking" phase per-se unless they are either 1-coming out of a contest, 2-are very lean. This is because the body is much less efficient at nutrient partitioning and usage with higher body fat percentages. It is also harder to tell what is fat, water, muscle or glycogen thus making it hard to gauge one's progress. When very lean, the metabolism is sensitive an efficient at partitioning nutrients. A much higher % of the calories you eat will go towards feeding muscle tissue vs fat tissue when you are lean- the concept is easy...the ratio of muscle:fat is very high.

That being said.. in being very lean or coming out of a contest, one is accustomed to eating below maintenance calories. They have been eating less than or just enough to maintain their muscle mass while keeping bodyfat very low. This is ideal right? yes! because now it is easy to start strategically adding calories in the form of energy (to create a slight surplus here) and raw materials (EAA's, EFA's) to promote growth. This can all be done while keeping a close eye on bodyfat stores. If they begin to inflate, we can easily make adjustments and corrections. The body will be in the ideal physiologic state to grow- after having been calorie restricted and likely carb restricted our muscles are very sensitized to anabolic hormones like insulin.

Many of my clients, as well as myself have experienced increases in muscle mass even in a caloric deficit. This is because we are providing adequate amounts of ESSENTIAL nutrients for recovery and growth. One may be very surprised at how less calories, form the right sources may actually often times be better than more calories form less essential sources. I typically recommend something along the lines of this:

Coming out of the contest or having been maintaining a comparably lean physique, one was probably eating: (using a keto diet as an example)

protein - 1.5g/lb LBM
fat - .5g/lb LBM
carbs - .125-.25g/lb LBM (trace carbs <50g per day for avg 200lb bber)

so now we're ready to grow. Lets stop using the EFA's as an energy source and reserve them for growth, how do we do this? provide an alternative energy source- carbs. Lets add them in during meal 1, meal prior to W/O and meal after W/O getting about .5g/lb LBM from carbs (including trace). Do this for 1-2 weeks and assess energy levels. If adequate, proceed until you reach a plateau. If not adequate, add more carbs to each of those meals or add them to some other meals until you find a good balance to match your energy expenditure in the day (without gaining fat). When the plateau is reached (will take a while- muscle isnt built THAT quickly), we can increase protein to 1.75g/lb LBM for instance. wait for another plateau, then increase to 2g/lb LBM. Keep in mind this is done over months not days or weeks! When I say add protein, I'm assuming one will be adding it from whole food sources (meats). The increase in meat portions will lead to an increase in EFA intake. ALSO, I assume (as i suggest) that most of the previous "trace" carbs come from fibrous green veggies. Therefore even in the off season it is important to have alot of green veggies- ESPECIALLY with the lower carb meals during the day. They will keep you full and keep your metabolism up. ALWAYS eat lots of greens! the potassium content in these leafy greens is also very nitrogen retentive!

**aside: I recommend people get their dietary fat from animal fat. HOWEVER seek quality animal fat, from things like grass fed beef/bison/turkey, omega-3 eggs, SALMON etc. (I can get into the details of why this is preferred in another thread)

Now this is the very base of the plan. There are ways to enhance it like if the athlete wants to use insulin etc etc. We wont start micromanaging here though.

Don't believe me? Kevin Levrone looked his best when he was eating steak and salmon as his primary protein sources. Robert Burnieka (huge and LEAN newer guy) eats lots of salmon and red meat. (I can get into why these two meat sources, along with eggs are my favorite in another thread...very interesting stuff!)...oh and our current MR OLYMPIA- Jay cutler looked REALLY good after having incorporated more EFA's into his diet....as opposed to his previous low fat, high carb approach.

[claymore]

Great info foodfreak

[hawkmoon]

Great post, thanks.
Regarding whole foods and meat - I feel I look much better (and feel better) since increasing my meats and decreasing my shakes. Just my experience, but it does agree with your methods.
I am hoping to increase them even more by swapping out the morning powder in my oatmeal for more steak.

