Stewie or emeric, blood work has me a little nervous

[DK0223]

I think what he is trying to say is that once you suppress your system like that there is a good chance you will never be the same. You can do all the PCT you want but some people just don't ever recover and require lifetime TRT.

Well understandable

I knew the risks, just assumed it wouldn't happen to me. I'm not jumping ship yet, gonna see what my primary physician says first

 

[Bio]

'stang did you ever do any type of PCT once you stopped? You could use test again...Low test has really some bad side effects...I'm sure you'll feel a lot better however you decide to increase it.

 

[raw33man]

Jump on TRT man.... Cycling is waste of time

 

[gotgame]

I'm only 26 so do not want to do TRT unless absolutely necessary

This is the first time I've did a cycle, stopped cold turkey and ran nolva/clomid, then stayed off for 7-8 months before getting a blood test done

There is a good chance you wont need TRT. When you see your PMD they will get and LH FSH and maybe prolactin. Post those labs up when you get it.

Hopefully your PMD knows a thing or two about the HPTA but dont hold your breathe. They will probably refer you to an endo.

I always recommend going through your physician for this sort of stuff but for various reason not ever one does/cant.

Your endo might consider something like the following

HCG 2500-5000iu's 3x a week for 2-3 months ( some may do a little less but current revised protocols do recommend this range. This was from the last time i checked uptodate). Personally I would only do that range if fertility was my primary concern. In your situation id do 500-1000 3x a week for 8 weeks

Aromasin 12.5mg QD. Yes i know your E2 levels are probably low already but this will help prevent feedback as your levels go up. Do not bother with any other AI's. Anastozole shouldnt be used for anything and letro while technically will work better with plenty of studies to back it up is just too strong for many and I would advice against it.

Clomid 50mg QD x 4 weeks and then 25mg QD for 8 weeks. It can take a LONG time to get things going again and far too many people run PCT too short based on random protocols from EF circa 2000-2002. We have a lot of blood work since then that we shouldnt be blindly following things we now know to be suboptimal.

Some people recommend a leupralide/gnrh protocol but i wouldnt mess with that unless this fails.


After stopping the clomid at week 12 keep running the aromasin for another 4 weeks. I would then drop the aromasin and get retested.

Hopefully the endo will be open to having a discussion about this type of approach.

 

[LK3]

I'm only 26 so do not want to do TRT unless absolutely necessary

This is the first time I've did a cycle, stopped cold turkey and ran nolva/clomid, then stayed off for 7-8 months before getting a blood test done

I have posted protocols repeatedly to bring up natty production.

just search.

that said...

if you aren't willing to do it for life don't do it one time. its that simple.

not sure why you think you deserve such special attention in this matter, you have been around for a while and well this post and others sort of speak for themselves, this is what I expect when people dont really respect the process and DO it right, not talk about what may or may not be right...

not being a dick, its just how it is.

 

[DK0223]

'stang did you ever do any type of PCT once you stopped? You could use test again...Low test has really some bad side effects...I'm sure you'll feel a lot better however you decide to increase it.

Yes did the nolva/clomid approach and ran my ai for a few weeks after

Jump on TRT man.... Cycling is waste of time

Right but I'd rather not have to at 26....

There is a good chance you wont need TRT. When you see your PMD they will get and LH FSH and maybe prolactin. Post those labs up when you get it.

Hopefully your PMD knows a thing or two about the HPTA but dont hold your breathe. They will probably refer you to an endo.

I always recommend going through your physician for this sort of stuff but for various reason not ever one does/cant.

Your endo might consider something like the following

HCG 2500-5000iu's 3x a week for 2-3 months ( some may do a little less but current revised protocols do recommend this range. This was from the last time i checked uptodate). Personally I would only do that range if fertility was my primary concern. In your situation id do 500-1000 3x a week for 8 weeks

Aromasin 12.5mg QD. Yes i know your E2 levels are probably low already but this will help prevent feedback as your levels go up. Do not bother with any other AI's. Anastozole shouldnt be used for anything and letro while technically will work better with plenty of studies to back it up is just too strong for many and I would advice against it.

