To The Guys...

[OuchThatHurts]

Actually to whomever. I posted this in another thread that was sort of buried so I thought I'd post it here so that everyone might have a chance to share their experiences. I get a lot of PM's and emails regarding breakups and why, oh WHY could this happen?!? How can she just turn off her feelings? I wrote the below in response to that exact question and someone has asked me to make this a thread.

It used to perplex me why, it seemed, the majority of women would go from relationship to relationship sometimes in very short time (month, weeks, or even days) while men, on the other hand, will suffer terrible anguish for months on end before they let it go. If you don't believe me, well... just read this forum!

First, let me say that I think women are adorable people and this might seem derogatory to some extent but what I'm saying is that the following may be true much of the time but definitely not all of the time. All people are different but sometimes there's some commonality. Had to get my disclaimer in there because heck... there's women on this board!

I truly believe that women are much more sensitive and in tune of a man's feelings than a man is of a woman's feelings. Probably largely in part that women are for many reasons much more able to express emotions openly and without judgment than a man is. When I say " many reasons" I mean upbringing, societal pressure, etc. Since they are able to indulge in the expression and cultivation of their emotions, the emotional nature becomes a larger part of their human language (verbal, physical, etc.)

Men, however, are under pressure to AVOID getting emotional - to keep hold of themselves and behave in a way that befits a man. That's right! Get a hold of yourself, man! Sometimes though, not only do I believe this can be a good thing, but I think sometimes the suppression and control of emotions is absolutely necessary to the man's health and the health of everyone around him.

I'm trying very hard not to write a textbook here, so let's just say that men, whatever the reason may be, will often behave in ways that are deeply hurtful to a women's feelings. Maybe even sometimes physical but let's stick to a normal scenario. Women accept these hurtful things and allow them to build up - sometime even for years. Women often go to almost ridiculous lengths to try to express to a man how hurt they are and oftentimes can't even articulate the reason why so the cry for help will just fall on deaf ears to the man because he says, "She's on the rag. She's crying again and can't even tell me why." And why? Because they are not upset about one single item but a many! It's a year, or two years, or 10 years of pain that are in there. So this is all a double edged sword because while she'll put up with your dumb ass, and the pain of getting cheated on, always late, never call, roll over and go to sleep, it's all getting duly noted inside her. And that big well of shit will eventually start to chip away and the foundation of her feelings for the man.

Time goes by, and these feelings she once felt so strongly for this man are slowly dying, day by day, and the man goes about his business as she doesn't seem to care if he stays out all night, or go out with his friends on her birthday, whatever. He's thinking, "I can't believe she's letting me do this!" Further and further away she drifts until at some point in time the feelings she once had for the man are completely and utterly gone. Then SHE begins to go out, stay out later and later, txt messaging, staying up all night on the internet. Well, she finally meets a guy who's new, exciting, listens to every word she says (or at least acts like he gives a shit) and then the next thing you know.....? What happens?

"We need to talk..."

WHAM!

She breaks up with the man and what do you know? She's dating new interesting guy a week later! A whore? NO, YOU DUMBASS! She was done with your ass months ago! She was already over you and grieved and cried, and was depressed at your loss and the death a looooong time before she uttered the words, "We need to talk..."

So the way it really is, and the way it often appears, can be very different.

I'm sure this is full of grammatical errors and obviously it doesn't apply to every single case but many times, boys, she's over you long before you ever know about it. If she is a healthy female and you hurt her feelings for long enough, she will leave. I give you my word on that.

So my word of wisdom here guys is simply this: Be a good and faithful man, because if you start screwing around, the only ass that will be getting screwed eventually is your own.

[oldfella]

Well there you go, finally someone has put into words what every woman has tried to tell all us dumbasses for years. Ouch this is a classic brother and I take my hat off to you. This is the truth as plain as day.

I have been fortnate or unfortunate enough to work this out about women. So that is the fortunate side of things. The unfortunate side of it is it cost me my marriage of twenty years. That was about three years ago. I never cheated but did neglect so much of what Ouch has in this post. So yes she put up with a lot on my bullshit for years until it was, "I want out". Out of your life, out of this house and just out all together.

Moral of this story and for other guys here, sit down, listen with your heart and your mind to what your girl is trying to tell you. Pay attention and don't pretned to be listening, that will bite you in the ass later if you do.

The word is sensitive, be sensisitive to her needs and wants.

Great post Ouch!!

[hwood]

Ouch, my man. I won't get into details of my own last 15 years in a relationship, however, you summarized exactly and empathetically what she and then - ultimately - I went through. I had a lump in my throat the whole time reading your message.

I can tell you it comes from someone looking in the rearview mirror, and that can now see things with clear eyes, clear head, and love in your heart.

