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HGH Overrated?

123cctv had a very good post that should have been posted on the datbtrue board where it would have been appreciated about changing and rotating and not creating a "pattern burn in" in regard to GH usage.

Thanks for the complement Dat. Give me a day or two and I'll dig it up and post it. If you have somewhere specific you want it posted, leme know now as there's no tellin where it'll land. :)


He highlighted changing the release profile and using the GHRH/GHRPs and mixing it up to keep things effective. He could have added doing things to increase your insulin sensitivity.

Quite right! Actually I'd say "insulin sensitivity" is just as important (if not more) as changing up one's routine. Thankfully, in regaining (my) insulin sensitivity all I needed to do was alter my diet *slightly* and implement IGF-1LR3 every 3rd day to counter. Looking back, it could have been much worse!


This touches on what 123cctv previously posted on alternating or using your natural GH in the mix. One of the isoforms of natural GH has zero affinity for the prolactin receptor and binding protein and is equally anabolic.

I'm on a regimen now that is going to require me to either upgrade my rhGH at the end of this run or come off of it altogether for several weeks. You can bet your ass I'll be having to rely on GHRH/GHRPs for the production of GH until I've given my body enough time away from the synthetic and avoiding (as you mentioned) a "pattern burn in". Regardless - a change up will be required.
 
Wouldn't/Couldn't a pattern of burn out be prevented if GH was taken EOD, and with GHRP/GHRH's daily and using supplements to inhibit Somatostatin.
 
Title: Composition for growth hormone production and release, appetite suppression, and methods related thereto

United States Patent: 6,521,266

Issued: February 18, 2003

Inventors: Mann; Morris A. (21669 N. 57th Ave., Glendale, AZ 85308)

Appl. No.: 669403

Filed: September 23, 2000

Abstract

A method for enhancing growth hormone production and release, for appetite suppression, or both, in a subject in need thereof. The method comprises administering to the subject an effective amount of a first composition, wherein the first composition increases cholinergic tone and growth hormone synthesis, and the second composition inhibits somatostatin. The first composition may be a combination of an acetylcholinesterase inhibitor and Vitamin E D-.alpha.-succinate, whereas the second composition may be a salt of cysteamine and an alkali buffer, or may be pantothenic acid and an alkali metal salt. A two-part composition comprising the first and second compositions as also disclosed.

DETAILED DESCRIPTION OF THE INVENTION

The present invention is generally directed to compositions and methods for enhancing growth hormone production and release in a subject so as to effectuate rejuvenation and appetite suppression. Although many specific details associated with certain aspects of the present invention are set forth below, those skilled in the art of pharmacology, and especially neuropharmacology, will recognize that the present invention may have additional embodiments, or that the invention may be practiced without several of the details disclosed herein.

As noted above, it is known that growth hormone plays a vital role in human physiology, and numerous methods have been developed to increase growth hormone levels within a human body so as to influence a variety of disease states. It is also known that growth hormone levels decrease after puberty, and continue to gradually decline throughout life, and that growth hormone supplementation in elderly individuals causes changes consistent with rejuvenation. However, because of the size and fragility of the growth hormone molecule, it must be administered by injection. Accordingly, an orally available composition capable of enhancing growth hormone production and release is needed.

The present invention provides an orally administered composition for enhancing growth hormone production and release, and methods related thereto. In addition, it has been surprisingly found that the composition of this invention also serves to suppress appetite in human subjects, which is a desirable attribute in and of itself.

The composition of this invention is a kit formulation, wherein the first part of the composition enhances (1) cholinergic tone and (2) growth hormone synthesis, and wherein the second part of the composition inhibits (3) somatostatin production. Because of the importance associated with the above, each is more fully discussed below.

