Basal use(Victor Black), proviron question.

[bigzzz]

Hi guys,

The following is part of basal use for Victor Black:

Total 400-500mg AAS per week(test/primo). As much test as you can tolerate and then use a low dose of DHT/primo to control E2.

Now my question is; he also recommends taking 25-50mg of proviron with this, but what is the benefit of doing that(because you are already controlling E2 with primo)?

 

[pistonpump]

Free up test

 

[bigzzz]

Free up test

And what is the benefit of this?

 

[jaxino]

More sex drive?

 

[jaxino]

Hi guys,

The following is part of basal use for Victor Black:

Total 400-500mg AAS per week(test/primo). As much test as you can tolerate and then use a low dose of DHT/primo to control E2.

Now my question is; he also recommends taking 25-50mg of proviron with this, but what is the benefit of doing that(because you are already controlling E2 with primo)?

I would choose your gurus more wisely.

 

[pistonpump]

And what is the benefit of this?

From my understanding most test is bound and when u have it free it's more doing actual things we want like muscle building, libido. Letting the amount of total test be more useful giving u more efficiency with the dose your taking

 

[pistonpump]

In a sense it's just dht which u could accomplish similar with masteron or Primo but I think proviron has stronger binding then the Mast or primo

 

[gains4000]

proviron just makes everything better. its not a mass builder but a good libido mood enhancer.

 

[juggy38]

I would choose your gurus more wisely.

I’m on Broderick Chavez paid sight, watching everything….some really good nuggets.

Most feel his pharmacology views can’t build mass monsters, but from me reading between the lines…he is the drug coach for the RP big guys….

 

[totalrecomp]

I’m on Broderick Chavez paid sight, watching everything….some really good nuggets.

Most feel his pharmacology views can’t build mass monsters, but from me reading between the lines…he is the drug coach for the RP big guys….

I think some people myopically focus on what it take to build a SHW and eventually IFBB Open guy and criticize certain people for not promoting something that would result in such when in reality 99% of the target audience will never even step on stage. Why people cannot see this I will never know.

 

[pistonpump]

I’m on Broderick Chavez paid sight, watching everything….some really good nuggets.

Most feel his pharmacology views can’t build mass monsters, but from me reading between the lines…he is the drug coach for the RP big guys….

RP?

 

[BLang]

Victor Black (and similarly, Joe Jeffrey, who comes from the same school overall) are fans of stuffing proviron into every cycle to, as they put it "alter the androgen to oestrogen ratio".

In short, as mentioned above, the idea is to bind to SHBG, freeing up testosterone to bind to AR, allowing you to have a similar ratio of free androgens to estrogen at a lower total AAS load.

The concept being that if you can achieve a similar Androgen/Estrogen ratio with less total use of Test/DHT-compound, you will have similar anabolic benefit with less downside/toxicity/etc.

This is actually one of the few things I disagree strongly with both of them on, and have actually debated Jeffrey on somewhat extensively.

I'm of the belief that the action of SHBG is still very poorly understood, and that the old school concept of crushing SHBG being inherently good is highly outdated and archaic. I strongly believe that the more we learn about SHBG (much of which we do understand but has been ignored by the BB community for some reason), the more the pendulum will swing towards preserving SHBG to a point. Or at the very least, away from purposefully crushing it.

I think some people myopically focus on what it take to build a SHW and eventually IFBB Open guy and criticize certain people for not promoting something that would result in such when in reality 99% of the target audience will never even step on stage. Why people cannot see this I will never know.

There's also an underpinning of bitterness and jealousy towards the fact that methods of PED use are evolving rapidly, and towards the people who are pushing that evolution, especially if they're achieving any level of fame or fortune from it.

 

[juggy38]

RP?

Renaissance periodization. Mike israteland jarred feather

 

[pimpman]

Proviron doesn’t do crap for other than lower my hdl

 

[danieltx]

I’m on Broderick Chavez paid sight, watching everything….some really good nuggets.

