HGH Question

[rAJJIN]

No thank you. Im not going to get into the UG debate as i stated above only a few minutes ago. I have no interest in proving it one way or the other. Anyone who has worked in a real lab before will know how the different assays work and the folding of proteins influences activity. Im not going to give a seminar on that and quite honestly im surprised if this is the first time you are hearing about the 3D structure of peptides as I think you have been around for a while.

To the OP: When you get the IGF test done it will give you piece of mind that its at least binding to its receptor.

I have heard a Lot of the same few guys mention the 3d structure. I am surprised you do not have more information. I do not just take a guys word. I want it to make sense and try to understand the reasoning.

How are you so certain the brands we have and test, that serum test well are not folded correct? something must tell you that?

 

[muscle96ss]

No thank you. Im not going to get into the UG debate as i stated above only a few minutes ago. I have no interest in proving it one way or the other. Anyone who has worked in a real lab before will know how the different assays work and the folding of proteins influences activity. Im not going to give a seminar on that and quite honestly im surprised if this is the first time you are hearing about the 3D structure of peptides as I think you have been around for a while.

To the OP: When you get the IGF test done it will give you piece of mind that its at least binding to its receptor.

Most of us have heard this before. Unfortunately nobody has presented any evidence thus far in a clear concise manner where us normal people can understand. I think Raj is just frustrated(as I am too) of people discrediting the UG GH without providing any sort of detailed information proving what they say to be true. If you have that knowledge, and that knowledge would be extremely helpful to a large amount of people here; why would you withold it?

 

[concreteguy]

Concreteguy,
If you want to test another vial of another brand I have a few options for you.
I have 6finger red tops guys are scoring very high on rite now.
I have somastim 20iun vials that we have a lot of scores logged on it.
Also the Kefei you mentioned. You know I got a 35 on it. Same batch in the same shipment you have. I think a few others scored 30 and have posted using it.

For the IGF test this is how I was advised from one our best sponsors here.
14-21 days on a steady dose of the same amount. Not missing any days.
Igf-1 test is about 80$ bucks I think.

As for Insulin.. If that is how "You use it" and you plan on testing in the future for reference I would use it like you always do for each test so that you know what works the best for you. The feedback will help us all.

Your original question is a great one.
Lets use race and buck for example... If we know one Guys scores 10+ points higher then the other on most every brand.
So would the guy that scores less need to use more??? Who knows.
Or like guys said what if the Igf- is higher then the guy that serum test higher.

I guess we can only each try to learn and do our best. Let the mirror and the results decide the dose?

Maybe if it plays out like we hope we can get together as a group. Decide on what are currently the top few choices. Then do analyzing.

Raj, I'll do another test of any brand you guys need tested. I'm going to just do exactly the same protocol as before so I have an absolute over lay to compare.
BTW: I'm not to concerned about the draw time being postponed. The Quest that I went to let me delay the draw because I told them the Dr wanted it drawn three hours after injection. So they sat me down for twenty minutes.

Please contact me about testing when you decide what brand you want tested.

CG

 

[rAJJIN]

You tested the one I wanted CG.
The others I mention are just here and available if you want for your peace of mind my Friend.
That test is more then most will ever contribute. It is appreciated.

 

[concreteguy]

Fair enough then, If you ever need a volunteer again, please hit me up. I've been on board here for a while and always willing to help out.

CG

 

[gotgame]

I have heard a Lot of the same few guys mention the 3d structure. I am surprised you do not have more information. I do not just take a guys word. I want it to make sense and try to understand the reasoning.

How are you so certain the brands we have and test, that serum test well are not folded correct? something must tell you that?

I have NO idea if they ones you are tested are folded correctly. Thats why i said before I dont know if they are quality but in the PAST things havent always been so you should get an IGF test for piece of mind. I certainly do not run a GH lab in my spare time outside of the hospital lol. What i can tell you is this. In the past GH has been tested by some frustrated people on private boards. It was probably back in 2008-2009 as I took a leave from the boards shortly after that. I dont have the results from that as i never had the inclination to have to prove how the 3D folding was important. Its really a given that how its folded makes a huge difference.

Again, im not sure how any of my posts can be taken the wrong way like I have some GH agenda but I do understand that the GH market is a sensitive topic. I taught a grad biochem course 5 years ago where i gave them articles on the pharm R and D process and how things get screwed up. One of them was in the folding. I think I was trying to relate it to prions or something. I no longer have that EDU account but ill see if i can find one later that might help as a general understanding on how its more then just sequence.

 

[gotgame]

Most of us have heard this before. Unfortunately nobody has presented any evidence thus far in a clear concise manner where us normal people can understand. I think Raj is just frustrated(as I am too) of people discrediting the UG GH without providing any sort of detailed information proving what they say to be true. If you have that knowledge, and that knowledge would be extremely helpful to a large amount of people here; why would you withold it?