Increasing Cholinergic Tone

Substances that will increase acetylcholine production and release tend to result in an increase in cholinergic tone above baseline. These substances include, but are not limited to various choline-containing compounds, such as choline bitartrate or phosphatidyl choline; acetylcholine precursors, such as dimethylaminoethanol and congeners related thereto. Substances that increase blood flow in the cerebral cortex are known to increase acetylcholine levels. These substances include, but are not limited to: ginkgo biloba with gincosides assayed at 24% of total weight, niacin, papaverine, hydergine and other ergot alkaloids, etc. Other substances known to increase acetylcholine release include a variety of cholinergic agents, such as pyridostigmine, etc. However, for the purpose of the present invention, an acetylcholinesterase inhibitor is preferred. The Chinese moss derivative huperzine A, which is known to enhance cognition, also affects cholinergic tone. This substance, in conjunction with substances that increase the overall levels of acetylcholine, results in a substantial increase of acetylcholine levels above baseline. Other substances that increase acetylcholine levels include hypericum (St. John's Wort) and S-adenosulmethionine. Seemingly, the antidepressant effects of these two compositions are partially related to their ability to increase acetylchie levels. As is appreciated by those skilled in the art, irreversible acetylcholine esterase inhibitors, such as malathion will increase acetylcholine levels. Unfortunately, these agents are difficult to administer therapeutically because of their narrow margin of safety.

Increasing Growth Hormone Synthesis

Several compounds will enhance growth hormone synthesis. It was recently discovered that Vitamin E .alpha.-D-succinate increases growth hormone synthesis in vitro. Similarly, melatonin will also increase growth hormone synthesis. Unfortunately, there may be a negative feedback on melatonin synthesis in vivo when melatonin is exogenously administered. However, there are amino acids, such as tryptophan and 5-hydroxytryptophan which will increase melatonin synthesis in vivo with chronic administration.

In view of the foregoing, it has been discovered that the first part of the kit of this invention--that is, the part for enhancing cholinergic tone and growth hormone synthesis--may include (as a representative embodiment of this invention) those substances identified in Table 1 below.


TABLE 1
ENCAPSULATED FORMULA CONTAINING SUBSTANCES FOR ORAL ADMINISTRA-
TION TO ENHANCE CHOLINERGIC TONE AND GROWTH HORMONE SYNTHESIS
Mg/capsule % Range
Choline bitartrate 200 mg 42 0.01-95
Dimethylamnoethanol 100 mg 21 0.01-85
Vitamin E .alpha.-D-succinate 100 im = 100 mg 21 0.01-85
Gingko biloba 24% ginkosides 25 mg 5.2 0.001-30
St. John's Wort (0.3% hypericum) 25 mg 5.2
0.001-30
Huperzine A 35 mg 0.0000073
0.000000001-5
5-Hydroxytryptophan 25 mg 0.1999927
0.001-30

Inhibiting Somatostatin Synthesis

There are a limited number of substances that will inhibit somatostatin production. The most potent of these is cysteamine. Unfortunately, this molecule is unstable in air and therefore the salt is used for oral administration in the context of this invention. This substance has been used extensively in agriculture to decrease the time it takes to bring livestock and chickens to market. Unfortunately, this substance is from the chemical class known as mercaptans, which are among the worst smelling and tasting chemicals known to man. As such, and to avoid acid hydrolysis in the gut, cysteamine may be formulated as a readily absorbable liquid preparation.

Accordingly, in view of the foregoing, it has been discovered that the second part of the kit of this invention--that is, the part for inhibiting somatostatin synthesis--may include (as representative embodiments of this invention) those substances identified in Table 2a (liquid form) or Table 2B (capsule form).