[FoodFreak]

Originally Posted by hawkmoon

Great post, thanks.
Regarding whole foods and meat - I feel I look much better (and feel better) since increasing my meats and decreasing my shakes. Just my experience, but it does agree with your methods.
I am hoping to increase them even more by swapping out the morning powder in my oatmeal for more steak.

As far as shakes: We weren't intended to consume protein in such a way. Not to say they aren't convenient or beneficial, however I think when one has the option for whole food they should definitely use it.

[joshbarnett]

i am constantly getting on my training partner about getting leaner before "getting bigger". he is 17% bodyfat and has the type of body that gets fat from looking at carbs. am i wrong in telling him to get down to 10-12% range then add calories from quality fats/protein and pwo carbs?

[FoodFreak]

Originally Posted by joshbarnett

i am constantly getting on my training partners ass about getting leaner before "getting bigger". he is 17% bodyfat and has the type of body that gets fat from looking at carbs. am i wrong in telling him to get down to 10-12% range then add calories from quality fats/protein and pwo carbs?

He's just going to end up frustrating himself unless he diets to sub 10% and THEN tries to gain size.

[PHIL HERNON]

Originally Posted by FoodFreak

Okay, I'll start here

DIET:

I don't believe anyone should have an "off season" or "bulking" phase per-se unless they are either 1-coming out of a contest, 2-are very lean. This is because the body is much less efficient at nutrient partitioning and usage with higher body fat percentages. It is also harder to tell what is fat, water, muscle or glycogen thus making it hard to gauge one's progress. When very lean, the metabolism is sensitive an efficient at partitioning nutrients. A much higher % of the calories you eat will go towards feeding muscle tissue vs fat tissue when you are lean- the concept is easy...the ratio of muscle:fat is very high.

That being said.. in being very lean or coming out of a contest, one is accustomed to eating below maintenance calories. They have been eating less than or just enough to maintain their muscle mass while keeping bodyfat very low. This is ideal right? yes! because now it is easy to start strategically adding calories in the form of energy (to create a slight surplus here) and raw materials (EAA's, EFA's) to promote growth. This can all be done while keeping a close eye on bodyfat stores. If they begin to inflate, we can easily make adjustments and corrections. The body will be in the ideal physiologic state to grow- after having been calorie restricted and likely carb restricted our muscles are very sensitized to anabolic hormones like insulin.

Many of my clients, as well as myself have experienced increases in muscle mass even in a caloric deficit. This is because we are providing adequate amounts of ESSENTIAL nutrients for recovery and growth. One may be very surprised at how less calories, form the right sources may actually often times be better than more calories form less essential sources. I typically recommend something along the lines of this:

Coming out of the contest or having been maintaining a comparably lean physique, one was probably eating: (using a keto diet as an example)

protein - 1.5g/lb LBM
fat - .5g/lb LBM
carbs - .125-.25g/lb LBM (trace carbs <50g per day for avg 200lb bber)

so now we're ready to grow. Lets stop using the EFA's as an energy source and reserve them for growth, how do we do this? provide an alternative energy source- carbs. Lets add them in during meal 1, meal prior to W/O and meal after W/O getting about .5g/lb LBM from carbs (including trace). Do this for 1-2 weeks and assess energy levels. If adequate, proceed until you reach a plateau. If not adequate, add more carbs to each of those meals or add them to some other meals until you find a good balance to match your energy expenditure in the day (without gaining fat). When the plateau is reached (will take a while- muscle isnt built THAT quickly), we can increase protein to 1.75g/lb LBM for instance. wait for another plateau, then increase to 2g/lb LBM. Keep in mind this is done over months not days or weeks! When I say add protein, I'm assuming one will be adding it from whole food sources (meats). The increase in meat portions will lead to an increase in EFA intake. ALSO, I assume (as i suggest) that most of the previous "trace" carbs come from fibrous green veggies. Therefore even in the off season it is important to have alot of green veggies- ESPECIALLY with the lower carb meals during the day. They will keep you full and keep your metabolism up. ALWAYS eat lots of greens! the potassium content in these leafy greens is also very nitrogen retentive!