Most feel his pharmacology views can’t build mass monsters, but from me reading between the lines…he is the drug coach for the RP big guys….

Show us one good competitive bodybuilder Broderick Chavez has produced. Show us one non-competitor mass monster he's produced. Dr. Mike Israetel isn't one - and it's taken him over 20 years to get the physique he has now which is absolutely insane. Charlie Joung doesn't fall in that category either - he had most of his size before Chavez. Jared Feather isn't in that group either - he's a genetic freak.

Nobody is getting to a lean 270lbs. on Chavez's methods of minimal testosterone - one thing we've seen over and over on Professional Muscle is the biggest guys are the ones who use the most testosterone. I've listened to tons of Chavez's interviews; I purchased his Sports HRT ebook. His methods have their place but it isn't in putting on maximal amounts of muscle. Guys here know that much better.

I think some people myopically focus on what it take to build a SHW and eventually IFBB Open guy and criticize certain people for not promoting something that would result in such when in reality 99% of the target audience will never even step on stage. Why people cannot see this I will never know.

Chavez really doesn't promote his stuff as maximizing hypertrophy for bodybuilders, people just misconstrue it for various reasons. I think his stuff is very good for athletes and those wanting to venture a bit beyond 150mg/week of testosterone. But even in his Sports HRT ebook all the main concepts are things that have been discussed here for years.

 

[jaxino]

Unfortunately people don't understand that what it takes to create an Open Pro is the same that takes to create a beach body, just less gear less HGH less insulin.

I want to see the results of these bodybuilders running 250 Test + a bunch of aas on top of it.... I tell you that, you will struggle to reach 6' 220lbs lean as I did for years.
Then magically you start pushing Test = Anabolics some HGH some insulin around workout, a lot of food and you start growing again. You will retain water? Yes like all bb trying to grow.

Instead of taking proviron I would run 20mg Winstrol the whole cycle, at least it will produce gains.

All these fake gurus are just trying to reinvent the wheel.

 

[jaxino]

Renaissance periodization. Mike israteland jarred feather

Jeez mate are those athletes?
Mike Isratel looks like crap.
Jarred Feather has great genes and can grow from every training method.

I would like to see Jarred on high test high eq HGH skin and low volume training.... I bet that he would explode.... Instead of loosing time...

 

[goback2013]

Victor Black (and similarly, Joe Jeffrey, who comes from the same school overall) are fans of stuffing proviron into every cycle to, as they put it "alter the androgen to oestrogen ratio".

In short, as mentioned above, the idea is to bind to SHBG, freeing up testosterone to bind to AR, allowing you to have a similar ratio of free androgens to estrogen at a lower total AAS load.

The concept being that if you can achieve a similar Androgen/Estrogen ratio with less total use of Test/DHT-compound, you will have similar anabolic benefit with less downside/toxicity/etc.

This is actually one of the few things I disagree strongly with both of them on, and have actually debated Jeffrey on somewhat extensively.

I'm of the belief that the action of SHBG is still very poorly understood, and that the old school concept of crushing SHBG being inherently good is highly outdated and archaic. I strongly believe that the more we learn about SHBG (much of which we do understand but has been ignored by the BB community for some reason), the more the pendulum will swing towards preserving SHBG to a point. Or at the very least, away from purposefully crushing it.


There's also an underpinning of bitterness and jealousy towards the fact that methods of PED use are evolving rapidly, and towards the people who are pushing that evolution, especially if they're achieving any level of fame or fortune from it.

Ray peat guys are preaching maintaining a certain shbg to estrogen ratio.
When keeping within this ratio one will maintain sexual function

 

[camy9000]

Ray peat guys are preaching maintaining a certain shbg to estrogen ratio.
When keeping within this ratio one will maintain sexual function

AHH the good old ray peat forum hahah

 

[headtrainer]

Proviron can help improve sex drive and mood if you’re lacking DHT and it can even make you a little drier. But I’ve seen no increases in size or strength while using it alongside testosterone.