How to boost my LH - labs done

[DrZaius7]

When you are on the SERM and AI, you are stimulating GNRH, LH , and Test production, probably pretty high, above the normal range. You are also keeping estradiol super low while possibly upregulating aromatase production (even if using suicidal, this still happens). When you stop the AI and SERM, you immediately go in to a HIGH estradiol state, shut down GNRH and LH and Test. 32 ng/dl might not seem that high, but it is when your test is that low, because ALL e2 comes from test in men, so in order to get 32 ng/dl, you have to be converting the shit out of that tiny amount of test you are making. You have dug yourself a hole.

You can do a couple of things, you can go off the AI, then taper off the SERM and wait 3-6 months for test levels to recover to whatever they will. You can go on TRT for life.

There is a really good chance you have high prolactin and that is part of the issue, a HUGE percentage of people (up to 25%) are thought to have pituitary tumors that can lead to higher than normal prolactin. Prolactin would cause all the effects you are having and lowering E2 ultra low would provide relief.

But if my test levels were high that would have showed up on my blood work correct? I had been on Nolva and an AI for 6 weeks before my blood work. But my Testosterone was in the basement and my LH was almost nonexistent.

 

[Kaladryn]

But if my test levels were high that would have showed up on my blood work correct? I had been on Nolva and an AI for 6 weeks before my blood work. But my Testosterone was in the basement and my LH was almost nonexistent.

You dropped them before the blood test...

I dropped serms and AI for one week before my E2 test

And nolva is potentially slightly active for up to a week, further messing with possible results.

 

[DrZaius7]

You dropped them before the blood test...



And nolva is potentially slightly active for up to a week, further messing with possible results.

I did drop them for a week but wouldn’t my testosterone have still been high if they had caused it to jump. Testosterone won’t drop from a high level to 150 in one week right?

 

[Kaladryn]

I did drop them for a week but wouldn’t my testosterone have still been high if they had caused it to jump. Testosterone won’t drop from a high level to 150 in one week right?

Test levels change very rapidly, within a couple days with things like SERMs, AIs, and HCG.

 

[DrZaius7]

So I tried to taper down and get off my AI (arimidex). Was at 1mg/day. That with 40mg Nolva and 80mg Clomid had my gyno in check and I felt good. Wanted to try and start reducing things. So I dropped to .5mg of arimidex for 5 days then dropped it completely and kept the Nolva and Clomid going.

Within 2 days my chest was on fire and gyno was flaring and swollen as ever.

Got home and took my AI tonight feeling defeated....

 

[Swifto]

So I tried to taper down and get off my AI (arimidex). Was at 1mg/day. That with 40mg Nolva and 80mg Clomid had my gyno in check and I felt good. Wanted to try and start reducing things. So I dropped to .5mg of arimidex for 5 days then dropped it completely and kept the Nolva and Clomid going.

Within 2 days my chest was on fire and gyno was flaring and swollen as ever.

Got home and took my AI tonight feeling defeated....

Are your SERMs real?

 

[Kaladryn]

The SERM should be more than enough to take care of your gyno, even at 10-20mg, you have something else going on, prolactin/thyroid maybe, definitely sounds like prolactin...

 

[DrZaius7]

Are your SERMs real?

I think the SERMS are real. To be honest Nolva and most serms never worked that great for me. Most of the time I would have to take Letro or Arimidex to get any effect.

Maybe I should try Toremifene? Heard peeps get good results with that when Nolva doesn’t help them.

I have appointment Monday with Urologist about my low T. Hoping they will request a prolactin lab. My doc wouldn’t even though I pleaded.

I have some Caber. Going to try and hold off using it so I can get a legit prolactin reading if they order the lab.

Are there any research sites that are a board sponsor these days?

 

[DrZaius7]

The SERM should be more than enough to take care of your gyno, even at 10-20mg, you have something else going on, prolactin/thyroid maybe, definitely sounds like prolactin...

Could be prolactin.
Had thyroid tested and it was right in the middle of normal.

What the hell makes your prolactin surge besides massive amounts of tren, anadrol and pituitary tumors??

 

[pickapeck]

I’ve been on nolva and either letro or arimidex daily for about 3 months now.

I was on them for 4 weeks when I had my Test first tested in October and it came back at 204

I took a one week break from Nolva and Arimdex before having my labs just re-done so they would clear out. That’s when my Test came back at 150 and Estradiol at 22

I would have expected a boost in Test or at least the same but it actually dropped.

Clomid is the one thing I haven’t tried yet.

My last cycle ended at the end of July. Was just Test and Mast

As one of the other old timers alluded to, The SERMs can leave a lag time when discontinued. Clomid and Nolvadex have been shown to increase testosterone levels but what is happening is you are sending a non-physiological signal to the auxotrophs in the hypothalamus and pituitary. Once that exogenous signal dissipated those tissues have to resensitize so the natural hormones, estradiol and testosterone tickle those cells in the right way to allow proper control over the HPTA. What I use to do is a 4 week course of SERMs and then wait another 8-12 weeks before getting tested. Generally I would stabilize in the 500-650 ng/dL range. That worked until I was 54. Now I TRT but it's best to cycle rather than TRT IMHO.