Not intentionally withholding anything. Its just part of the manufactoring process. Major pharm has screwed it up before with other drugs and it happens. And again, i thought i was clear but ill say it again. I am not here to debated the UG GH market nor am i trying to discredit any one brand. In the past it had been tested and turned out to be folded wrong. It wasnt a huge deal its not like I saw that and was like " ohhhh let me save this post on this private forum and keep it so people believe me". Its really pretty standard that things like that can go wrong as it happens and wasnt some huge revelation. Honestly its hard to test for and unless you work in a univ lab theres no real way to test for that, that is why i simply recommened getting an IGF test done. Not that expensive and an easy way to see if its working.

 

[rAJJIN]

Can you remember the test that showed and that brand that was folded wrong?

To say such a thing is a pretty big deal. You used for example having a BMW that will not start. Basically saying there bogus and not working.

Something must have really stuck for you to remember that all these years and to express concern here in this thread.

I have been around a while.
Maybe you could share in private what "private forum"
What brands were tested and by who. Or whatever it was you seen so convincing to say
If not pharma it's bogus

 

[muscle96ss]

Not intentionally withholding anything. Its just part of the manufactoring process. Major pharm has screwed it up before with other drugs and it happens. And again, i thought i was clear but ill say it again. I am not here to debated the UG GH market nor am i trying to discredit any one brand. In the past it had been tested and turned out to be folded wrong. It wasnt a huge deal its not like I saw that and was like " ohhhh let me save this post on this private forum and keep it so people believe me". Its really pretty standard that things like that can go wrong as it happens and wasnt some huge revelation. Honestly its hard to test for and unless you work in a univ lab theres no real way to test for that, that is why i simply recommened getting an IGF test done. Not that expensive and an easy way to see if its working.

What would one need in order to determine if it is folded wrong? In other words, if I am taking several iu's daily and notice a significant increase in IGF-1, would that be sufficient to assume that it is folded correctly? Or in one of the lab tests for the grey tops, I believe they did a SDS-page, BCA, and HPLC(or MS i forget) and it showed to be GH that is 96-97% pure and slightly greater than 10iu per vial. Would that be confirmation that it is folded correctly? Or what specifically is needed to assess this information? In the HGH Testing thread we are considering doing actual lab tests and it would be nice to know this information so that we can do things correctly.

 

[kinglewy]

Can you elaborate on this? There's a possibility, outside an individuals ability to convert gh to IGF-1, that a high GH serum might not result in raised IGF-1?

I had a test recently on a sponsors generics that tested good in serum but my IGF-1 was 130 on 10iu/day.

I am by no means an expert on gh/igf like alot of these guys but have suspected that the outfits behind the generic gh game (wont name nationalities as to not offend anyone) may have figured out a way to get an elevated gh serum result without the product significantly boosting igf levels. I dont put anything past organized criminal groups.

***I want to make it clear I have no proof of this whatsoever and the notion is merely speculation***

 

[gotgame]

Can you remember the test that showed and that brand that was folded wrong?

To say such a thing is a pretty big deal. You used for example having a BMW that will not start. Basically saying there bogus and not working.

Something must have really stuck for you to remember that all these years and to express concern here in this thread.

I have been around a while.
Maybe you could share in private what "private forum"
What brands were tested and by who. Or whatever it was you seen so convincing to say
If not pharma it's bogus

Did anything I say above reflect that? Pretty sure I made a point of saying multiple times for clarification.

It was an NMR. I remember that because in undergrad i did a lot of work with it so i commented on the process a bit. The person who did the test was an MD who took some time to get his Phd before going back to do his 4th year. I dont know who he was in real life but I remember him making multiple comments about NMR which made me believe he was legit. Did he have a motive i have no clue, but the context was such that peoples IGF levels werent being elevated from some GH. He has access to test it so he did.

I dont recall what brands were tested and I dont even know what brands are out there today. I dont take GH as I have dysplastic nevi with are IGF dependent so i really am just a bystander in all of this. Im just commenting on the testing process and NO before anyone PMs me i dont test stuff.

It did stick with me just as the test that was done years ago showing many heavy metals in the UG products from the column elutions. I dont have that test results of the heavy metals either but again its a common occurance with all meds so it wasnt unheard of. I ( well actually the techs do it) have to test that daily for things like radiochemical and radionuclide purity as its just part of an aging column and isnt a big deal but needs to be tested for. Now im getting off topic.