TABLE 2A
SOMATOSTATIN INHIBITING AND APPETITE-SUPPRESSING
COMPOSITION
Liquid % Range
Alcohol 20 .1-99
Glycerin 78.7 .1-99
Cysteamine HCL .1 .001-10
Vitamin E .alpha.-D-succinate .1 .001-30
Flavor 2 .0-10
Acetylsalfame K .1 0-5



TABLE 2B
Capsule mg/capsule % Range
Cysteamine HCL 100 16.7 .001-90
Vitamin E .alpha.-D-succinate 100 16.7 .001-90
Magnesium phosphate tribasic 300 49.9 .001-95
Mixed tocopherols 100 16.7 .001-95



It should be noted that Table 2B denotes a formulation of a capsule embodiment having cysteamine in the delivery system, wherein the cysteamine will buffer acid hydrolysis in the gut. In the noted embodiment of Table 2A, an alkaline earth salt-magnesium phosphate tribasic is used. However, and as is appreciated by those skilled in the art, other alkali buffers may be used.

A further pathway to increase levels of cysteamine, and thereby inhibit somatostatin, involves pantothenic acid. Pantothenic acid is a naturally occurring vitamin that is converted in mammals to coenzyme A, a substance vital to many physiological reactions. Cysteamine is a component of coenzyme A, and increasing coenzyme A levels results in increased levels of circulating cysteamine. Alkali metal salts, such as magnesium phosphate tribasic and magnesium sulphite (Epsom salts), enhance formation of coenzyme A. Furthermore, breakdown of coenzyme A to cysteamine is enhanced by the presence of a reducing agent, such as citric acid. Thus, the combination of pantothenic acid and alkali metal salts results in increased coenzyme A production and, concomitantly, cysteamine, thereby resulting in a decrease in somatostatin production. This occurs rapidly (e.g., less than 14 days) with continued administration. This, in conjunction with an increase in cholinergic tone, results in increased levels of growth hormone and cholecystokinin, with a resultant increase in lean body mass and a decrease in appetite. A representative formula containing such components and concentration ranges for the same is disclosed in Table 2C, which may be administered at a dosage of, for example, two capsules three times daily, or three capsules twice daily.



TABLE 2C
REPRESENTATIVE FORMULA
Mg/capsule % Range
Pantothenic Acid (calcium 500 mg 56 .01-99
pantothenate)
Magnesium Phosphate Tribasic 200 mg 22 .1-85
Magnesium Sulfite 100 11 .1-85
Citric Acid 100 11 .01-95

Administration of both parts of the kit of this invention to a warm-blooded animal achieves a number of beneficial results. First, the above kit is an orally administered formulation, which represents a significant improvement over existing, non-oral administration routs. As noted above, the kit of this invention serves to enhance growth hormone production, and enhance release of growth hormone by increasing cholinergic tone. In addition, by inhibiting somatostatin, both production and release of growth hormone are enhanced. Thus, an important aspect of this invention is the ability to both increase growth hormone production and release, and simultaneously antagonize an inhibitor of the same (i.e., somatostatin), and to achieve these results by an orally available route.

In the practice of this invention, it has also been found that administration of the disclosed composition results in appetite suppression. Although not intending to be limited by the following theory, it is believed that cysteamine and its various salts induces the release of cholecystokinin (CCK). This peptide is among the most powerful of all appetite suppressants (at least in humans). Therefore, it is believed that because cysteamine promotes the secretion of CCK, administration of cysteamine results in appetite suppression.

With regard to the administration of the kit, each part of the kit is, in one embodiment, administered simultaneously. For example, when both parts are in the form of a pill, capsule, tablet, liquid or the like, both parts may be taken successively--that is, at the same time or one after the other. Alternatively, administration of each part may be performed at different times. such as minutes or even hours apart. However, for convenience of administration, both parts are typically administered successively.

Claim 1 of 4 Claims

What is claimed is:

1. A kit for effecting weight loss in a subject in need thereof, comprisingcompositions A and B, wherein A and B are representative of the respective compositions, wherein A comprises an effective amount of a first composition that increases cholinergic tone and growth hormone synthesis, and wherein B comprises an effective amount of a second composition that inhibits somatostatin, wherein the first composition, A, comprises:

Choline bitartrate in an amount ranging from 0.01 to 98% by weight of the first composition;

Dimethylamino in an amount ranging from 0.01 to 85% by weight of the first composition;

Vitamin E .alpha.-D-succinate in an amount ranging from 0.01 to 85% by weight of the first composition;

Gingko biloba containing 24% ginkosides in an amount ranging from 0.001 to 30% by weight of the first composition;

St. John's Wort containing 0.3% hypericum in an amount ranging from 0.001 to 30% by weight of the first composition;

Huperzine A in an amount ranging from 0.000000001 to 5% by weight of the first composition; and

5-Hydroxytryptophan in an amount ranging from 0.001 to 30% by weight of the first composition.
 