 

[DrZaius7]

As one of the other old timers alluded to, The SERMs can leave a lag time when discontinued. Clomid and Nolvadex have been shown to increase testosterone levels but what is happening is you are sending a non-physiological signal to the auxotrophs in the hypothalamus and pituitary. Once that exogenous signal dissipated those tissues have to resensitize so the natural hormones, estradiol and testosterone tickle those cells in the right way to allow proper control over the HPTA. What I use to do is a 4 week course of SERMs and then wait another 8-12 weeks before getting tested. Generally I would stabilize in the 500-650 ng/dL range. That worked until I was 54. Now I TRT but it's best to cycle rather than TRT IMHO.

I need my testosterone to come back to life but I’m more worried about the gyno flare up I’m having when I haven’t touched gear in 5 months.
40mg Nolva and 1mg arimidex daily needed otherwise my left chest swells and hurts like hell. Tried tapering down and my gyno flares. Wtf

 

[danieltx]

I have appointment Monday with Urologist about my low T. Hoping they will request a prolactin lab. My doc wouldn’t even though I pleaded.

Find a new doctor. You're the customer, they work for you - without customers, they don't have a practice.

 

[DrZaius7]

Took 12.5mg if aromasin last night and within 4 hours pain started to subside. Woke up this morning feeling really good.

 

[Kaladryn]

I have never experienced gyno pain and especially not gyno pain that comes and goes so rapidly based on changing estradiol levels.

Honestly, it doesn't sound like gyno, possibly something like a tumor, you can't just ignore it, and you can't just stay on crazy doses of AIs and SERMs forever.

You need to explain to your doctor what you are taking and what you are experiencing, you can't keep him in the dark about your gyno or AI/SERM usage or he can't treat you properly.

Steroids that "increase prolactin" don't actually increase your prolactin levels, the steroid itself acts like prolactin, fits into the prolactin receptor, and activates it (they also can show up as prolactin on bloodwork). Prolactin levels should return to normal when the steroid clears.

A pituitary tumor is by far the most likely, the terminology is even a little misleading, you could probably call it an "enlarged pituitary" and it is an extremely common condition, many people have it and don't even show symptoms and never know they have it...

edit: I'd get off the nolva and just use an AI, the nolva may be aggravating the prolactin based gyno by giving the prolactin receptor a co-binding factor.

 

[DrZaius7]

Saw the urologist today who then referred me to an endocrinologist given the array of symptoms.
Endocrinologist is booked until the end of February. F! I can’t continue to carry on like this. I feel like my entire body is melting away to nothing, except the f’ing gyno

 

[Kaladryn]

Saw the urologist today who then referred me to an endocrinologist given the array of symptoms.
Endocrinologist is booked until the end of February. F! I can’t continue to carry on like this. I feel like my entire body is melting away to nothing, except the f’ing gyno

Endos are hard to see, and usually not very helpful, lol... It's the lowest paid medical doctor profession which is why there are so few (according to my endo).

BTW, avoid touching your nipples, a lot of guys with gyno constantly touch themselves to see how bad it is currently. This stimulation increases prolactin production and makes gyno worse.

 

[DrZaius7]

My urologist did order new labs and agreed to test my prolactin level. Blood drawn this morning and should have results by tomorrow.

Since I’ve been taking 25mg/ aromasin per day I have felt really good gyno-wise. No pain or swelling

 

[Deleted member 121863]

Have you not done HCG yet for boosting LH and total test? 25mg aromasin will put your E2 in the toilet fast, making you feel worse in the other direction. Try 12.5 daily or 25mg EOD.

 

[DrZaius7]

Have you not done HCG yet for boosting LH and total test? 25mg aromasin will put your E2 in the toilet fast, making you feel worse in the other direction. Try 12.5 daily or 25mg EOD.

Haven’t tried HCG at this stage. I usually use it during cycle so don’t use it after.

Once I’m feeling good (no gyno flare) for 10 days or so I’ll try to taper the aromasin to 12.5mg. The past 5 months I’ve needed either 2.5mg letro, 1mg arimidex or 25mg aromasin per day just to keep my gyno from flaring and hurting.

I was on 2.5mg Letro per day for 4 weeks straight and estradiol still came in at 22 which is a ‘normal’ range.

 

[Kaladryn]

Haven’t tried HCG at this stage. I usually use it during cycle so don’t use it after.

Once I’m feeling good (no gyno flare) for 10 days or so I’ll try to taper the aromasin to 12.5mg. The past 5 months I’ve needed either 2.5mg letro, 1mg arimidex or 25mg aromasin per day just to keep my gyno from flaring and hurting.

I was on 2.5mg Letro per day for 4 weeks straight and estradiol still came in at 22 which is a ‘normal’ range.

But you are also doing nolva during this time??

You can't trust that estradiol reading if you didn't get the "sensitive" test. AIs don't lower men's estradiol more than 50-70%, they work differently than in postmenopausal women.