Fertility after a decade

[laxfan24]

Here is what worked for ME when trying to recover fertility. I ran 500iu HCG T/Thur/Sat and 75iu HMG M/W/F/Sun. I would sprinkle in an extra HMG now and then. Don't be afraid to blast the HMG hard. That's the real superstar of the fertility world. I ran 300mg of Test Cyp the 7 months I ran this protocol. My wife is 8 weeks pregnant currently.
I doubted that I could recover due to Tren, Ment, and NPP use. I also hadn't come off in 10 years. If you're primary hypogonadal then you may have to alter your approach. Good luck brother.

 

[danieltx]

Here is what worked for ME when trying to recover fertility. I ran 500iu HCG T/Thur/Sat and 75iu HMG M/W/F/Sun. I would sprinkle in an extra HMG now and then. Don't be afraid to blast the HMG hard. That's the real superstar of the fertility world. I ran 300mg of Test Cyp the 7 months I ran this protocol. My wife is 8 weeks pregnant currently.
I doubted that I could recover due to Tren, Ment, and NPP use. I also hadn't come off in 10 years. If you're primary hypogonadal then you may have to alter your approach. Good luck brother.

A PSA for all guys seeking fertility.

Permanent AAS-induced infertility is almost unheard of. If you used steroids for years and can't get fertile then you very likely would've still had fertility issues if you never used AAS. There are multiple protocols out there that have helped guys with decades of use regain fertility.

 

[SAVAGEPMHNP]

Just relaying some information that apparently has worked for a lot of people from my coach!! I already had two little ones (Not so little anymore!!) before I got into the Fitness/Bodybuilding/PED realm at 38 y/o. Hope you have some success with whatever you choose to do!

1. 75 IU HMG (Human Menopausal Gonadotropin) every other day until pregnancy occurs
   
   
2. 2000 IU Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) every other day until pregnancy occurs.
   
   
3. 50mg Clomid (clomiphene citrate) 2x a day until pregnancy occurs.
   
   
4. DO NOT TAKE ANY ANABOLIC STEROIDS or Hormone Replacement (HRT)
   
   
5. Injectable Glutathione 200mg per day (increase sperm motility—ability for the sperm cells to swim) **** Optional

 

[Swifto]

I'm trying to think of why you wouldn't go back on a low dosage of exogenous testosterone such as, 10-20mg per day whilst using HCG and HMG?

Your issue is primary hypogonadism. Your steroli, germ and leydig cells have become basically unresponsive due to testicluar dysfunction (lack of stimuli) during these "10 years being on cycle".

So if you come off Test and go the route of cold turkey, you're saying that endogenous LH and FSH are going to restore steroli, germ and leydig cell response BETTER than HCG and HMG and I disagree with that. It might take years or not happen at all.

So I'd get on 10mg Test per day, Enclomipehe (if it can raise LH and FSH in the presence of exo. Test why not), HCG and HMG and watch estrogen. Estrogen can be directly suppressive to the testes and negatively effect spermatogenesis.

I'd also go to a real lab and get sperm parameters/tests done, not some home test kit for $10.

 

[Swifto]

I'm trying to think of why you wouldn't go back on a low dosage of exogenous testosterone such as, 10-20mg per day whilst using HCG and HMG?

Your issue is primary hypogonadism. Your steroli, germ and leydig cells have become basically unresponsive due to testicluar dysfunction (lack of stimuli) during these "10 years being on cycle".

So if you come off Test and go the route of cold turkey, you're saying that endogenous LH and FSH are going to restore steroli, germ and leydig cell response BETTER than HCG and HMG and I disagree with that. It might take years or not happen at all.

So I'd get on 10mg Test per day, Enclomipehe (if it can raise LH and FSH in the presence of exo. Test why not), HCG and HMG and watch estrogen. Estrogen can be directly suppressive to the testes and negatively effect spermatogenesis.

I'd also go to a real lab and get sperm parameters/tests done, not some home test kit for $10.

I guess one could argue you are removing androgenic and estrogenic negative feedback, but at what cost? Feeling like this and having ED is also unacceptable IMO.

You could limit this activation of androgen receptors in the hypothalamus with very low doses (10mg Test) and control E if it gets high with an AI and use Tamox to address any HCG related negative feedback.

 

[cage99]

You’re getting good advice already so just throwing PGE1 (Caverject) out there for erection issues. You’ll have to use a small slin pin and inject a small amount into your shaft. Regardless of libido it’s supposed to be instantaneous erection.