In my experience, my first run (years ago) of 6 months was the best - saw awesome results. I then stopped altogether at 8 months and noted (as the above Mr. rat noted :)) continued results for about another 6 months...but then they too dwindled away.

My second and current run (which is on going and no plans to ever stop with the exception of only brief periods) offered similar dramatic results, but this time initially progressed for only about 4-5 months and then they leveled off. Keep in mind, I was dosing rather high. Anyhow, about the 6-7th month, I noticed what appeared to be a reversal in effects. Well it took me a while, but I eventually attributed this to increased insulin levels directly caused by the synthetic GH I had been administering. With increased insulin secretion also comes insulin resistance - another noted and inevitable effect. Losing any undesired weight came to a stand still no matter how hard I'd worked out and believe me, I know how to and did push my body to its limits...but it didn't matter.

Thus came the quest to "change up" regimens and counter insulin resistance.

Interesting you mention this. I remember years ago when dieting I got much leaner off GH than I do now. When using GH to diet now I dont see nearly the results and stay more watery. In fact for a brief peroid I remember I just ran ghrp6 a few times per day for about 2months and got the leanest I ever was. Lost a lot of water too. I still cant tell to this day if it was a fluke or maybe I dieted better or what the hell happened.
 
Wouldn't/Couldn't a pattern of burn out be prevented if GH was taken EOD, and with GHRP/GHRH's daily and using supplements to inhibit Somatostatin.

I wonder this too. If 15iu's GH stays in your system for 24hrs it seems like you could still do the blast method and get natty pulses as well. For example Monday take 15iu's then 24hrs later add ghrp/ghrh's, then wed 15iu's then thurs ghrp/ghrh's,etc....
 
Wouldn't/Couldn't a pattern of burn out be prevented if GH was taken EOD, and with GHRP/GHRH's daily and using supplements to inhibit Somatostatin.


Although, GH administration EOD would/should slow the process, the human body isn't easily fooled. There are some things GH admin directly affects whether administered one time or on going. In one post I cited a notation from the "Clinical Pharmacy Associates" Drug Class Review:

"Recombinant growth hormone...directly affect the following: antagonism of peripheral actions of insulin and increasing insulin secretion,"

So first, we know to expect w/rhGH increased insulin secretion -- a probable and inevitable insulin resistance. How rapid the occurrence? Greatly dependant on dosages and tolerance. Still...a path that needs to be avoided and countered.

A pattern burn in or even desensitization can all be avoided, much of it simply by rotation as you suggest. However, GH and GHRP/GHRH's admin'ed EOD for me (as I've done that protocol too) still required a change. In other words, give it one week entirely GHRP/GHRH's, then another week rhGH. Then admin each EOD as you said, etc. But continually mix it up!! If not and you retain any pattern long enough, I'm saying your benefits will eventually diminish.

Here's the thread I posted that offered additional thoughts and protocols that worked out well for me:
http://www.professionalmuscle.com/f...etic-gh-benefits-declining-helpful-hints.html

Bottom line - effective prolonged usage will require confusion!
 
Although, GH administration EOD would/should slow the process, the human body isn't easily fooled. There are some things GH admin directly affects whether administered one time or on going. In one post I cited a notation from the "Clinical Pharmacy Associates" Drug Class Review:

"Recombinant growth hormone...directly affect the following: antagonism of peripheral actions of insulin and increasing insulin secretion,"

So first, we know to expect w/rhGH increased insulin secretion -- a probable and inevitable insulin resistance. How rapid the occurrence? Greatly dependant on dosages and tolerance. Still...a path that needs to be avoided and countered.

