Shawn Ray- Gurus, Killers & Liars

[Kaladryn]

Very strong is putting it mildly. He would be very strong for an adult member on this site. Okay I'm going to say it. I'm certain both of them have run steroids already. If you agree, consider how young they are. I only saw Bostin and Leo Rex mentioning steroids in this relation - shows they are the very few willing to mention what everyone, I imagine, is thinking. And Leo fan boy'ed Chad hard when he was on his podcast so it doesn't appear he is against a 14 year old running gear. I've followed powerlifting and bodybuilding for 3 decades and a 14 year old, with his build and with no arch, is extremely unlikely to bench four plates even if he had been powerlifting from the preteens - plus you could tell he wasn't a powerlifter by his technique.

Who agrees with me saying the kids have run gear? If you do, what does it say about Chad?

14 year old "playing with 365 on the bench":

29K views · 2.4K likes | Chad Nicholls on Instagram: "My 14 year old son @raising_mayhem playing around with 365 on flat bench"

2,498 likes, 79 comments - thedietdoc on July 11, 2021: "My 14 year old son @raising_mayhem playing around with 365 on flat bench"

www.instagram.com

The older kid, who is also very strong:

Chad Nicholls on Instagram

My oldest getting serious about training - got mama’s @mzolympia genetics so the sky’s the limit. Repost from @_dominic_nicholls_ • Full sw...

www.instagram.com

I've seen a 16-year-old bench 5 plates (with a minor spot) back in high school. He was 320lbs, I really doubt he used AAS as he had open-heart surgery when he was younger and was terrified of them. He was from a whole family of monstrously strong Samoans though.

 

[cage99]

Very strong is putting it mildly. He would be very strong for an adult member on this site. Okay I'm going to say it. I'm certain both of them have run steroids already. If you agree, consider how young they are. I only saw Bostin and Leo Rex mentioning steroids in this relation - shows they are the very few willing to mention what everyone, I imagine, is thinking. And Leo fan boy'ed Chad hard when he was on his podcast so it doesn't appear he is against a 14 year old running gear. I've followed powerlifting and bodybuilding for 3 decades and a 14 year old, with his build and with no arch, is extremely unlikely to bench four plates even if he had been powerlifting from the preteens - plus you could tell he wasn't a powerlifter by his technique.

Who agrees with me saying the kids have run gear? If you do, what does it say about Chad?

14 year old "playing with 365 on the bench":

29K views · 2.4K likes | Chad Nicholls on Instagram: "My 14 year old son @raising_mayhem playing around with 365 on flat bench"

2,498 likes, 79 comments - thedietdoc on July 11, 2021: "My 14 year old son @raising_mayhem playing around with 365 on flat bench"

www.instagram.com

The older kid, who is also very strong:

Chad Nicholls on Instagram

My oldest getting serious about training - got mama’s @mzolympia genetics so the sky’s the limit. Repost from @_dominic_nicholls_ • Full sw...

www.instagram.com

Wow… At 14 I think I was happy to be able to bench 155…. 365lbs and 14 years old and he’s not some monstrous 6’4” 300lb freak either. I hope they’re not using AAS.

Cage

 

[KillerStack]

I've seen a 16-year-old bench 5 plates (with a minor spot) back in high school. He was 320lbs, I really doubt he used AAS as he had open-heart surgery when he was younger and was terrified of them. He was from a whole family of monstrously strong Samoans though.

Exactly, obese lifters are something else and if they sport a retarded arch and max-width grip it makes it even more likely that they can bench big weights. Chad's kid is just 14 though, huge difference at these teen years. He is big for 14 but he isn't fat, he tries to hit an arch but doesn't really manage it, plus he has a medium grip. In the video I posted he does 5 reps with 365 which is nuts. Even with a little bit of steroids it's pretty crazy. I mean he can't have been on them for that long. However, I'd bet anything he has used them. I don't know Chad but I think he is just the person to do it with his kids. The guy almost killed Ronnie Coleman according to Ronnie himself. Dillet missed an Olympia due to a last minute insulin mishap and Chad said he took the blame; he should have been there to watch him eat Lol. Also known for doing loop diuretics. Juiced his wife to monstrous proportions. Point being that he's taken major risks with his athletes.

How many on this forum are as strong as his 14 year old? Or both his kids? Children! Lol.

 

[bornonthebayou]

if i have to start running DNP & insane water pill protocols to win shows, I'm buying a boat or golf clubs.. I have a hard time believing the most genetically elite humans in our sport are having to/need to run stuff like that to be in shape.