Clomid 50mg QD x 4 weeks and then 25mg QD for 8 weeks. It can take a LONG time to get things going again and far too many people run PCT too short based on random protocols from EF circa 2000-2002. We have a lot of blood work since then that we shouldnt be blindly following things we now know to be suboptimal.

Some people recommend a leupralide/gnrh protocol but i wouldnt mess with that unless this fails.


After stopping the clomid at week 12 keep running the aromasin for another 4 weeks. I would then drop the aromasin and get retested.

Hopefully the endo will be open to having a discussion about this type of approach.

Yea if he shows me he doesn't know what's going on, I'll bring up going to an endo

I have posted protocols repeatedly to bring up natty production.

just search.

that said...

if you aren't willing to do it for life don't do it one time. its that simple.

not sure why you think you deserve such special attention in this matter, you have been around for a while and well this post and others sort of speak for themselves, this is what I expect when people dont really respect the process and DO it right, not talk about what may or may not be right...

not being a dick, its just how it is.

Never said I deserve special attention. Just a little freaked out at the moment

 

[DK0223]

Anyone else?

 

[kinglewy]

Why not just get you a big jug of cyp or enanthate and administer your own trt?

I have tried two endo's and both were complete idiots and a waste of time...the one even said "wow you know more about this stuff than I do" lol. Not sure what area of the country your from probably in California or Florida where bodybuilding culture is bigger it's different but from talking to docs and endos both I have realised that the average bodybuilder who does his research and studies knows more about how to treat himself than a doctor.

 

[milesanderson37]

Maybe try D-Aspartic acid? Doesn't require any pinning and you can buy it off of any supplement website.

 

[Massive G]

There is a good chance you wont need TRT. When you see your PMD they will get and LH FSH and maybe prolactin. Post those labs up when you get it.

Hopefully your PMD knows a thing or two about the HPTA but dont hold your breathe. They will probably refer you to an endo.

I always recommend going through your physician for this sort of stuff but for various reason not ever one does/cant.

Your endo might consider something like the following

HCG 2500-5000iu's 3x a week for 2-3 months ( some may do a little less but current revised protocols do recommend this range. This was from the last time i checked uptodate). Personally I would only do that range if fertility was my primary concern. In your situation id do 500-1000 3x a week for 8 weeks

Aromasin 12.5mg QD. Yes i know your E2 levels are probably low already but this will help prevent feedback as your levels go up. Do not bother with any other AI's. Anastozole shouldnt be used for anything and letro while technically will work better with plenty of studies to back it up is just too strong for many and I would advice against it.

Clomid 50mg QD x 4 weeks and then 25mg QD for 8 weeks. It can take a LONG time to get things going again and far too many people run PCT too short based on random protocols from EF circa 2000-2002. We have a lot of blood work since then that we shouldnt be blindly following things we now know to be suboptimal.

Some people recommend a leupralide/gnrh protocol but i wouldnt mess with that unless this fails.


After stopping the clomid at week 12 keep running the aromasin for another 4 weeks. I would then drop the aromasin and get retested.

Hopefully the endo will be open to having a discussion about this type of approach.

^^^
Best post on here.

If you are done with cycling for good, then it's time to seek professional help
.
I wouldn't start TRT at 26, especially if you want to have kids and lead a normal life.

Self medicating more things like some of the advice you'll get on here with clomid, nolva, HCG, HMG, etc for example will not get you back to normal range.

I gassed heavily for years, and then took a year off (to get hemo and other critical blood values in check)with lo dose GH and insulin to retain mass. My testosterone levels came back to the mid 500's after a year off.

Try a healthy diet, zinc, vitamin D, natural vitamin E, fish oils etc- worse comes to worse you can try D-aspartic acid for now but I have found with guys that quit for good their natural test levels will eventually come back.

One of my first board friends was a huge guy that really jacked himself up for YEARS on heavy doses and never came off, we used to tease him about PCT (this was the late 1990's when PCT was the "fix" etc) and kids and all and he laughed it off saying he didn't want kids etc.

He fell off the boards for a few years and we lost touch.