Cage

 

[Flex500]

Ok I am with you. I only know the stuff Justin told me, and the stories of those that have shared positive results. But have not heard anyone who had a bad experience myself. My sample size is small though. I know Ben Chow said he used quite alot of HMG when he did it.

I know another BBer in the UK who did the same HCG / HMG protocol whilst on 100mg test and 200mg primo. They conceived around week 9-10.

I mean I can up the HCG and HMG for sure. The first 3 months I was using 37.5iu of hmg, and then moved to 75iu 3x per week. I could go to up 50% again. HCG could go up too I suppose.

I could add in a small dose of test, TRT wise, to keep things working but I have no way of knowing if it will have an adverse affect I suppose. Its difficult, and as you say, you stress over it and end up over thinking it.

That's why I thought I'd try and give it until next week, see if the cialis helps and get the DNA frag test done. 10 days from now is my wifes next fertile period, so I need to be in a position to perform by then.

I could also add proviron I suppose.

All that makes sense. A large part of me thinks with a good HCG dose and a very high HMG dose you could do about anything. The one common thread I always see that the HMG is the golden goose.

 

[Flex500]

A PSA for all guys seeking fertility.

Permanent AAS-induced infertility is almost unheard of. If you used steroids for years and can't get fertile then you very likely would've still had fertility issues if you never used AAS. There are multiple protocols out there that have helped guys with decades of use regain fertility.

this is my experience. Had a kid at 29 and literally 10 years of trt and cycles my balls were raisins and I had no sperm count and after 9 months of HMG and HCG wife was pregnant. I've never actually seen anyone not be able to come back without an underlying issue. I mean I literally went a decade without functioning at all I never took HCG at all.

 

[bensif]

I'm trying to think of why you wouldn't go back on a low dosage of exogenous testosterone such as, 10-20mg per day whilst using HCG and HMG?

Your issue is primary hypogonadism. Your steroli, germ and leydig cells have become basically unresponsive due to testicluar dysfunction (lack of stimuli) during these "10 years being on cycle".

So if you come off Test and go the route of cold turkey, you're saying that endogenous LH and FSH are going to restore steroli, germ and leydig cell response BETTER than HCG and HMG and I disagree with that. It might take years or not happen at all.

So I'd get on 10mg Test per day, Enclomipehe (if it can raise LH and FSH in the presence of exo. Test why not), HCG and HMG and watch estrogen. Estrogen can be directly suppressive to the testes and negatively effect spermatogenesis.

I'd also go to a real lab and get sperm parameters/tests done, not some home test kit for $10.

Interesting info and thank you for the response.

What about coming off whilst using hcg and hmg as apposed to being on a low dose of test? As that is where I am not now. I came off whilst using hcg and hmg and have been since.

I have no issue with adding test back in and I was 80% convinced this morning. But I am trying to gather as much info as I can before I do anything. The responses in this thread have been very helpful.

I have had several real lab tests, and I have another booked along with a dna frag test. The only reason I haven't done it yet is due to the ED.

The at home tests are a ce marked medical device. Not as good as a lab test but 96% accurate for total count and motility. Its good for more regular monitoring. I've had lab tests every quarter.

 

[TheOtherOne55]

i went thru this same shit so i feel you OP.

I went off cold turkey about a 2 years ago. Tried the HCG thing, nothing. Added clomid, nothing.
No sex drive, no libido and felt like shit. I had 0 interest in sex and being OFF just had me mentally not there.
I did multiple send-in sperm tests with results as low as 6M and as high as 40M.

I eventually got back on low dosed TRT and threw in more HMG. This is the trick that eventually helped me.
I know many protocols say 75iu 3x a week but thats for baseline....i know several guys who used basically double to triple that before anything happened. I was running 75iu ED for myself. Needless to say, i have a 14 month old daughter right now and its amazing.

I also want to reiterate what @danieltx said...I do not know of 1 steroid user who is infertile. It make take some time and $$$ but ALLLL of us can have kids. You just gotta keep plugging away i promise.

 

[bensif]

i went thru this same shit so i feel you OP.

I went off cold turkey about a 2 years ago. Tried the HCG thing, nothing. Added clomid, nothing.
No sex drive, no libido and felt like shit. I had 0 interest in sex and being OFF just had me mentally not there.
I did multiple send-in sperm tests with results as low as 6M and as high as 40M.

I eventually got back on low dosed TRT and threw in more HMG. This is the trick that eventually helped me.
I know many protocols say 75iu 3x a week but thats for baseline....i know several guys who used basically double to triple that before anything happened. I was running 75iu ED for myself. Needless to say, i have a 14 month old daughter right now and its amazing.