 

[KillerStack]

Wow… At 14 I think I was happy to be able to bench 155…. 365lbs and 14 years old and he’s not some monstrous 6’4” 300lb freak either. I hope they’re not using AAS.

Cage

You hope, but what does your gut say?
I've followed drug tested IPF lifters and this kid equals some senior World Champs benches in pure strength at 14 years old. How likely is that? Dad a guy who gives juice advice to pros and amateurs. Mother a multiple time Ms Olympia.

 

[BigTex]

I am glad someone like Shawn Ray is speaking up and telling the truth. While the athlete does have the ultimate responsibility over their own body too many put 100% trust into these over priced GURUS. I have kept my mouth shut for 8 years about an experience my wife had with one of the individuals mentioned here. My wife turned pro a long time ago after winning the nationals in BB. She wanted to get back in the mix 10 years later and wanted some help. In her former country she had coaches lifting partners but diets and medications were provided by doctors that were paid for by her country. She was constantly monitored. None of that here.

In the 27 years of very high level competition in powerlifting I NEVER had anyone tell me what to do. I did it all myself. Trained with a lot of very good lifters but all they were is training partners. My wife won the nationals the same way with advice from training partners and muscle mags but medical doctors helped with drugs and diet. When she came to the USA she actually worked with one of these big name gurus mentioned, she was 51 years old at the time. I am not going to mention any name but it was a total waste of money and ended up costing us a few $1000 in endocrinologist bills. My wife followed the protocol specifically until it was hard to function in day to day life and was later diagnosed by an endocrinologist with adrenal insufficiency. Took months to recover from that. Never again. Here are the symptoms she had when I finally took her to see an endocrinologists.

• chronic fatigue
• muscle weakness
• loss of appetite
• weight loss
• digestive issues (including abdominal pain, nausea, vomiting, diarrhea)
• low blood pressure
• dizziness/fainting
• mood changes - irritability to depression
• headaches
• cravings for salty foods
• low blood sugar
• trouble sleeping, feeling extremely tired
• night-sweating
• irregular and missed period
• low libido

Her immune system finally dropped to the point she was having throat infections etc weekly.

I still have the protocol that she was given.

Here is part of it:
* Very low calorie, zero carb diet
She was at the gym at 5am doing cardio on an empty stomach 7 days a week for about 1 hour (HIIT/steady state)
(all to be done in the AM on an empty stomach):
25mcg T3 and 40mcg clenbuterol
Also take the following cocktail before all morning cardio sessions:
10mg yohimbine HCL
200mg caffeine
1,000mg l-tyrosine

What we found out from the doctor is continued high levels of stress, poor diet, and over training all lead to adrenal insufficiency. All of the stimulants caused a very high level of stress in the body, low calories and extreme exercise also lead to issues. A GURU/coach seriously needs to be there to recognize this stuff when it starts and this can't be done by email, my wife still takes the blame. Blood tests revealed that my wife's ACTH, cortisol, and aldosterone levels were way off. She was given ACTH at the doctor's office and a couple of other medications (methylprednisolone/ fludrocortisone ) and the rest was stopping all the stimulants, stopping the extreme exercise protocol and adding some calories back into the diet. She also had to add salt and potassium to her diet.

My wife blames herself but in her defense WE BOTH trusted this PRO to give her good advice, especially for the money spent. She wanted very badly to see results for what she paid. My wife won't pussy out and will continue and was very determined to make this work, she put 100% trust and faith in the advice she was given. I was working as a football coach and not home much so it took me a while to finally see things weren't right. I finally talked with her about it and got her to a doctor. It took almost a year to finally get back to feeling normal again. I have been very nice about this and never said anything until today. It happened 8 years ago. While we both accept full responsibility, it is little wonder people are dying following this ridiculous advice. Like Shawn said, these people are dangerous and talking money from people with BAD advice. NO TWO people can do the same protocol and get the same results since we are all different.

 

[Fit2Serve]

tough love here.... totally competitors fault.
to WILLINGLY do such an insane diet and drug protocol is not smart. at all. for a plastic trophy no less. yikes.
With Phil Hernon as my coach i was on test prop and an anabolic plus proviron and aromosin. thats it. 1st place heavyweight npc national qualifier.
7 min cardio post workout
eat when hungry.
was peeled and full.
what people will do and then try to blame others is insane. i see it all the time in my business. customer will order 3 tortillas and then go off on us cuz they got 3 tortillas but meant to click on 9.
You guys ordered a drug protocol and diet from a guru and got one.
Now you wanna blame... you got what you paid for right? a diet and drug plan.
you guys ordered it. wanted it. chose to follow it.
id NEVER follow something like that and def NEVER EVER let my wife do that. ever.