We connected in the early 2000's and he was happily married with 3 healthy kids. They went to a fertility doc and found that he was ok, his wife needed help though, and the rest was history. We now joke about the kids all the time, and he is one of the happiest people I know.

Remember it's your life and you can't really fix things with self medicated black market medicines for the most part.

If you have stopped for good - you will eventually recover. When I stopped for a year, my test levels were 158ng/dl and a year later they were in the mid 500's.

Unfortunately for me I went back on, and have eventually settled on HRT since I am technically at the age for andropause and my kiddie days are over unless I meet a 25 -30 year old girl that turns serious and wants kids.
the I will seek help from an endo/fertility doc.

Again good for you if you really have decided to put the artificial hormones to rest - you now have your life back.

 

[mad mardigan]

I agree with the above posters, a high dose (somewhat) cycle for 6 months could make a full recovery extremely difficult for some people.

You may have to try some new tactics, aggressively, and keep at it for quite a while to see improvements. And there are no guarantees. That being said, many people do recover to some degree if they are willing to put in the time and effort, imo. The hpta is a complex beast for sure.

 

[Flex500]

There are already enough posts giving you good advice but I'd bet my 401K you were excessively low already. I mean on 75mgs if test you only had test levels in the 200's??

Also to be off that long and its only 52 I'd really bet you were already way low.

 

[DK0223]

Why not just get you a big jug of cyp or enanthate and administer your own trt?

I have tried two endo's and both were complete idiots and a waste of time...the one even said "wow you know more about this stuff than I do" lol. Not sure what area of the country your from probably in California or Florida where bodybuilding culture is bigger it's different but from talking to docs and endos both I have realised that the average bodybuilder who does his research and studies knows more about how to treat himself than a doctor.

Eh I'd feel better letting a professional advise me, rather than shooting in the dark trying to do it myself

Maybe try D-Aspartic acid? Doesn't require any pinning and you can buy it off of any supplement website.

That crossed my mind, something I will surely consider

^^^
Best post on here.

If you are done with cycling for good, then it's time to seek professional help
.
I wouldn't start TRT at 26, especially if you want to have kids and lead a normal life.

Self medicating more things like some of the advice you'll get on here with clomid, nolva, HCG, HMG, etc for example will not get you back to normal range.

I gassed heavily for years, and then took a year off (to get hemo and other critical blood values in check)with lo dose GH and insulin to retain mass. My testosterone levels came back to the mid 500's after a year off.

Try a healthy diet, zinc, vitamin D, natural vitamin E, fish oils etc- worse comes to worse you can try D-aspartic acid for now but I have found with guys that quit for good their natural test levels will eventually come back.

One of my first board friends was a huge guy that really jacked himself up for YEARS on heavy doses and never came off, we used to tease him about PCT (this was the late 1990's when PCT was the "fix" etc) and kids and all and he laughed it off saying he didn't want kids etc.

He fell off the boards for a few years and we lost touch.

We connected in the early 2000's and he was happily married with 3 healthy kids. They went to a fertility doc and found that he was ok, his wife needed help though, and the rest was history. We now joke about the kids all the time, and he is one of the happiest people I know.

Remember it's your life and you can't really fix things with self medicated black market medicines for the most part.

If you have stopped for good - you will eventually recover. When I stopped for a year, my test levels were 158ng/dl and a year later they were in the mid 500's.

Unfortunately for me I went back on, and have eventually settled on HRT since I am technically at the age for andropause and my kiddie days are over unless I meet a 25 -30 year old girl that turns serious and wants kids.
the I will seek help from an endo/fertility doc.

Again good for you if you really have decided to put the artificial hormones to rest - you now have your life back.

Well I do plan to cycle again, but first I gotta get this taken care of.

There are already enough posts giving you good advice but I'd bet my 401K you were excessively low already. I mean on 75mgs if test you only had test levels in the 200's??

Also to be off that long and its only 52 I'd really bet you were already way low.

This is a great point, makes sense for sure. So maybe in fact I do need TRT....

