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How to boost my LH - labs done

DrZaius7

Member
Registered
Joined
Apr 13, 2006
Messages
395
Hey Bros,

Been experiencing off cycle Gyno flare. Got labs done and the results are:

Total Test: 204
LH: 1.1
Estradiol: 22

My total test and leutenizing hormone are super low and estrogen is within a normal range but it’s ratio is very high given my low test levels.
Do you think that is causing the Gyno?

Also, what is my best bet to get my body to start producing LH again so I can get my natural test up.

Thanks
 
Actually my total test is: 150
My free test is: 23.1

Both are in the basement
 
low LH and low test is pituitary failure. Time may do it, but clomiphene for 3-6 mos might work to "restart" things.

If not, TRT i would say.

Have you had prolactin checked?
 
SERMs and an AI.

wk 1-6 Tamox 20mg/ED (40mg/ED week 1)
wk 1-6 Clomid 25mg/ED (50mg/ED week 1)
wk 1-9 Aromasin 12.5mg/ED
 
My doc wouldn’t test for prolactin even though I pleaded. Very old school they had to even override the computer to allow the estradiol test.

I have appointment with urologist on Jan 3rd to discuss TRT.
I am hoping they will prescribe me clomid and try to get my own going again.

If I don’t take 1mg arimidex and 40mg/day nolvadex minimum my gyno flares like a beast.

I have some research clomid but I’m hesitant to start it before my appoint on the 3rd just in case they want to run blood work again and it should have started pushing up my levels and then don’t qualify for TRT if I decide to go that route.
 
Don't start SERMs, they will stimulate you but just put you worse off after you come off. We figured out back in the 90s that the whole PCT thing was bunk, but the prohormone people brought it back to make money.

Your results are predictable, you are aromatizing too much, that is giving you high E2 relative to T, this is causing low GNRH production and thus low LH (E2 controls GNRH and LH). Using nolva and AIs may have upregulated aromatase production, so does cycling. Bodyfat increases aromatase also. Blocking E2 with AIs (even suicidal ones) is a temporary fix and will just upregulate aromatase production in the long run.

You have to either stay off and minimize E2 without messing with the HPGA and just give it time to recover, or go on TRT, your choice. I would give it at least 3-6 months without anything (no AI or SERMs) if you want to see if you will recover.

If you are going on TRT, consider checking out Emeric's "10mg per day" thread.
 
Thanks for the advice brother. If I stop all serms and AI’s my gyno will flare up and grow like crazy. That’s how I first ended up at the doc and found my Test was in the basement.

Don't start SERMs, they will stimulate you but just put you worse off after you come off. We figured out back in the 90s that the whole PCT thing was bunk, but the prohormone people brought it back to make money.

Your results are predictable, you are aromatizing too much, that is giving you high E2 relative to T, this is causing low GNRH production and thus low LH (E2 controls GNRH and LH). Using nolva and AIs may have upregulated aromatase production, so does cycling. Bodyfat increases aromatase also. Blocking E2 with AIs (even suicidal ones) is a temporary fix and will just upregulate aromatase production in the long run.

You have to either stay off and minimize E2 without messing with the HPGA and just give it time to recover, or go on TRT, your choice. I would give it at least 3-6 months without anything (no AI or SERMs) if you want to see if you will recover.

If you are going on TRT, consider checking out Emeric's "10mg per day" thread.
 
Thanks for the advice brother. If I stop all serms and AI’s my gyno will flare up and grow like crazy. That’s how I first ended up at the doc and found my Test was in the basement.

So you are currently on an AI and a SERM? Are you aware that they both alter your testosterone, LH, and GNRH production?

Sounds like you have gyno that is fairly developed and you are needing to keep E2 ultra low.

Are you aware that SERMs may mess with your E2 test result unless you get the sensitive test done?

Definitely check prolactin.

If your doc won't pull bloods you want just order them yourself:

https://www.findlabtest.com/lab-test/
 
SERMs and an AI.

wk 1-6 Tamox 20mg/ED (40mg/ED week 1)
wk 1-6 Clomid 25mg/ED (50mg/ED week 1)
wk 1-9 Aromasin 12.5mg/ED

I thought you recommend Humanofort for things like this? Did you change your mind?
 
Don't start SERMs, they will stimulate you but just put you worse off after you come off. We figured out back in the 90s that the whole PCT thing was bunk, but the prohormone people brought it back to make money.

Your results are predictable, you are aromatizing too much, that is giving you high E2 relative to T, this is causing low GNRH production and thus low LH (E2 controls GNRH and LH). Using nolva and AIs may have upregulated aromatase production, so does cycling. Bodyfat increases aromatase also. Blocking E2 with AIs (even suicidal ones) is a temporary fix and will just upregulate aromatase production in the long run.