 

[gotgame]

What would one need in order to determine if it is folded wrong? In other words, if I am taking several iu's daily and notice a significant increase in IGF-1, would that be sufficient to assume that it is folded correctly? Or in one of the lab tests for the grey tops, I believe they did a SDS-page, BCA, and HPLC(or MS i forget) and it showed to be GH that is 96-97% pure and slightly greater than 10iu per vial. Would that be confirmation that it is folded correctly? Or what specifically is needed to assess this information? In the HGH Testing thread we are considering doing actual lab tests and it would be nice to know this information so that we can do things correctly.

None of those show folding structure. Those all show sequence. I honestly dont know if a misfolded GH protein moves differently in the SDS page ( id assume not based on weight) so i cant comment on that one.

what you need is pretty much an MRI ( NMR). you need to align it down a magnet and hit it with multiple RF pulses and watch for the spin-spin and spin lattice interactions in order to map it out. Theres no place you are going to send it to that will do it that probably why not many people have seen it before. It has to be done in a univ setting. Have other people been just echoing what they have heard from other i really dont know.

 

[muscle96ss]

None of those show folding structure. Those all show sequence. I honestly dont know if a misfolded GH protein moves differently in the SDS page ( id assume not based on weight) so i cant comment on that one.

what you need is pretty much an MRI ( NMR). you need to align it down a magnet and hit it with multiple RF pulses and watch for the spin-spin and spin lattice interactions in order to map it out. Theres no place you are going to send it to that will do it that probably why not many people have seen it before. It has to be done in a univ setting. Have other people been just echoing what they have heard from other i really dont know.

Thank you for the information. It sounds like verifying the 3D structure is something that is not going to be inexpensive or easy to accomplish. One more question, would it be safe to assume that if the GH is not of the correct 3D structure then it would not be biologically active and would not raise IGF-1 levels as real GH would?

 

[concreteguy]

I read Race and Buck and so many other members that really know what's going on and then this?
This guy GOTGAME seams to be on another level. Dr, scientist or something. But after this TRINITYD, who the hell knows who's telling the truth and who has it figured out?
GOTGAME, I hope you contact RAJ and can prove who you are and your credentials. This community has been jerked off way to many times to just except you as an expert with out proving your credentials. This is so important to all of us. Cut us all a huge brake and just make the contact with Raj or go away. I get the feeling you have the ability to do huge amounts of mind fucking that could cost a bunch of honest sponsors money. If you are as bright in this area of knowledge as you appear, BRING IT TO THE TABLE. All this is about is "DISCOVERY". That seams to be what you do for a living.
Hope to hear much more from you after Raj confirms you.

CG

 

[gotgame]

Thank you for the information. It sounds like verifying the 3D structure is something that is not going to be inexpensive or easy to accomplish. One more question, would it be safe to assume that if the GH is not of the correct 3D structure then it would not be biologically active and would not raise IGF-1 levels as real GH would?

I dont know exactly which parts of the GH molecule does what. You will ofcourse have a sequence that binds directly however other aspects of it will probably also influence its activity. When it comes to peptide sequences sometimes you could have a completely screwed up part but it doesnt make much difference, at least not that we can appreciate. Keeping with my car analogy from before, you could put a huge dent in the side door but the car is still gonna get you from point A to point B, but if you screw up the tires then your not doing anywhere, or the engine..many things come together ot make it work. Its well beyond my scope of knowing which parts do what when it comes to GH folding.

 

[Racepicks]

I read Race and Buck and so many other members that really know what's going on and then this?
This guy GOTGAME seams to be on another level. Dr, scientist or something. But after this TRINITYD, who the hell knows who's telling the truth and who has it figured out?
GOTGAME, I hope you contact RAJ and can prove who you are and your credentials. This community has been jerked off way to many times to just except you as an expert with out proving your credentials. This is so important to all of us. Cut us all a huge brake and just make the contact with Raj or go away. I get the feeling you have the ability to do huge amounts of mind fucking that could cost a bunch of honest sponsors money. If you are as bright in this area of knowledge as you appear, BRING IT TO THE TABLE. All this is about is "DISCOVERY". That seams to be what you do for a living.
Hope to hear much more from you after Raj confirms you.

CG

You know, this is the third or fourth time I have seen these "Dr. scientist" members talking about the folded protein theory, then when asked for more information they fail to provide. I'm not saying it is untrue, in fact, I believe they may be correct. It's just that I want to learn more about it. If you do not want to educate the masses, then just go away. I'm just tired of the condescending attitudes of these "Dr. scientists".

