Agree. When someone has been on gear for decades they can't remember what it's like being natural or what the limit is on natural. The ceiling is so much lower. All one needs to do is look at the average weights of competitors in natural competitions vs IFBB.All I see here is a whole lot of haters. Yes there are some genetically gifted guys who can be bigger naturally than those two. But most guys aren't looking any better than that naturally.
People always neglect the height factor as well. Helms is ~ six feet tall. If he was a fucken 5'6 midget or less everyone would be saying how great he is because he would look jacked as all hell.