I still struggle - as does she - but it gets a little better every single day.

Very good post, my man.

[cslim]

Awesome and totally true post, Ouch!

[thebrick]

great post Ouch! But, do you think us guys will "get it" because its written in black and white?

[OuchThatHurts]

Originally Posted by thebrick

great post Ouch! But, do you think us guys will "get it" because its written in black and white?

Well one in ten of us, including myself, are colorblind. As to 1 in 50 for women. So hopefully our "rods" will prevail. PUN INTENDED.

(I hope someone here gets that LOL)

[thebrick]

Originally Posted by OuchThatHurts

Well one in ten of us, including myself, are colorblind. As to 1 in 50 for women. So hopefully our "rods" will prevail. PUN INTENDED.

(I hope someone here gets that LOL)

Well, my wife claims that most men think with their "rods"… I don't see it

[meanjoebean]

HAHA rods and cones, good one. Great post by the way, I think you're spot on.

[wrought]

Originally Posted by OuchThatHurts

So my word of wisdom here guys is simply this: Be a good and faithful man, because if you start screwing around, the only ass that will be getting screwed eventually is your own.

That's a great post Ouch and conversely its worth noting that if you are good and faithful man, she may still screw around on you and then you're left to rationalize an explanation where it is really your behaviour that was the cause of her unfaithfulness. Life may be inconsistent, but at least it keeps things interesting.

[mo chuisle]

Originally Posted by OuchThatHurts

I truly believe that women are much more sensitive and in tune of a man's feelings than a man is of a woman's feelings. Men, however, are under pressure to AVOID getting emotional - to keep hold of themselves and behave in a way that befits a man.

Women accept these hurtful things and allow them to build up - sometime even for years. Women often go to almost ridiculous lengths to try to express to a man how hurt they are and oftentimes can't even articulate the reason why ... And that big well of shit will eventually start to chip away and the foundation of her feelings for the man.

Time goes by, and these feelings she once felt so strongly for this man are slowly dying, day by day, and the man goes about his business as she doesn't seem to care if he stays out all night, or go out with his friends on her birthday, whatever ...

She was done with your ass months ago! She was already over you and grieved and cried, and was depressed at your loss and the death a looooong time before she uttered the words, "We need to talk..."

So the way it really is, and the way it often appears, can be very different.

So true, Ouch. Very well put! I just went through something like you just described ...

[OuchThatHurts]

Originally Posted by wrought

That's a great post Ouch and conversely its worth noting that if you are good and faithful man, she may still screw around on you and then you're left to rationalize an explanation where it is really your behaviour that was the cause of her unfaithfulness. Life may be inconsistent, but at least it keeps things interesting.

Oh sure! I didn't mean screwing around as in having sex with other women. Bad choice of words on my part. I just mean it as in, "Hey guys don't screw this up!"

But alas, you are right. You can do everything seemingly right and things will go wrong but that's not your fault and you don't need to own that. It doesn't even mean she did anything wrong. Sometimes it's simply not meant to be.

Originally Posted by mo chuisle

So true, Ouch. Very well put! I just went through something like you just described ...

Well thank you but I'm very sorry to hear that. How are things going? I'd believe you if you told me you took it out on the competition because you've been doing and looking phenomenal. I'm glad you're through it and hopefully you're having some fun. Make time to play. We spend enough time working.

[mo chuisle]

Originally Posted by OuchThatHurts

Well thank you but I'm very sorry to hear that. How are things going? I'd believe you if you told me you took it out on the competition because you've been doing and looking phenomenal. I'm glad you're through it and hopefully you're having some fun. Make time to play. We spend enough time working.

Thanks, and you're right - I took all the negative things and turned them into motivation for my shows. I stopped feeling guilty for spending more time at the gym than with someone else, and really focused on my training. Life is good right now!

[Big Bapper]

I think allot of guys pre-contest should remember this thread, thank you for starting this thread OTH. Both you and sigmund amaze me with your intellengents and insight into life.

Respect.

[Sassy]

Very good post OTH.

Guys, there is a very good book that is written by Gary Smalley called If only he knew: What no woman can resist

During my first marriage, my mom bought this book for my brother and husband to read. Knowing that my husband would never in a million years read a book recommended by my mom, I talked to his sister. She and her husband had been to Gary Smalley's seminars and read several of his books. She recommended to my husband. Anyway he read it, but things in our marriage didn't get any better and needless to say we are divorced now.

I can tell you this book is a great book. I read it because I thought how would a man know what I was feeling. He does a very good job covering some key problems in a marriage or relationship.

Anyway... I still recommend it.

[OuchThatHurts]

Originally Posted by Sassy

Very good post OTH.

