Nandrolone Damaging to Blood Vessels(Your thoughts?)

[TrinityD]

I'm sure everybody's seen this "medical study" that showed Deca is at least 10x more damaging to the blood vessels than testosterone.

What do you all believe of this proposed fact/idea?

Do you believe it's true, or was this experiment conducted incorrectly(for example: not on humans)? Do you believe it's something to worry about? Look at how many people from 70s/80s and even now take tons of Deca and are OK.

Input is appreciated.

 

[Medic08]

Emeric posted up a study last year on this very topic. It's a proven study and is hard on the cardiovascular system. Ill try and find the thread for you.

 

[Knight9]

Emeric posted up a study last year on this very topic. It's a proven study and is hard on the cardiovascular system. Ill try and find the thread for you.

I've posted this as well. This is why you should only use NPP.

 

[Medic08]

This is the thread I was referring to. It's lengthy, but everything that you want to know about Nadrolone Deca is in this thread. It's starts with why he thinks Deca isn't as good as test, but the discussions cover a lot of info.

http://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/professional-muscle-forum/39887-why-i-think.html

 

[TrinityD]

Alright cool, so you guys do believe for sure that Deca is very damaging to the cardiovascular system and arteries? I read through the thread, I have to say, I'm a little on the edge about some of the stuff I'm reading here.

I mean we have people like BIG A and several of my IRL IFBB Pro friends that lay out the truth of what real cycles look like....and then this guy is talking about taking 300 test a week, or 200 tren a week.

Idk, kind of odd.Also,he said he would go into more detail about the Deca topic, but the thread never actually got around to doing it. I don't see anything conclusive here. Is this just the opinion of one ifbb pro?

 

[Knight9]

Alright cool, so you guys do believe for sure that Deca is very damaging to the cardiovascular system and arteries? I read through the thread, I have to say, I'm a little on the edge about some of the stuff I'm reading here.

I mean we have people like BIG A and several of my IRL IFBB Pro friends that lay out the truth of what real cycles look like....and then this guy is talking about taking 300 test a week, or 200 tren a week.

Idk, kind of odd.

If you want to give being a pro or high level competitor, I suggest you listen to Big A and others with similar philosophies and not Emeric. Emeric's methods are more likely to keep you healthy.

 

[Medic08]

Alright cool, so you guys do believe for sure that Deca is very damaging to the cardiovascular system and arteries? I read through the thread, I have to say, I'm a little on the edge about some of the stuff I'm reading here.

I mean we have people like BIG A and several of my IRL IFBB Pro friends that lay out the truth of what real cycles look like....and then this guy is talking about taking 300 test a week, or 200 tren a week.

Idk, kind of odd.

Yes, I believe it. Kind of hard to argue with science, ya know? Steroids are just one of those things that cause long term damage, rather than instant damage.

Emeric is an IFBB pro so I would listen to him. He's very knowledgable and has a wealth of experience. He is very conservative with his drug use, but his methods have been proven to work via blood tests. He goes against most literature such as injecting Test E subq everyday between 25-50mg/day which is far from the norm. However, the blood tests don't lie. His methods are primarily for health and longevity, but again, he's an IFBB pro so he must be doing something right.

Obviously, blasting high doses are effective, but at what cost? I'm not trying to preach or lecture. Just trying to get you to think about long term. I assume you would want that info since you're asking about ND causing health issues. Nandrolone Deca can be harmful, but nothing is worse than Trenbolone as far as injectable a go. 19nors in general are bad news as far as health goes. The catch 22 is that 19nors are also the most powerful and effective as far as results go.

The thing to keep in mind is moderation. I believe that everything is okay in moderation with the exception of crack, meth, and things of that nature, but I think you get my point. Even water can kill you and cause health problems if you drink too much and throw off the bodies homeostasis (electrolyte balance). Multivitamins are ranked hire than steroids as far as supplement related deaths go, so again moderation is key. Research, research, research....

 

[TrinityD]

Yeah, I'm not a bodybuilder, I do IFBB Physique so I will never be doing anything that's really unhealthy because...well...it's not necessary in this kind of division.