I also want to reiterate what @danieltx said...I do not know of 1 steroid user who is infertile. It make take some time and $$$ but ALLLL of us can have kids. You just gotta keep plugging away i promise.

Thanks for the reply mate.

I'm def up for increasing the hmg. Its not cheap, but it's not horrendous.

How long after going back on trt and adding hmg did you conceive?

Congrats on having your daughter mate, amazing.

I can't find much info as to whether testosterone has a dose dependant response when also using hmg and hcg.

 

[TheOtherOne55]

Thanks for the reply mate.

I'm def up for increasing the hmg. Its not cheap, but it's not horrendous.

How long after going back on trt and adding hmg did you conceive?

Congrats on having your daughter mate, amazing.

I can't find much info as to whether testosterone has a dose dependant response when also using hmg and hcg.

DM me, theres a source here with good HMG. I used it to get the wife preg.

My actual protocols were this:
TRT + HCG + Clomid = 30M
Off TRT + HCG + regular amount of HMG = 6M
TRT + HCG + big dose of HMG = 40M

I was on like 100mg of test when i knocked her up. And that was about 4 months of that last protocol. I also am a client of Justin's as well. Persoally i never gave the 2g of test he suggested long enough of a trial before switching off.

 

[bensif]

DM me, theres a source here with good HMG. I used it to get the wife preg.

My actual protocols were this:
TRT + HCG + Clomid = 30M
Off TRT + HCG + regular amount of HMG = 6M
TRT + HCG + big dose of HMG = 40M

I was on like 100mg of test when i knocked her up. And that was about 4 months of that last protocol. I also am a client of Justin's as well. Persoally i never gave the 2g of test he suggested long enough of a trial before switching off.

Thanks for posting this.

Interesting to see off trt but using hcg and hmg you saw a drop. As I feel that is what I have seen. But not because sperm per ml have gone down, but because overall volume has dropped. Before I came off it was doing 3-5ml. I'm now doing 1.5-2.5ml.

 

[specter]

Out off all the guys i personally know who has used and abused roids over the years and tried to get pregnant and having low sperm quality, all stayed on a low dose of test while using hcg, clomid etc and all got their girl pregnant.

 

[d4ve]

i went thru this same shit so i feel you OP.

I went off cold turkey about a 2 years ago. Tried the HCG thing, nothing. Added clomid, nothing.
No sex drive, no libido and felt like shit. I had 0 interest in sex and being OFF just had me mentally not there.
I did multiple send-in sperm tests with results as low as 6M and as high as 40M.

I eventually got back on low dosed TRT and threw in more HMG. This is the trick that eventually helped me.
I know many protocols say 75iu 3x a week but thats for baseline....i know several guys who used basically double to triple that before anything happened. I was running 75iu ED for myself. Needless to say, i have a 14 month old daughter right now and its amazing.

I also want to reiterate what @danieltx said...I do not know of 1 steroid user who is infertile. It make take some time and $$$ but ALLLL of us can have kids. You just gotta keep plugging away i promise.

Was this before you ever hired Justin, just curious?

Haven't had kids myself, yet, but I his high-dose T protocol has worked for a few people I know personally.

 

[bensif]

Was this before you ever hired Justin, just curious?

Haven't had kids myself, yet, but I his high-dose T protocol has worked for a few people I know personally.

Can you elaborate on their experiences if you know a little more?

Eg how long did it take them and did they try other protocols before hand?

 

[Fly Ricky]

I am going through this now. 10 plus years on, last 5 plus on trt. My count was 0. Stayed on TRT and started 75 iu hmg 3 times a week with 500 iu hcg the other days a few months ago. Count had risen to 16 million as of last test, and will test it again soon to see where its at now.

 

[TheOtherOne55]

Was this before you ever hired Justin, just curious?

Haven't had kids myself, yet, but I his high-dose T protocol has worked for a few people I know personally.

During. I used him for about 18 months PRE-KID....tried his way for a month or so but knew i needed to get off everything and spend a full year trying to get my wife preg. Left Justin to try. Spent 18 months trying and finally got her preg. BACK with Justin now.

And i agree, i knew a decent amount who have said that ridiculously high test route works.

 

[Thor65]

After 12 months of hcg hmg (nolva and clomid on and off) and 200mg test a week my wife became pregnant. Before I started my sperm count was 0.

 

[bensif]

I got my result back from exssed today (they verify every submitted test within 24 hours). It came back higher than the initial estimate.

il be doing my lab test next week now to validate this along with the dna fragmentation.

Over 50m total, 27m motile.