 

[beast405]

At the end of the day it is up to the individual to do or not do what the coach/guru is telling them. Everybody should do their own research on what is safe and what’s not. Just my opinion

 

[BigTex]

Yes and we both take 100% of the blame. Let the buyer be ware. But being a top level competitive athlete in several different sports for most all of my life as well as working with top level athletes I realize that athletes are willing to do what ever it takes to accomplish their goals, many times ignoring common sense. This at times makes us a bit gullible as well as high risk takers all for the sake of winning. Ask yourself, why anyone would step under a squat rack with 1000lbs on a bar and attempt to squat the weight. That's not even sane. One thing goes wrong and your in the hospital all for a $2 trophy. If it weren't for the risk taking and gullibility of athletes to get that edge, the entire supplement industry would not exist. I can't count the number of $$ I have wasted on snake oil in the hopes of being a tiny bit stronger. Of course its buyer beware, but at some point in time the those that are pushing the snake oil need to be exposed. I probably should have come out years ago about this and at least one woman's live might not have been lost.

My wife went IFBB Pro in 1990, she was on some very heavy androgens but was being monitored by medical doctors. She trusted me that this "IFBB Pro" knew what he was talking about. I don't train my wife and certainly don't tell her what to take, how to train or how to diet. Winning the nationals and going pro tells me she has plenty of knowledge. She is also grown woman and not a child that has to be told what to do. If I was the you type guy who tells my wife what to do she would be out the front door long ago. At the time I worked 12 hour+ a day 7 days a week so I hardly knew what was happening in my own house. While we both take full blame, this type of shit has to stop. These so called GURUS need to be held to the same level of accountability as all other professional coaches/trainers of any other sport. While I am now retired I still work in the industry as a professor of kinesiology and would definitely be fired if I gave idiotic advice that is not supported by good conscience, ethics or even science. I had a kid get hurt in a our college gym doing something he was not taught to do and the amount of paperwork, administrative reviews and attorneys I had to deal with were ridiculous. But I had to show I was not negligent. Maybe our GURUS need to be held to the same standard?

As a long time coach, and well respected strength coach and nutritionist I take 100% responsibility for my advice and coaching. I have never had a athlete injured from my advice and coaching in the 25 years I worked. Had I given out advice that caused injury, I would 1. be fired, 2. could be held civilly liable. There are consequences for being irresponsible. 25 years of athletes I trained trusted me 100% with their safety, understanding that I was going to push them to the edge but not get them hurt. For me to be arrogant enough to cause the injury of an athlete and then sit back and say it's YOUR FAULT because you were stupid enough to follow my advice is ridiculous. Most professionals that work as coaches, the job involves yearly training and yearly certification to help avoid injury because in the end you are very definitely liable. As a football coach, if a kids spears another and gets a neck injury, in a law suit the coach will have to prove he taught proper tackling methods and has been certified to coach that skill. There will also be a professional review board who also asks these questions. Most personal trainers now have to provide both certification and liability insurance as well as a educational back ground in the area. Only because so many idiots prior were giving bad advice and the gym owner was getting sued. Maybe what needs to happen is a huge lawsuit needs to be filed and start holding these guys accountable for the cookie cutter training and supplementation plans they are selling. My wife thought she was getting a personalized plan only to find out he gives the same damn plan to everyone to this date. Even I was shock to the point of my mouth being open when I listened to a video earlier taking about this guy. Really, everyone gets the cut and paste job? Talk about fraud! Most all other coaches are held to this same strict standards and its time these so called GURUS are held accountable for what they do to. This is not every going to happen when those that get hurt just walk off and say I should have known better....it my fault.

I just listened to a scathing video by a pro level female BB who called this same coach out. When she told the protocol others were doing HOLY SHIT. it is exactly the same as what my wife did. And we paid lots of money for this cut and paste job? I knew this guy personally and felt I could trust him better that this. I honestly though it was common knowledge in this business that one size doesn't fit all because we are ALL individual and react differently. This guy never gave a shit about the long questionnaire he sent and the questions about health and drugs being used. He give everyone the same fucking plan. This is dishonest and personally I felt like someone I had done some favors for and trusted stabbed me in the wife. Had I known, I would have never put my wife in tough with this guy. So yea it a little personal but I have now disclosed his name. Its not just about 1 guy its about a trend that has happened over the past 15-20 years.