 

[gotgame]

Eh I'd feel better letting a professional advise me, rather than shooting in the dark trying to do it myself

That crossed my mind, something I will surely consider

Well I do plan to cycle again, but first I gotta get this taken care of.


This is a great point, makes sense for sure. So maybe in fact I do need TRT....

Was the 75mg from the pharmacy or UG? Labs were also taken 8 days post so its quite possible that ranges during a 1 week period could have been mid 400's to mid 200's. His free levels were 56. Im assuming that a ng/dl scale so thats almost double normal which is great and might mean his SHBG is low which might be beneficial. I wouldnt jump on saying the TRT bandwagon just yet, there are many downsides to it and your young so its not something you want to do unless you dont have other options.

Let us know how your endo appt goes

 

[muscle96ss]

Eh I'd feel better letting a professional advise me, rather than shooting in the dark trying to do it myself

That crossed my mind, something I will surely consider

Well I do plan to cycle again, but first I gotta get this taken care of.


This is a great point, makes sense for sure. So maybe in fact I do need TRT....

Whats the point if you are going to cycle again? I mean you are just going to shut yourself down and go through the same process if not worse each time. Why not just do low level test(HRT) in between your cycles?

 

[DK0223]

Was the 75mg from the pharmacy or UG? Labs were also taken 8 days post so its quite possible that ranges during a 1 week period could have been mid 400's to mid 200's. His free levels were 56. Im assuming that a ng/dl scale so thats almost double normal which is great and might mean his SHBG is low which might be beneficial. I wouldnt jump on saying the TRT bandwagon just yet, there are many downsides to it and your young so its not something you want to do unless you dont have other options.

Let us know how your endo appt goes

Was UG brotha. I see my primary physician, don't have an appt set with an endo. Gonna see what my doc says first

 

[DK0223]

Whats the point if you are going to cycle again? I mean you are just going to shut yourself down and go through the same process if not worse each time. Why not just do low level test(HRT) in between your cycles?

Just would rather not have to rely on TRT this young

 

[bgspin]

I think what he is trying to say is that once you suppress your system like that there is a good chance you will never be the same. You can do all the PCT you want but some people just don't ever recover and require lifetime TRT.

Yep. Anything over 14-16 wks is going to be tough for anyone to recover from. Just amazes me people get on and run for months on end and not know this?

To the OP this is the best PCT I have ran.
Triptorelin 100mcg day 1 PCT
toremifine 100/100/50/50
clomid 100/100/50/50

Was on 16 weeks and recovered to 689 test level(was 707 before i ever cycled)

I have cycled on and off for 10 years.When my levels don't bounce back one day i will look into TRT. I'm just glad I never put myself in the position in my 20's to be looking at Hormone replacement so soon. I feel for you. Hopefully you recover.

 

[DK0223]

Yep. Anything over 14-16 wks is going to be tough for anyone to recover from. Just amazes me people get on and run for months on end and not know this?

To the OP this is the best PCT I have ran.
Triptorelin 100mcg day 1 PCT
toremifine 100/100/50/50
clomid 100/100/50/50

Was on 16 weeks and recovered to 689 test level(was 707 before i ever cycled)

I have cycled on and off for 10 years.When my levels don't bounce back one day i will look into TRT. I'm just glad I never put myself in the position in my 20's to be looking at Hormone replacement so soon. I feel for you. Hopefully you recover.

Hey bro thanks for chiming in. Yea I'd like to see if I can bounce back, and would rather cycle, than be on TRT right now in my life

 

[TT]

Hey stang,

Your numbers are way lower than mine were when I was in the same PCT time frame. And I was 31 when I came off. I truly tried to recover my natural test for 2 years but it was unsuccessful. My numbers always seem to hover around 300. One time I had more but I think it was a lab error. I am 33 now and decided to join TRT club. (it was instant decision when I broke my foot) Feel really good now.

I tried different PCT methods but it was all temporary. PCT would drive up my numbers high but after 3-4 months clean it would drop back down.

Talk with your doctor about your issue. If you are unsuccessful in 6-12 months I wouldn't bother with recovering any more and go straight on TRT.

Good luck,

TT