Guys, there is a very good book that is written by Gary Smalley called If only he knew: What no woman can resist

During my first marriage, my mom bought this book for my brother and husband to read. Knowing that my husband would never in a million years read a book recommended by my mom, I talked to his sister. She and her husband had been to Gary Smalley's seminars and read several of his books. She recommended to my husband. Anyway he read it, but things in our marriage didn't get any better and needless to say we are divorced now.

I can tell you this book is a great book. I read it because I thought how would a man know what I was feeling. He does a very good job covering some key problems in a marriage or relationship.

Anyway... I still recommend it.

Okay guys. This advice came from a woman so it's probably worth a look!

[Kaiser]

Funny thing is OTH, I just sent Simone a text message stating that I loved her for putting up with my extreme ways about 10 minutes before reading this. I'm not the easiest to get along with as far as a relationship is concerned, especially knowing that I am not suited for one woman sexually. Either way, awesome thread created by you as usual, and thanks to Simone for putting up with my overwhelming libido.

[OuchThatHurts]

Originally Posted by Kaiser

Funny thing is OTH, I just sent Simone a text message stating that I loved her for putting up with my extreme ways about 10 minutes before reading this. I'm not the easiest to get along with as far as a relationship is concerned, especially knowing that I am not suited for one woman sexually. Either way, awesome thread created by you as usual, and thanks to Simone for putting up with my overwhelming libido.

Thank you my friend. Simone's a nice gal to put up with you for sure. Sexy too. I have to go back to Jersey. I was just there for 4 days on the the southern most tip. Got to see a few sunsets on the water. We don't get that opportunity out here on the east coast too much.

Ah, you know we all love ya.

[Kaiser]

When you are ready to come back, mi casa, su casa. Let me know.

[Sassy]

You can't place failed relationships on just men or women. I certainly don't believe in men bashing, and I've been treated pretty crappy by some men.

It goes both ways that is why communication is so important. You have some men that are more emotional than some women. Some women have higher sex drives than some men. Some women just can't stay faithful just like there are some men who can't be faithful. The main thing the keeps a relationship strong is communication and respect for each other. It also helps to find someone who you are compatible with.

Some of the things I found lacking in my marriage that killed it for me:

• He didn't need me. I guess men want to show how strong they can be. There should be a balance. Yes, I want someone who is strong emotionally, but I also want to know that I'm needed too.

• He always trying to fix things. Once again, it was great that he wanted to fix all my problems. Some things you have to do yourself. You have to work through them on your own. It got to be where he was always telling what I should or shouldn't do. It was like I couldn't make a decision on my own. When all I really needed from his was to listen too me. Sometimes don't take what your woman is saying to heart. Lend her your ear instead of doing all the talking.

• He wanted to change me. Correcting me in front of people when I was talking. Constantly telling me what I did wrong. He always has a better way of doing things. He was an engineer. Part of my career is a graphic designer. Our minds think differently than a engineer, but just because I don't think that way, doesn't mean my way is the right or wrong way. He never ever worked out, and I never asked him to go to the gym. I accepted this about him. However, I was given an ultimatum him or the gym.

• Housework... is this a fight that you have a lot. You work all week. She works all week, but is she doing all the housework? Come on guys. I can guarantee that she doesn't like doing housework either. Truth be know she hates it! Give her a hand and don't wait for her to tell you to do something. You will score more points this way.

• Tell her that she is beautiful. I was married 8 years, and he never once told me I looked beautiful. No, I'm not exaggerating. I use joke with people that I could cut off my right arm and he wouldn't notice. On those occasions when your woman steps into the room and you think "WOW".... be sure and tell her. Don't keep it to yourself.

• Put your wife first. I was not the most important thing to him. If I was, I never new it. There was always something more important going on. I felt so far down his list that I'm not sure where I fit in. He never had time for me. He was a workaholic. He spent all of his time either at work or school.

• Sex. This subject doesn't sound like a problem for you guys, but it was for me. He never wanted sex. We would go just about 3 months before he want any. The longest was 6. I couldn't figure out what was wrong with me. He even moved into the guest bedroom and slept there until I asked for a divorce.

• Find something you two have in common to do together. It's ok to have separate hobbies, but be sure and find something that both enjoy doing. This is important because it keeps you from growing apart. We grew apart. We didn't have anything in common.

Too many time men and women get married and think it's going to be like a fairy tale. There are too many unrealistic expectations. Instead of recognizing the differences between men and women and trying to work through them. Too many times we just quit working and give up. This goes for both men and women. I know it seems like I'm picking on you I'm not... I have a target audience. I know it works both ways.

[OuchThatHurts]

Originally Posted by Sassy

You can't place failed relationships on just men or women. I certainly don't believe in men bashing, and I've been treated pretty crappy by some men.