A pattern burn in or even desensitization can all be avoided, much of it simply by rotation as you suggest. However, GH and GHRP/GHRH's admin'ed EOD for me (as I've done that protocol too) still required a change. In other words, give it one week entirely GHRP/GHRH's, then another week rhGH. Then admin each EOD as you said, etc. But continually mix it up!! If not and you retain any pattern long enough, I'm saying your benefits will eventually diminish.

Here's the thread I posted that offered additional thoughts and protocols that worked out well for me:
http://www.professionalmuscle.com/f...etic-gh-benefits-declining-helpful-hints.html

Bottom line - effective prolonged usage will require confusion!

Isnt that a tad extreme? Why not GH for a month and ghrp/ghrp for a month, then maybe both EOD,etc...
 
Also a ? for you 123. Say you wanna blast for a few months at 20iu's 3x per week. Would you recommened going straight from ghrp/ghrh's right to 20iu's GH? Everyone says you need to ramp it up, but to get to 20iu's GH you would need to ramp for at least a month, then your kinda screwed b/c your bodies used to the GH.
 
Isnt that a tad extreme? Why not GH for a month and ghrp/ghrp for a month, then maybe both EOD,etc...


Yes, that could work too. However it wouldn't be extreme. Mix it up enough that your body is unable to adapt (you'd be surprised just how fast the body can adapt). However,...just exactly 'how' you mix it up, I'd rather not "split hairs" over and leave to each user to decide. Thus the point I'm trying to make is --> for best results, administration in the form of "confusion" is the desired goal. Further, the longer one has been on a particular protocol, the greater the risk and need that they mix up their regimen.

Leme answer your other question later on tonight. :)
 
Yes, that could work too. However it wouldn't be extreme. Mix it up enough that your body is unable to adapt (you'd be surprised just how fast the body can adapt). However,...just exactly 'how' you mix it up, I'd rather not "split hairs" over and leave to each user to decide. Thus the point I'm trying to make is --> for best results, administration in the form of "confusion" is the desired goal. Further, the longer one has been on a particular protocol, the greater the risk and need that they mix up their regimen.

Leme answer your other question later on tonight
. :)



Thanks im looking forward to this. ive been doing just 4iu's ED and stopped for a few weeks. The past week i've shot 8iu's one day and then 10 a few days later but I wanna blast at 20iu's only 3x per week for just 8weeks while I add some mass, but im not sure if I can just jump into 20iu's 3x per week or if im gonna have to gradually get there. That would suck b/c 1.) thats more time on GH and the body will adapt more, esp if i gotta go like 10iu's 3x week then 12 the next week, then 14,etc.. thats a long ass time. 2.) Thats a waste of $ for all that gh just to ramp to the dose I want :)
 
just curious 123...

Is it effective if i were to run a kit or 2 of synthetic GH till it runs out than rotate over to just solely GHRP-6 for a month, before going back to the synthetic GH again, repeating the process?

This is in hope to cause confusion to the body, and at the same time it looks easier on the wallet...:p

I too notice the effects are starting to wean off compared to my first run with synthetic GH, which was in May...

Also, just say if i were to run IGF-LR3 to counter the insulin resistance, how would you recommend running it, in the most cost efficient manner?
 
Last edited:
123, I'm interested in where Matrix is trying to go with this as well. I have been running my GH at 4-6 iu's daily for quite awhile now. If someone was to switch over to some type of Gh releasing peptide for a couple weeks, which would you choose and how would you run it?
 
haha....

Settle down twinks, he's answering my ? first.

Calm down Mr Cyp.....Mr Rat here has no rush and is just curious with what 123 has to say......Go chill out with Mr Enan if ya feelin too tight...:D
 
Everyone says you need to ramp it up, but to get to 20iu's GH you would need to ramp for at least a month, then your kinda screwed b/c your bodies used to the GH.


