Blood clotting

[emeric delczeg]

Emeric, do you also supplement with vitamin D to keep your 25-hydroxyvitamin D levels in a healthy range of 40-60ng/dl?

yes.

 

[emeric delczeg]

Should you take it with an empty stomach, with food, or it doesn't matter?

It dosen`t matter, I prefer it before food.

 

[emeric delczeg]

Blood clot

People that are taking deca, the risk of having blood clots are much higher.

 

[T TOTAL]

For all people on AAS, Nattokinase is not a blood thinner, so is OK to take it with coumadin, I take the NKS-SD version , becouse has no vitamin K.

It works good for me, it lowered my red blood cells and disolved all my clots.

Emeric, out of curiosity what do you mean by the highlighted bit above?? ie, whats the benefit of it then on AAS?

 

[Jmuls]

Emeric,

What about Curcumin? You feel it should be apart of one's supplement regimen when on AAS?

 

[MrCyp]

The usual dose 40.000 FU/gram per day 2 times 20.000 per day. You can take more, I take 120.000 FU/gram per day, I have factor 5 blood disorder.

You can take it with low dose of Aspirin, low dose of Aspirin cause a steady state inhibitation in platelet cyclooxygenase activity.

Look for Nattokinase NSK-SD.

Im sorry but what does this mean? 40.000FU/gram? What is this in mg. You recommend a certain brand? I see NOW carries it.

 

[emeric delczeg]

Emeric, out of curiosity what do you mean by the highlighted bit above?? ie, whats the benefit of it then on AAS?

It helps to reduce the risk of clot formation.

 

[emeric delczeg]

Im sorry but what does this mean? 40.000FU/gram? What is this in mg. You recommend a certain brand? I see NOW carries it.

FU is Fibrinolytic Units, is a measurment of activity of the action of the endogenous fibrinolytic plasmin. 50g of natto food has 1500 units of FU.

 

[DOGGCRAPP]

Very good recommendation by Emeric, Ive also researched Nattokinase to a great extent over the last year or so and there is nothing (outside of maybe serrapeptase and thats still a maybe) natural out there that actually breaks down blood clots outside of nattokinase....and alot of people confuse garlic, fish oils, aspirin, vitamin E etc etc in doing that but those just prevent platelet aggregation, not actually dissolve a blood clot....big difference......its truly an amazing compound in what its reported to do.

Research
Two human trials and 17 other studies have been done
on nattokinase. In a placebo-controlled study done by
Dr. Sumi in which dogs were induced to have blood
clots, oral administration of nattokinase (1 gm nattokinase
as four 250 mg capsules) resulted in angiograms
showing normal circulation and dissolution of the clot
within five hours of treatment. In contrast, blood clots
in the dogs receiving only a placebo did not show any
signs of dissolution during the 18 hours following treatment.4
Japanese researchers who studied nattokinase's ability
to dissolve a thrombus in the carotid arteries of rats
found that those given nattokinase regained 62% of
blood flow, whereas those treated with plasmin regained only 15.8%.5

Researchers from Oklahoma State University,Miyazaki Medical College and JCR Pharmaceuticals conducted a human study on 12 healthy volunteers (6 men and 6 women; ages 21-55 years). Before breakfast,each of the volunteers was given 200 grams of the food natto. Then, through a series of blood tests, the researchers tracked the fibrinolytic activity. On average, the volunteers' ELT (a measure of how long it takes to dissolve a blood clot) dropped by 48% within two hours of treatment. This heightened ability to dissolve blood clots was retained for 2 to 8 hours. In order to provide
a control for the study, the same amount of boiled soybeans
(non-fermented)was consumed by the volunteers. The same tests for fibrinolytic activity did not show any significant changes.6

In recent years, several clinical trials on animals and humans have confirmed this action. A Wister rat study demonstrated on average a 12.7% decline in systolic blood pressure within two hours of a single administration of test extract directly into the peritoneum of the rats. These same researchers also confirmed the presence of angiotensin converting enzyme (ACE) inhibitors within the test extract of natto.7 The same extract was then tested on hypertensive human volunteers who took 30 grams of the extract for four consecutive days. In four out of five volunteers, the systolic blood pressure dropped an average of 10.9% and the diastolic dropped 9.7%.7,8

******There is a case out there where someone was taking aspirin and nattokinase together after he suffered a stroke....and he ended up having a cerebral hemorrhage INTERNALMEDICINE : Vol. 47 (2008) , No. 5 pp.467-469

so there is some caution here based on that one event but the Japanese eat Natto in great abundance (a staple in their diet) and their incidence of heart disease and blood clots are so much better ratio wise than the USA its ridiculous. As Emeric said, the proper Nattokinase to use is the NSK version (as vitamin K is a clotting promoter)

Here are some alarming facts concerning bodybuilders and blood clots

1) We almost always have high hematocrit levels from various problems (oxygen deprivation-sleep apnea, iron overload from too much heme iron, red blood cell producing 'supplements'
2) We are among the most dehydrated athletes around especially with the fat burning and metabolic supplements we use (also include creatine and etc in that mix)
3) The estrogen like compounds that bodybuilders use (clomiphene, nolvadex) incredibly increase blood clot risk.
4) The Airhealth.org’s two year registry determined “about 85% of air travel blood clot (thrombosis) victims are athletic, usually endurance-type athletes" ...... yes thats 85% ..... why? lower heart rates from exercise. Via bodybuilders - add in higher hematocrit and red blood cell SIZE coupled with chronic dehydration = walking time bombs. Especially people (in my opinion) who use daily ephedrine are chronically dehydrated.