It goes both ways that is why communication is so important. You have some men that are more emotional than some women. Some women have higher sex drives than some men. Some women just can't stay faithful just like there are some men who can't be faithful. The main thing the keeps a relationship strong is communication and respect for each other. It also helps to find someone who you are compatible with.

Some of the things I found lacking in my marriage that killed it for me:

Too many time men and women get married and think it's going to be like a fairy tale. There are too many unrealistic expectations. Instead of recognizing the differences between men and women and trying to work through them. Too many times we just quit working and give up. This goes for both men and women. I know it seems like I'm picking on you I'm not... I have a target audience. I know it works both ways.

Great, great post! I know it wasn't easy to put yourself out there so do you mind if I ask you a few questions? Obviously you don't have to answer but if I may:

• He didn't need me. I guess men want to show how strong they can be. There should be a balance. Yes, I want someone who is strong emotionally, but I also want to know that I'm needed too.

Did you reinforce to him that you felt he was strong and assure him that he had nothing to prove? Perhaps he was or at least felt he was lacking in his male role?

• He always trying to fix things. Once again, it was great that he wanted to fix all my problems. Some things you have to do yourself. You have to work through them on your own. It got to be where he was always telling what I should or shouldn't do. It was like I couldn't make a decision on my own. When all I really needed from his was to listen too me. Sometimes don't take what your woman is saying to heart. Lend her your ear instead of doing all the talking.

This sounds much like the above - him needing to show or prove his worth not just as a person, but as a man.

• He wanted to change me. Correcting me in front of people when I was talking. Constantly telling me what I did wrong. He always has a better way of doing things. He was an engineer. Part of my career is a graphic designer. Our minds think differently than a engineer, but just because I don't think that way, doesn't mean my way is the right or wrong way. He never ever worked out, and I never asked him to go to the gym. I accepted this about him. However, I was given an ultimatum him or the gym.

This is sort of a tough one but I'll bet the person he was really correcting was himself. It sounds as though by being hyper-critical of you, he perhaps wasn't quite so bad.

• Housework... is this a fight that you have a lot. You work all week. She works all week, but is she doing all the housework? Come on guys. I can guarantee that she doesn't like doing housework either. Truth be know she hates it! Give her a hand and don't wait for her to tell you to do something. You will score more points this way.

Okay, this is a deadbeat thing that both girls and guys do. However, men and women often have different views of what's an acceptable standard of living. Even so, by him expecting the house to be cleaned by you, it could easily have been one more way he could, even if subconsciously, make you feel bad about you. The way he felt bad about him.

• Tell her that she is beautiful. I was married 8 years, and he never once told me I looked beautiful. No, I'm not exaggerating. I use joke with people that I could cut off my right arm and he wouldn't notice. On those occasions when your woman steps into the room and you think "WOW".... be sure and tell her. Don't keep it to yourself.

• Put your wife first. I was not the most important thing to him. If I was, I never new it. There was always something more important going on. I felt so far down his list that I'm not sure where I fit in. He never had time for me. He was a workaholic. He spent all of his time either at work or school.

I combined these because this is just more neglect towards you and the relationship on his part.

• Sex. This subject doesn't sound like a problem for you guys, but it was for me. He never wanted sex. We would go just about 3 months before he want any. The longest was 6. I couldn't figure out what was wrong with me. He even moved into the guest bedroom and slept there until I asked for a divorce.

This could be for many reasons. Questions I might ask you would be if you think you did everything to make yourself sexually attractive to him. Not just in a physical way, but in a vulnerable way. Much can play into this. First, your feelings of neglect may have led to you intentionally, even if not consciously, being unattractive or not enticing to him. This type of complex manipulation can happen from both sides and not always on the surface which is the exact reason why it can go on for years yet the problems remain unsolved.

• Find something you two have in common to do together. It's ok to have separate hobbies, but be sure and find something that both enjoy doing. This is important because it keeps you from growing apart. We grew apart. We didn't have anything in common.

I'm being presumptuous here but I think growing apart, as you say, is exactly what you both wanted based on what I've read. Sooner or later, one or both sides just say to hell with it and go on elsewhere. Above all things, the one thing that seems to be missing here is solid communication. I'm sure the two of you communicated these feelings but I bet it was not in a constructive manner and on neutral ground. Did communication eventually become hostile confrontations or was there simply no communication?

The two of you may have felt love for one another, you may have even been in love, but did you really like each other? Sometimes the idea of a couple is much better than the reality of the couple itself.

Again, great post and I'm so glad that you took the time to share this with us. You seem like a much happier person today so I'm very happy for you and your love.

Take care,

OTH