You have to either stay off and minimize E2 without messing with the HPGA and just give it time to recover, or go on TRT, your choice. I would give it at least 3-6 months without anything (no AI or SERMs) if you want to see if you will recover.

If you are going on TRT, consider checking out Emeric's "10mg per day" thread.

PCT does work. There is a boat load of data showing SERMs increase endogenous Test in males.

Tapering off SERMs or introducing an AI towards the end of a PCT cycle is the way to avoid some of the issues you have raised here limiting the damage e2 can do once the drugs have stopped.

Dr Mike Scally recently wrote this for us:

https://www.steroidabuse.org/information/post-cycle-therapy-pct/
 
I thought you recommend Humanofort for things like this? Did you change your mind?

I dont believe it will do much for endogenous Test, but can be used to enhance energy and well being. But to be honest, I think its overpriced for what it is and does. You're better spending the money elsewhere IMO.
 
I’ve been on nolva and either letro or arimidex daily for about 3 months now.

I was on them for 4 weeks when I had my Test first tested in October and it came back at 204

I took a one week break from Nolva and Arimdex before having my labs just re-done so they would clear out. That’s when my Test came back at 150 and Estradiol at 22

I would have expected a boost in Test or at least the same but it actually dropped.

Clomid is the one thing I haven’t tried yet.

My last cycle ended at the end of July. Was just Test and Mast
 
I live in NY and they are one of 2 states you can’t get your own blood work done. It’s ridiculous.

I dropped serms and AI for one week before my E2 test





So you are currently on an AI and a SERM? Are you aware that they both alter your testosterone, LH, and GNRH production?

Sounds like you have gyno that is fairly developed and you are needing to keep E2 ultra low.

Are you aware that SERMs may mess with your E2 test result unless you get the sensitive test done?

Definitely check prolactin.

If your doc won't pull bloods you want just order them yourself:

https://www.findlabtest.com/lab-test/
 
That’s a great article. Thanks for sharing the link.



PCT does work. There is a boat load of data showing SERMs increase endogenous Test in males.

Tapering off SERMs or introducing an AI towards the end of a PCT cycle is the way to avoid some of the issues you have raised here limiting the damage e2 can do once the drugs have stopped.

Dr Mike Scally recently wrote this for us:

https://www.steroidabuse.org/information/post-cycle-therapy-pct/
 
I live in NY and they are one of 2 states you can’t get your own blood work done. It’s ridiculous.

I dropped serms and AI for one week before my E2 test

There is a sponsor here ,Cratus Medical,they do bloodwork for us guys in NY and NJ. I have used them 3 times and live in NJ
 
PCT does work. There is a boat load of data showing SERMs increase endogenous Test in males.

Tapering off SERMs or introducing an AI towards the end of a PCT cycle is the way to avoid some of the issues you have raised here limiting the damage e2 can do once the drugs have stopped.

Dr Mike Scally recently wrote this for us:

https://www.steroidabuse.org/information/post-cycle-therapy-pct/

That study is paper lacks actual studies, it's essentially bioscience. He fails to actually explain the biochemistry of the "restart." Every drug he lists stimulates you but also shuts you down. There is no science here.

There ARE real studies on clomid and PCT (only two I know of, on two individuals, not full studies). Both of these were flawed because they too bloodwork 4-6 weeks after stopping clomid, when metabolites of clomid are still active and stimulating test production unnaturally.

I’ve been on nolva and either letro or arimidex daily for about 3 months now.

I was on them for 4 weeks when I had my Test first tested in October and it came back at 204

I took a one week break from Nolva and Arimdex before having my labs just re-done so they would clear out. That’s when my Test came back at 150 and Estradiol at 22

I would have expected a boost in Test or at least the same but it actually dropped.

Clomid is the one thing I haven’t tried yet.

My last cycle ended at the end of July. Was just Test and Mast

You are completely screwing your levels by going on and off the AI and SERMs, all the bloodwork is pretty much pointless unless you stop all those for 2-3 months at least.
 
That study is paper lacks actual studies, it's essentially bioscience. He fails to actually explain the biochemistry of the "restart." Every drug he lists stimulates you but also shuts you down. There is no science here.

There ARE real studies on clomid and PCT (only two I know of, on two individuals, not full studies). Both of these were flawed because they too bloodwork 4-6 weeks after stopping clomid, when metabolites of clomid are still active and stimulating test production unnaturally.



You are completely screwing your levels by going on and off the AI and SERMs, all the bloodwork is pretty much pointless unless you stop all those for 2-3 months at least.