**aside: I recommend people get their dietary fat from animal fat. HOWEVER seek quality animal fat, from things like grass fed beef/bison/turkey, omega-3 eggs, SALMON etc. (I can get into the details of why this is preferred in another thread)

Now this is the very base of the plan. There are ways to enhance it like if the athlete wants to use insulin etc etc. We wont start micromanaging here though.

Don't believe me? Kevin Levrone looked his best when he was eating steak and salmon as his primary protein sources. Robert Burnieka (huge and LEAN newer guy) eats lots of salmon and red meat. (I can get into why these two meat sources, along with eggs are my favorite in another thread...very interesting stuff!)...oh and our current MR OLYMPIA- Jay cutler looked REALLY good after having incorporated more EFA's into his diet....as opposed to his previous low fat, high carb approach.

This is the exact diet I have my peeps on! Surprisingly it works doesnt it!

[unoigo]

Originally Posted by hawkmoon

Great post, thanks.
Regarding whole foods and meat - I feel I look much better (and feel better) since increasing my meats and decreasing my shakes. Just my experience, but it does agree with your methods.
I am hoping to increase them even more by swapping out the morning powder in my oatmeal for more steak.

Totally agree and I've experienced very similar results. I've made all of my meals whole food with the expception of a PWO and night shake. My physique defintiley as a different appreance using whole foods vs shakes.

[FoodFreak]

Originally Posted by PHIL HERNON

This is the exact diet I have my peeps on! Surprisingly it works doesnt it!

haha yes my friend! I dont know why it has taken so long for bodybuilders to open their eyes to the science of nutrition rather than the anecdotal habits that have been passed on by the infamous low-fat dieting years LOL!

[PHIL HERNON]

Originally Posted by FoodFreak

haha yes my friend! I dont know why it has taken so long for bodybuilders to open their eyes to the science of nutrition rather than the anecdotal habits that have been passed on by the infamous low-fat dieting years LOL!

When I give out this diet I have had people literally tell me they cant do it because they want to get huge..........ajahahhahahhaha. They never TRY it and they quit..........mostly younger guys because thy are being lied to by others and thing gaining muscle is just about eating big.........the older guys stick with it and look AWESOME.

[FoodFreak]

Originally Posted by PHIL HERNON

When I give out this diet I have had people literally tell me they cant do it because they want to get huge..........ajahahhahahhaha. They never TRY it and they quit..........mostly younger guys because thy are being lied to by others and thing gaining muscle is just about eating big.........the older guys stick with it and look AWESOME.

hahah yea its their loss then! The fact of the matter is, science is science. There is no reason to over-eat, rather just eat enough of the RIGHT things at the RIGHT times in the RIGHT ways hahahaa.

[Shelby]

where are the egg mcmuffins and chinese buffets?

[Lenny]

Originally Posted by Shelby

where are the egg mcmuffins and chinese buffets?

But, Shelby, I slipped up last night and ate a whole bag of pretzels with my protein shake...is that not okay?? I didn't have any available fruit on hand!

[FoodFreak]

Originally Posted by Shelby

where are the egg mcmuffins and chinese buffets?

they should be on the way to the dialysis treatment and triple bypass surgery center...

[concreteguy]

Originally Posted by FoodFreak

Okay, protein - 1.5g/lb LBM
fat - .5g/lb LBM
carbs - .125-.25g/lb LBM (trace carbs <50g per day for avg 200lb bber)
.

How can you keep your carbs in check and still have enough to offset the isulin protocol? Do you count the carbs for the insulin protocol in the diet?
How would you enhance it?
Maybe I'm just having a senior moment.....

[VTliftVT]

Originally Posted by concreteguy

How can you keep your carbs in check and still have enough to offset the isulin protocol? Do you count the carbs for the insulin protocol in the diet?
How would you enhance it?
Maybe I'm just having a senior moment.....

Carbs aren't the only source that can be used to raise blood sugar