 

[MrCyp]

The usual dose 40.000 FU/gram per day 2 times 20.000 per day. You can take more, I take 120.000 FU/gram per day, I have factor 5 blood disorder.

You can take it with low dose of Aspirin, low dose of Aspirin cause a steady state inhibitation in platelet cyclooxygenase activity.

Look for Nattokinase NSK-SD.

Do you have to take it on an empty stomach? Now nutrition says you do
Bodybuilding.com - NOW Nattokinase - Promotes Circulatory Health! On sale now!

But this brand says you dont
NSI Nattokinase NSK-SD -- 90 Capsules - Vitacost

 

[emeric delczeg]

Do you have to take it on an empty stomach? Now nutrition says you do
Bodybuilding.com - NOW Nattokinase - Promotes Circulatory Health! On sale now!

But this brand says you dont
NSI Nattokinase NSK-SD -- 90 Capsules - Vitacost

I don`t think that Now`s Nattokinase is the NSK-SD version. Yes you can take it with or without food.

 

[MrCyp]

I don`t think that Now`s Nattokinase is the NSK-SD version. Yes you can take it with or without food.

Ohh ok, maybe I should go with the vitacost brand then. Its cheaper anyway. $24 for 90 caps.

 

[DOGGCRAPP]

[Effects of nCPAP therapy on the blood picture in ...[Pneumologie. 1995] - PubMed Result

 

[big-travis]

I am on coumadin(5mg per day) and I take the Nattokinase also.

I had my shoulder scoped and then two 8inch DVT's in that arm 2 day post surgery. They had me in the hospital for two weeks pumping heperin in me. Then put me on 6mg. of Warfarin everyday. Three weeks after the first surgery my biceps tore completely away where the bitch had screwed it in. Then had a second surgery. I stay nervous about getting another clot. After taking me off the warfarin I started taking goodies to the point that my palms would bruise. So this you post is good to know.

 

[MR. BMJ]

BUMP

Anybody else still using this?

Here's a nice study using both nattokinase + RYR for hyperlipidemia.


Asia Pac J Clin Nutr. 2009;18(3):310-7.

Combined nattokinase with red yeast rice but not nattokinase alone has potent effects on blood lipids in human subjects with hyperlipidemia.
Yang NC, Chou CW, Chen CY, Hwang KL, Yang YC.

Department of Nutrition and Health Science, Chungchou Institute of Technology, Changhua 510, Taiwan. [email protected].

Abstract
The purpose of this randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled, parallel comparison study was to evaluate the lipid-lowering effect of orally administrated nattokinase and nattokinase combined with red yeast rice (RYR) extract on blood lipids in patients with hyperlipidemia. A total of 47 patients with hyperlipidemia were assigned to one of three groups: 1. nattokinase-mono formula (50 mg/capsule), 2. combined formula of nattokinase with RYR (300 mg of extract/capsule) and 3. placebo. Subjects received a twice daily dose of two capsules for six months. The mono formula showed no effects on blood lipids until month six, while the combined formula ameliorated all of measured lipids starting from month one. In the combined group significant decreases were found with regard to: triglycerides (TG) by 15%, total cholesterol (TC) by 25%, low-density lipoprotein cholesterol (LDL-C) by 41%, TC/high-density lipoprotein cholesterol (HDL-C) ratio by 29.5%, and increases in HDL-C by 7.5%. These changes were sustained until the end of study. After controlling for baseline levels, only the combined group, but not mono group, showed a significant difference (p<0.0001) in TC, LDL-C and TC/HDL-C ratio when compared with the placebo group. In summary, this study provides long-term efficacy of nattokinase supplementation and shows that the combined formula has relatively more potent effects than the mono formula on lowering of blood lipids, suggesting that combined nattokinase with RYR will be a better neutraceutical for patients with hyperlipidemia than nattokinase alone.
PMID: 19786378 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]




BMJ

 

[RINO]

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[Elvia1023]

It's been a year and just wondering peoples thoughts on this now. Sounds very interesting. So is the general feeling to take it with aspirin or just have it alone. I will probably get some Nattokinase NSK-SD very soon. Is the trademark version simply without vit K or does it have other differences?

 

[hghanadrol1]

It's been a year and just wondering peoples thoughts on this now. Sounds very interesting. So is the general feeling to take it with aspirin or just have it alone. I will probably get some Nattokinase NSK-SD very soon. Is the trademark version simply without vit K or does it have other differences?

The NOW version doesn't have the -SD attached to the name, but it also doesn't have Vitamin K in it..I will probably be buyin the NOW version sometime this coming week.

 

[emeric delczeg]

It's been a year and just wondering peoples thoughts on this now. Sounds very interesting. So is the general feeling to take it with aspirin or just have it alone. I will probably get some Nattokinase NSK-SD very soon. Is the trademark version simply without vit K or does it have other differences?

Yes,you can take it with Aspirin, take enteric coated Aspirin.

 

[bigr244]

BP meds and Natto

Emeric-

Can someone take this if they are already using Linsopril and Inderal for BP?
Thanks