 

[warlock]

tough love here.... totally competitors fault.
to WILLINGLY do such an insane diet and drug protocol is not smart. at all. for a plastic trophy no less. yikes.
With Phil Hernon as my coach i was on test prop and an anabolic plus proviron and aromosin. thats it. 1st place heavyweight npc national qualifier.
7 min cardio post workout
eat when hungry.
was peeled and full.
what people will do and then try to blame others is insane. i see it all the time in my business. customer will order 3 tortillas and then go off on us cuz they got 3 tortillas but meant to click on 9.
You guys ordered a drug protocol and diet from a guru and got one.
Now you wanna blame... you got what you paid for right? a diet and drug plan.
you guys ordered it. wanted it. chose to follow it.
id NEVER follow something like that and def NEVER EVER let my wife do that. ever.

Not trying for you to lay out the exact protocol but ,were doses on those on the low side? Was that the final part of the cycle prior to contest?

 

[cage99]

@BigTex, sorry y’all had to deal with the health issues. Sounds like you got taken for a ride by a con-artist, but one that has a good reputation. Glad to hear your wife has fully recovered. Best thing to do is spread the word in your circle to NOT utilize this coach. In time hopefully they’ll lose clients. Eventually word spreads and they’ll develop the wrong rep and be yesterday’s news!

Cage

 

[aphextwin]

Why is Ameen even in on this conversation? I’ve never liked that guy.

 

[FK86]

At end of the day, imo totally my responsibility what goes in my body.

if my daughter died during a contest prep and i found out someone was telling her things to take etc. id DEF sue for wrongful death at the least.

i was shocked Dallas MacCarvers parents didnt do or really say anything....

tough love here.... totally competitors fault.

def NEVER EVER let my wife do that. ever.

Each of these statements conflict with each other with the final statement interfering on someone else’s decision making. Where do you actually stand on this?

 

[FK86]

The issue is the protocols and their details. If a coach tells a competitor they are now going to be using T3, Clenbuterol, and Dyazide and that person has never done them before then the competitor should do some research and educate themselves to make the decision if they want to do it or not. However, they’re not going to know the difference and effects of various doses. It’s likely one of the reasons they hired the alleged expert because they should know the various effects. An experienced coach should know the difference between:

Clen 40 mcg ED, GH 4 IU ED, T3 25 mcg ED, A-DEX 0.5 mg EOD

Clen 60 mcg ED, GH 4 IU ED, T3 37 mcg ED, A-DEX 0.5 mg EOD, 30 mg usnic acid ED

Clen 100 mcg ED, GH 4 IU ED, T3 62 mcg ED, A-DEX 1 mg EOD, 50 mg usnic acid ED

And whether or not you run the risk of severe health issues or death. If they don’t, they 100% should not be coaching on that part. The competitor is likely not going to know when things are getting bad because they hired/trusted someone to prep them. If they have to know the details to that degree, then there’s no point in hiring them in the first place. They may as well go full tilt into pharmacology research and apply that same notion to diet and training info and prep themselves.

I err on the side of it being the coach’s fault because you have people writing something that is clearly resulting in deaths and recommending it anyway. The exposure of bad advice. After they type it out and look it over their reaction should be "I can’t send them this."

 

[maldorf]

I err on the side of it being the coach’s fault because you have people writing something that is clearly resulting in deaths and recommending it anyway. The exposure of bad advice. After they type it out and look it over their reaction should be "I can’t send them this."

I think it might be more like they copy and paste it into the email for the client.

 

[KillerStack]

Why is Ameen even in on this conversation? I’ve never liked that guy.

Leo Rex outed him as an active heroin addict, which Palumbo thought was bad form on Leo's part. Also scammed desperate heroin users for 3K for a $200 worth of ibogaine. But apart from that I'm just surprised anyone thinks he is knowledgeable, either anecdotally or scientifically. Even John Meadows consulted him on last minute prep for a contest but did some damage control later saying he just wanted a second opinion or whatever.

He seems to be proud of his 315 single deadlift. This is decades worth of juice and GH.