Dr. Scally is a qualified endocrinologist (yes I know he was struck off in Texas) with thousands of patients being treated in his very long career. He's seen the BW of certain drugs, protocols and dosages. Yet, you think you know better. Pretty amazing to be honest but anyway.

Why do you think the metabolites of Tamoxifen and Clomid are both at work 6 weeks AFTER cessation? Even if they are, its just a theory of yours they're active enough to impact the negative feedback mechanism.

Tapering SERMs or using an AI towards the end of the PCT protocol will mitigate the negative effects estrogen is going to cause later on.

What data do you have the states that SERMs cause shutdown after usage when treating hypogonadism?
 
That study is paper lacks actual studies, it's essentially bioscience. He fails to actually explain the biochemistry of the "restart." Every drug he lists stimulates you but also shuts you down. There is no science here.

There ARE real studies on clomid and PCT (only two I know of, on two individuals, not full studies). Both of these were flawed because they too bloodwork 4-6 weeks after stopping clomid, when metabolites of clomid are still active and stimulating test production unnaturally.



You are completely screwing your levels by going on and off the AI and SERMs, all the bloodwork is pretty much pointless unless you stop all those for 2-3 months at least.

What would you suggest then for me to normalize?
If I stop the serms and AI I will grow a huge set of boobs. When it’s flaring it hurts and and makes me feel like total crap. There is no lump. Feels fatty so I’m hoping I can still reverse it once I get hormones under control.
 
What would you suggest then for me to normalize?
If I stop the serms and AI I will grow a huge set of boobs. When it’s flaring it hurts and and makes me feel like total crap. There is no lump. Feels fatty so I’m hoping I can still reverse it once I get hormones under control.

When you are on the SERM and AI, you are stimulating GNRH, LH , and Test production, probably pretty high, above the normal range. You are also keeping estradiol super low while possibly upregulating aromatase production (even if using suicidal, this still happens). When you stop the AI and SERM, you immediately go in to a HIGH estradiol state, shut down GNRH and LH and Test. 32 ng/dl might not seem that high, but it is when your test is that low, because ALL e2 comes from test in men, so in order to get 32 ng/dl, you have to be converting the shit out of that tiny amount of test you are making. You have dug yourself a hole.

You can do a couple of things, you can go off the AI, then taper off the SERM and wait 3-6 months for test levels to recover to whatever they will. You can go on TRT for life.

There is a really good chance you have high prolactin and that is part of the issue, a HUGE percentage of people (up to 25%) are thought to have pituitary tumors that can lead to higher than normal prolactin. Prolactin would cause all the effects you are having and lowering E2 ultra low would provide relief.
 
Dr. Scally is a qualified endocrinologist (yes I know he was struck off in Texas) with thousands of patients being treated in his very long career. He's seen the BW of certain drugs, protocols and dosages. Yet, you think you know better. Pretty amazing to be honest but anyway.

Why do you think the metabolites of Tamoxifen and Clomid are both at work 6 weeks AFTER cessation? Even if they are, its just a theory of yours they're active enough to impact the negative feedback mechanism.

Tapering SERMs or using an AI towards the end of the PCT protocol will mitigate the negative effects estrogen is going to cause later on.

What data do you have the states that SERMs cause shutdown after usage when treating hypogonadism?

I'm not questing his doctoral degree, being a doctor doesn't excuse oneself from needing real research to prove things. When a team of doctors gets together, and they study one thing, and do tests on it, and come to a conclusion, and then other doctors look at what they did and review it, THAT knows better than some individual doctor who can't control his data properly.

I've posted studies on the clomid metabolites years ago, I've also done clomid and seen the bloodwork, it's only clomid, it has one metabolite that has an 8 day halflife or something like that. Almost everyone who uses clomid gets bloodwork done a month after stopping and they have very high test levels, try two months after...

I totally agree with using an AI during the end of a cycle to help with estrogen dominance, that IS 'pct' to me, but it's the "restarting" I don't believe has anything to it.

SERMS block negative E2 feedback at the hyperthamous and stimulate GNRH>LH>T production, this raises E2 through aromatization, but the higher E2 doesn't shut down GNRH production because it's being blocked by the SERM. As soon as you stop the SERM, and even if you taper, you are going to have a state of higher E2 that shuts off GNRH and LH/T, at least to some extent. AIs does the same thing in a different way, they stimulate test by lowering E2, as soon as you remove the AI, E2 climbs, GNRH/LH/T all go down. Of course, eventually, low T will lead to low E2 which will stimulate GNRH again, assuming one doesn't have some kind of "hyperactive aromatase" state, which has been proposed by an endo but is theoretical.
 

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