 

[gotgame]

I read Race and Buck and so many other members that really know what's going on and then this?
This guy GOTGAME seams to be on another level. Dr, scientist or something. But after this TRINITYD, who the hell knows who's telling the truth and who has it figured out?
GOTGAME, I hope you contact RAJ and can prove who you are and your credentials. This community has been jerked off way to many times to just except you as an expert with out proving your credentials. This is so important to all of us. Cut us all a huge brake and just make the contact with Raj or go away. I get the feeling you have the ability to do huge amounts of mind fucking that could cost a bunch of honest sponsors money. If you are as bright in this area of knowledge as you appear, BRING IT TO THE TABLE. All this is about is "DISCOVERY". That seams to be what you do for a living.
Hope to hear much more from you after Raj confirms you.

CG

Or go away? Really? Take a look at my posts form previous threads. Does it look like im trying to fuck anyone over or do i take time out of my day to try to help people with liver cancer, spine surgery and interpret labs for people. I will be happy to go away, in fact the only reason im here is because i was asked specifically to come over here to comment on a thread about what you should or shouldnt tell your physician. I saw a lot of misinformation and I thought I would help out. I dont give a crap about sponsors or money or any of that. Ive been lifting for 20 years and i related with many guys who live this lifestyle and I want to try to help people be healthy. Im not expert on NMR but ive done it before while i was in undergrad and Im trying to help out. A few people on here know my credentials and given the nature of this board I keep a low profile as I dont have my CV linked in a signature.

I dont know Raj so im not going to just start giving out my personal information on a board like this. Take a look at my posts, the information is not copy paste from google and i try not to be biased.

I am done with this thread so dont expect me to comment further.

 

[concreteguy]

Or go away? Really? Take a look at my posts form previous threads. Does it look like im trying to fuck anyone over or do i take time out of my day to try to help people with liver cancer, spine surgery and interpret labs for people. I will be happy to go away, in fact the only reason im here is because i was asked specifically to come over here to comment on a thread about what you should or shouldnt tell your physician. I saw a lot of misinformation and I thought I would help out. I dont give a crap about sponsors or money or any of that. Ive been lifting for 20 years and i related with many guys who live this lifestyle and I want to try to help people be healthy. Im not expert on NMR but ive done it before while i was in undergrad and Im trying to help out. A few people on here know my credentials and given the nature of this board I keep a low profile as I dont have my CV linked in a signature.

I dont know Raj so im not going to just start giving out my personal information on a board like this. Take a look at my posts, the information is not copy paste from google and i try not to be biased.

I am done with this thread so dont expect me to comment further.

Should I have put smile faces after each sentence? You took me wrong. When I said "go away", I meant confirm who you are or don't stir the pot.
What your saying makes sense to even me.<---a virtual dummy in HGH. But again, experts have to have an identity.
If your helping others in this forum I commend you for it. Please don't stop!
I.M.O you have no idea how electric these conversations can get. I just didn't want the lid to blow off again. I don't understand why you have a problem confiding in a mod about who you are if there is no issues? That in and of it's self doesn't shine well. And thank you for your advise!

John Fitzpatrick

 

[Queefer]

Or go away? Really? Take a look at my posts form previous threads. Does it look like im trying to fuck anyone over or do i take time out of my day to try to help people with liver cancer, spine surgery and interpret labs for people. I will be happy to go away, in fact the only reason im here is because i was asked specifically to come over here to comment on a thread about what you should or shouldnt tell your physician. I saw a lot of misinformation and I thought I would help out. I dont give a crap about sponsors or money or any of that. Ive been lifting for 20 years and i related with many guys who live this lifestyle and I want to try to help people be healthy. Im not expert on NMR but ive done it before while i was in undergrad and Im trying to help out. A few people on here know my credentials and given the nature of this board I keep a low profile as I dont have my CV linked in a signature.

I dont know Raj so im not going to just start giving out my personal information on a board like this. Take a look at my posts, the information is not copy paste from google and i try not to be biased.

I am done with this thread so dont expect me to comment further.

You took CG wrong.....we have tons of so called gurus on here that pop up out of nowhere....we are skeptical ...dont let it bother you....spit out some more knowledge...you seem like you know what you are talking about.

 

[HimRoid]

Thank you for the information. It sounds like verifying the 3D structure is something that is not going to be inexpensive or easy to accomplish. One more question, would it be safe to assume that if the GH is not of the correct 3D structure then it would not be biologically active and would not raise IGF-1 levels as real GH would?

This is confusing to me as well. My friend with a chemistry degree who works for a drug company said the 3-D structure of HGH is crucial to actually creating muscle growth in the body, kind of like a 3-D key that must fit perfectly into a lock. But, if your Igf1 increases from the generic HGH you are using then muscle will grow since it's the igf1 levels that are primarily responsible for muscle mass and fat loss. I remember guys posting igf1 scores a few years ago on riptropin and it was getting scores in the 600's. I believe Mike Arnold once said he got igf1 of 1200 from running 20ius of riptropin per day. If you read this Mike, did I get it right?