"The weight came with strength":

Instagram

www.instagram.com

 

[dantes]

Yes and we both take 100% of the blame. Let the buyer be ware. But being a top level competitive athlete in several different sports for most all of my life as well as working with top level athletes I realize that athletes are willing to do what ever it takes to accomplish their goals, many times ignoring common sense. This at times makes us a bit gullible as well as high risk takers all for the sake of winning. Ask yourself, why anyone would step under a squat rack with 1000lbs on a bar and attempt to squat the weight. That's not even sane. One thing goes wrong and your in the hospital all for a $2 trophy. If it weren't for the risk taking and gullibility of athletes to get that edge, the entire supplement industry would not exist. I can't count the number of $$ I have wasted on snake oil in the hopes of being a tiny bit stronger. Of course its buyer beware, but at some point in time the those that are pushing the snake oil need to be exposed. I probably should have come out years ago about this and at least one woman's live might not have been lost.

My wife went IFBB Pro in 1990, she was on some very heavy androgens but was being monitored by medical doctors. She trusted me that this "IFBB Pro" knew what he was talking about. I don't train my wife and certainly don't tell her what to take, how to train or how to diet. Winning the nationals and going pro tells me she has plenty of knowledge. She is also grown woman and not a child that has to be told what to do. If I was the you type guy who tells my wife what to do she would be out the front door long ago. At the time I worked 12 hour+ a day 7 days a week so I hardly knew what was happening in my own house. While we both take full blame, this type of shit has to stop. These so called GURUS need to be held to the same level of accountability as all other professional coaches/trainers of any other sport. While I am now retired I still work in the industry as a professor of kinesiology and would definitely be fired if I gave idiotic advice that is not supported by good conscience, ethics or even science. I had a kid get hurt in a our college gym doing something he was not taught to do and the amount of paperwork, administrative reviews and attorneys I had to deal with were ridiculous. But I had to show I was not negligent. Maybe our GURUS need to be held to the same standard?

As a long time coach, and well respected strength coach and nutritionist I take 100% responsibility for my advice and coaching. I have never had a athlete injured from my advice and coaching in the 25 years I worked. Had I given out advice that caused injury, I would 1. be fired, 2. could be held civilly liable. There are consequences for being irresponsible. 25 years of athletes I trained trusted me 100% with their safety, understanding that I was going to push them to the edge but not get them hurt. For me to be arrogant enough to cause the injury of an athlete and then sit back and say it's YOUR FAULT because you were stupid enough to follow my advice is ridiculous. Most professionals that work as coaches, the job involves yearly training and yearly certification to help avoid injury because in the end you are very definitely liable. As a football coach, if a kids spears another and gets a neck injury, in a law suit the coach will have to prove he taught proper tackling methods and has been certified to coach that skill. There will also be a professional review board who also asks these questions. Most personal trainers now have to provide both certification and liability insurance as well as a educational back ground in the area. Only because so many idiots prior were giving bad advice and the gym owner was getting sued. Maybe what needs to happen is a huge lawsuit needs to be filed and start holding these guys accountable for the cookie cutter training and supplementation plans they are selling. My wife thought she was getting a personalized plan only to find out he gives the same damn plan to everyone to this date. Even I was shock to the point of my mouth being open when I listened to a video earlier taking about this guy. Really, everyone gets the cut and paste job? Talk about fraud! Most all other coaches are held to this same strict standards and its time these so called GURUS are held accountable for what they do to. This is not every going to happen when those that get hurt just walk off and say I should have known better....it my fault.

I just listened to a scathing video by a pro level female BB who called this same coach out. When she told the protocol others were doing HOLY SHIT. it is exactly the same as what my wife did. And we paid lots of money for this cut and paste job? I knew this guy personally and felt I could trust him better that this. I honestly though it was common knowledge in this business that one size doesn't fit all because we are ALL individual and react differently. This guy never gave a shit about the long questionnaire he sent and the questions about health and drugs being used. He give everyone the same fucking plan. This is dishonest and personally I felt like someone I had done some favors for and trusted stabbed me in the wife. Had I known, I would have never put my wife in tough with this guy. So yea it a little personal but I have now disclosed his name. Its not just about 1 guy its about a trend that has happened over the past 15-20 years.

I am a bit taken a back that people are still defending Shelby when I assume this a first hand account of Shelby himself and why would bigtex lie? Also the video was a first hand account as that women herself used Shelby

 

[KillerStack]

The exposure of bad advice. After they type it out and look it over their reaction should be "I can’t send them this."

The reaction of Shelby was reportedly, "she didn't disclose her health issues." I think it was cancer as well as something else for the woman that died and kicked off this whole thing.