I really am just looking on any kind of real evidence about Deca. All I have found is are a few studies, none of which are on humans


#1
Effects of the anabolic steroid nandrolone decano... [Metabolism. 1996] - PubMed - NCBI

Nandrolone caused significant plaque buildup, increase in lumen size of the arteries, etc

#2
Nandrolone eleven times more damaging to blood vessels than testosterone

Nandrolone 11x more damaging to blood vessels than Testosterone


I have several others I came across, but don't feel like pulling them up.

I don't disagree or agree that these claims are true. Tbh, it makes sense to me that nandrolone could cause this to happen. But I just feel that if this were truly the case, a lot of people would be dying from it, am I wrong to think this? Shoot, there are so many guys that used deca for literally 20-40 years(I am not at ALL exaggerating when I say some have used 40+ years nonstop of 300-400+ a week) and they seem fine? Somebody can always make the argument, "well there's people that smoke for 60 years and are ok too, then others smoke for 5 and get lung cancer". Yes, genetics obviously has an IMMENSE role to do with how one's body will react; but I'm looking for the bigger picture of how it affects most of the populace utilizing the compound for physique purposes.

But where are all the people getting serious problems from Deca? Once again, I truly am not trying to disagree. I do believe all these claims, but I just would like to see evidence, and perhaps anecdotal evidence too. I would truly be interested to see more opinions and others reports.

Thanks for the input everybody

 

[Medic08]

If you want to give being a pro or high level competitor, I suggest you listen to Big A and others with similar philosophies and not Emeric. Emeric's methods are more likely to keep you healthy.

Exactly. The only reason I brought up Emeric is bc I thought we were discussing health and not what it takes to become an IFBB pro. I don't mean that as a knock against you. I just couldn't think of a better way to say it, but it sounds like I'm being a dick. Lol just wanted to make that clear.

 

[Chode Logan]

I've posted this as well. This is why you should only use NPP.

Is it the ester Nandrolone itself? I hope NPP is better cause its my faaaaaaav

 

[Knight9]

Is it the ester Nandrolone itself? I hope NPP is better cause its my faaaaaaav

Nandrolone is the drug. Phenylpropionate ester gets in and out very quickly compared to decanoate.

 

[warlock]

Nandrolone is the drug. Phenylpropionate ester gets in and out very quickly compared to decanoate.

NPP should be a better choice for that reason.

 

[Knight9]

NPP should be a better choice for that reason.

Yes, Deca builds super high and lingers super long which exposes you to it for much longer than you are running it.

 

[Chode Logan]

Yesss I know Nandrolone is the drug was just curious if there was any reason why the shorter ester would be less damaging than the long ester.

I have to say overall NPP is a dramtically more effective compound in every aspect so I hope you guys are right

 

[warlock]

Yes, Deca builds super high and lingers super long which exposes you to it for much longer than you are running it.

Exactly. I believe deca stays in your system for up to 18 months. I honestly see no point of using deca when there exists the choice of NPP. Sure, NPP has to be injected more frequently, but like you said, it gets in and out of your system quickly, and if you are experiencing sides, you can stop and recover faster.

 

[TrinityD]

These effects are experienced with the compound itself : Nandrolone.
The ester has absolutely nothing to do with anything.

Also making claims such as "Deca stays in your system for 18 months" is hogwash. The metabolites linger around in your system. The metabolites have nothing to do with the active drug itself. The metabolites of NPP linger around almost just as long.....

I can see why some would say that NPP would be better than DECA for health purposes, in the sense that NPP gets in and out quicker. However, I really highly doubt there is really any kind of difference "health wise" between the two esters.

If you take 600deca for 10-12 weeks, most of that time is spent simply building up the compound to actually deliver the amount you're really trying to get in your system. I would say you have far more time of having less MG per MG ester available in your system to do "damage" than if you took 600npp. 600npp will be in your system very quickly that entire 10-12 weeks, and would do "more damage" imo. This really boils down to the length of the cycles, I suppose.

Regardless, this is all speculation. I can somewhat understand the point that the 600deca will "linger in your system" for a few weeks after that 10-12 weeks - but so what? The NPP was in your system at a much higher dose in those beginning weeks(quite possibly up to about 8 weeks at a higher dose than 600deca). Either way, you can't say either is safer; I would argue in this scenario of comparing 600deca vs 600npp for 10-12 weeks , that the 600npp has a lot more time to "deal damage" at a higher mg. Could be wrong...but this still is not really the point of the subject.