Milos was recently outed for dangerous advice but I think the athlete was unfair. He blamed Milos' 30-50iu of daily insulin for his cardiomyopathy but did not mention the several grams of test as a base as well as the dozen other compounds he took. To think the insulin specifically did that is ridiculous. Milos said he told the guy to cut his doses down to like 400mg EQ and 200mg of test every 4 days. Something like that, don't quote me, but it was LOW.

OTOH Milos has also said that if you want safe go do another sport, bodybuilding is extreme. Milos had several close calls himself, from thyroid, Synthol etc. He even did the plasma expanders Chad and Nasser said they were joking about.

 

[BigTex]

I think it might be more like they copy and paste it into the email for the client.

Thank you Maldorf......in our case this is exactly what happened. We still have the questionnaire, the email with the protocol. I emailed him and sent the cash, he emailed my wife, she emailed back the questionnaire, and boom, she gets a protocol. No questions were asked about the questionnaire, no discussions or concerns with any health issues going on. Just a fucking copy and paste job. Despite being told that ALL plans are personalized. Honestly because I thought I knew the guy pretty well, I too trusted him to do better than this. I saw 1st hand the plan was a disaster despite my wife being determined to make it work, and 8 years later I find out this is the same plan he gives to every women he trains, exactly. The same plan that has cause a few deaths. That is fucking BULLSHIT. It not personalized just a one size fits all copy and paste job. For the money we paid my wife should have gotten better than this. But I know better than to try getting a refund. I am just glad she too didn't die. Of all people I should have known better but my personal trust caused me to let my guard down. Another lesson learned. I love the fitness industry including sports and lord knows my whole life has been dedicated to it, but there are tons of charlatans and frauds out there stealing from gullible people. Thank GOD my wife never made it to the fucking silly ass, irresponsible diuretic protocol.

I probably would have never mentioned this again, but when I saw this video and hear the guy's name mentioned it all kind of came back and I got pissed off again. Like I said, this is a systemic problem in our industry and certainly not about 1 guy. This GURU is just part of a big problem that needs to be stopped.

 

[Elvia1023]

I am a bit taken a back that people are still defending Shelby when I assume this a first hand account of Shelby himself and why would bigtex lie? Also the video was a first hand account as that women herself used Shelby

It's crazy. Multiple women who don't know each other have come out and said this is exactly what I was given. People will stick up for him no matter what though and the guys who are acting like these protocols are nothing well I have no words.

Thank you Maldorf......in our case this is exactly what happened. We still have the questionnaire, the email with the protocol. I emailed him and sent the cash, he emailed my wife, she emailed back the questionnaire, and boom, she gets a protocol. No questions were asked about the questionnaire, no discussions or concerns with any health issues going on. Just a fucking copy and paste job. Despite being told that ALL plans are personalized. Honestly because I thought I knew the guy pretty well, I too trusted him to do better than this. I saw 1st hand the plan was a disaster despite my wife being determined to make it work, and 8 years later I find out this is the same plan he gives to every women he trains, exactly. The same plan that has cause a few deaths. That is fucking BULLSHIT. It not personalized just a one size fits all copy and paste job. For the money we paid my wife should have gotten better than this. But I know better than to try getting a refund. I am just glad she too didn't die. Of all people I should have known better but my personal trust caused me to let my guard down. Another lesson learned. I love the fitness industry including sports and lord knows my whole life has been dedicated to it, but there are tons of charlatans and frauds out there stealing from gullible people. Thank GOD my wife never made it to the fucking silly ass, irresponsible diuretic protocol.

I probably would have never mentioned this again, but when I saw this video and hear the guy's name mentioned it all kind of came back and I got pissed off again. Like I said, this is a systemic problem in out industry and certainly not about 1 guy. This GURU is just part of a big problem that needs to be stopped.

It's no wonder if the guy is training hundreds of people at the same time. Even if he stays at home and never goes out there is no way you can personalize 400 plans. A lot of these guys simply have an autoreply of upping drugs/fatburners and lowering calories no matter the feedback from the client. It will work but it will fuck up so many women and it's totally not needed. It's weird because many guys are stating it's the clients fault and Shelby can't be blamed but the same guys often post stuff like you hire a coach for a reason, so you don't have to think, for his expertise and you should simply listen to your coach and follow his advice and not question it. As I posted I see both sides but this is not good and it sounds like he fucked up many women to the point they stopped competing. If I had a wife/gf and she was given that protocol I certainly wouldn't be happy and I am sure the same guys defending him on here would be the same way.