Perhaps if we dragged it out to 12-16 weeks , then we could say "NPP would be better" because it's less time the drug is in your system and NPP does not have the chance to have the 'compound effect' that long esters have, which causes the MG of substance in your body to become even higher. Still, not the point.

 

[Medic08]

It sounds like you already have your mind made up and know everything about Deca, so what was the point of starting this thread? Not trying to start shit, but you asked questions, we answered based off of science and studies and it sounds like you already have your mind made up. It's not "hogwash," as you said, but I don't know what else to tell you. If the ester made no difference then what's the point of making separate esters? There is a difference, my friend.

Good luck with whatever you choose.

 

[Knight9]

These effects are experienced with the compound itself : Nandrolone.
The ester has absolutely nothing to do with anything.

Also making claims such as "Deca stays in your system for 18 months" is hogwash. The metabolites linger around in your system. The metabolites have nothing to do with the active drug itself. The metabolites of NPP linger around almost just as long.....

I can see why some would say that NPP would be better than DECA for health purposes, in the sense that NPP gets in and out quicker. However, I really highly doubt there is really any kind of difference "health wise" between the two esters.

If you take 600deca for 10-12 weeks, most of that time is spent simply building up the compound to actually deliver the amount you're really trying to get in your system. I would say you have far more time of having less MG per MG ester available in your system to do "damage" than if you took 600npp. 600npp will be in your system very quickly that entire 10-12 weeks, and would do "more damage" imo. This really boils down to the length of the cycles, I suppose.

Regardless, this is all speculation. I can somewhat understand the point that the 600deca will "linger in your system" for a few weeks after that 10-12 weeks - but so what? The NPP was in your system at a much higher dose in those beginning weeks(quite possibly up to about 8 weeks at a higher dose than 600deca). Either way, you can't say either is safer; I would argue in this scenario of comparing 600deca vs 600npp for 10-12 weeks , that the 600npp has a lot more time to "deal damage" at a higher mg. Could be wrong...but this still is not really the point of the subject.

Perhaps if we dragged it out to 12-16 weeks , then we could say "NPP would be better" because it's less time the drug is in your system and NPP does not have the chance to have the 'compound effect' that long esters have, which causes the MG of substance in your body to become even higher. Still, not the point.

Are you kidding? The ester makes a whole hell of a fucking lot of difference on how long you are exposed to it. Please don't post that sort of bullshit.
I'll take a doctor's word over yours on there being a damn difference. I'll also refer to my own common sense. Metabolites may have nothing to do with it but deca stays elevated for a very long time in a human's body.

Your analogy is hogwash. You don't understand that if you are using Deca as opposed to NPP, the entire point of the NPP is get it in and get it out. Deca takes forever to build and forever to evacuate. You're exposing your heart cells etc to much longer duration of nandrolone. It is not a hard concept to understand.

This kind of response just fucking baffles me.

 

[Knight9]

It sounds like you already have your mind made up and know everything about Deca, so what was the point of starting this thread? Not trying to start shit, but you asked questions, we answered based off of science and studies and it sounds like you already have your mind made up. It's not "hogwash," as you said, but I don't know what else to tell you. If the ester made no difference then what's the point of making separate esters? There is a difference, my friend.

Good luck with whatever you choose.

Clearly he knows all. I don't even know why he is on this forum. He should be writing books. Like I said, I will take a highly intelligent physician's word over his 100 out of 100 times.

 

[TrinityD]

I'm really confused at your guys' responses... maybe I have not illustrated my thoughts well, lol???You guys are talking to me as if I am defending Deca or NPP, and I really am not.

In fact I do believe, as I have already stated, that the "theory that it's very damaging to the CV system and artery walls" is not 'hogwash'. Yet, the impression I'm getting from you guys is that I'm somehow defending Nandrolone? I'm really confused.

Literally, all I have asked was for people to chime in with more evidence or anecdotal evidence. Some of you already did that, and I appreciate it. I just wanted more involvement in the subject if possible, that's all? I haven't seen much of anything conclusive besides the few studies I have seen.

I'm really sorry if I've somehow offended anybody, or if anybody thinks "I've made up my mind" on anything?

=/


PS: This whole NPP vs DECA discussion is a complete tangent from the forum thread IMO. Regardless of that , I stated I think 2-3x in my response to it, that I may be wrong...and it was speculation,and it was just an opinion. It still had nothing to do with what the topic of the thread was.