Not necessarily. Just because you're having to start at a lower dose of GH, only to ramp it up gradually doesn't mean you'll be using more GH overall. In fact, it can be the contrary! You can effectively run longer using the same amount of GH you were originally going to use. And that's the real key here - having an effective run.

Let's work on this first - our muscle is only capable of growing so fast. So consider -- run 20IU's one day PWO OR run 4IU EOD, for a total of 5 times PWO? Which is better? If you select the latter, you will have effectively used 20IU (over time) and obtained more growth than would be possible compared to the former. Thus, any additional time on your run has the potential for added growth. So if you were initially going to run one month, running it effectively for two months would be far better! And yes, I'm keeping in mind you'd rather not use more rhGH than you initially planned.

Ok, let's get to a preferred blasting method and literally "milk the cow" for all she's worth. :D Over this last two weeks, I too have been blasting/mega-dosing and have learned why it works, and where I think it fails.

Now I have no clue how much you initially planned on using for your run, but for simplicity sake, let's use 200IU for this example.

Option #1.
You're preferring to do:
15IU PWO 3X a week
Tht's a Total - 4 week supply w/20IU remaining.

Option #2.
5IU PWO 3X a week = 2 weeks
10IU PWO 3X a week = 2 weeks
15IU PWO 3X a week = 2 weeks
Total - 6 week supply w/20IU remaining.

Before I elaborate on why Option #2 is far better, leme make a point without any explanation (this write up is too long already). Suffice it to say -- in general, larger dosing works well on shorter runs and lower dosing generally allows for longer runs. I hope that made sense. Remember this as we discuss the possible (above) Options.

Option #1. This extreme dosage has the potential to and should cause the user to adapt to the research far sooner than Option #2 and we do not want any adaptation or pattern burn in.

If I may? Let me use a member here as an example. Hawkmoon was blasting, but only dosing at 10IU (not 15IU) PWO. Hawkmoon - if I misrepresent you and any of your research, PLEASE let me know and chime in where I went wrong. Hawkmoon said,

I also saw no changes beyond what happened in the first two months or so.

My thoughts? I'm surprised he benefited as long as he did. But what if he were utilizing 15IU instead? Notable benefits would have declined at an even faster rate due to the increased dosage. In other words, instead of having a good 6-8 week run of benefits, with the latter weeks of benefits dwindling greatly, he would have only seen 4-6 weeks of benefits. This is of course a guess and only approx's., but none the less, in general, adaptation occurrence sooner w/larger dosing.

That would suck b/c 1.) that's more time on GH and the body will adapt more, esp if i gotta go like 10iu's 3x week then 12 the next week, then 14,etc.. that's a long ass time. 2.) That's a waste of $ for all that gh just to ramp to the dose I want

These suggested increased increments are so minimal, I don't think they'd matter. Let's get back to Hawkmoon, note he started at 5IU, then later to 10IU.

Well I am three weeks in now 1.5 weeks at 5iu M/W/F and 1.5 weeks at 10iu M/W/F.

In my mind, that was perfect. As in Option 2 and after reaching 10IU, he could have increased a couple of weeks later to 15IU and noted similar initial benefits. What I mean by this is -- the first week or so the user should see extremely profound results. After that, by drastically increasing dosage, the following week or so should return similar results as the first week or so did. Make sense? Seriously bump up the dosage again, and results should ramp up again, rather than at that point begin to dwindle.

Can ramping up the dosage to overwhelm the body via shock continue on forever? No. However confusion does have the potential to continue.

I will say this though,....I believe there is a misconception or misunderstanding of what will occur with a Blast run. I experienced it as early as day two and was unexpected. To be saved for another post.

Bottom line MrCyp - formulate something similar to Option #2. It's best to start out low (say 5IU or so) for your Blast run for reasons stated above. There is of course other reasons -- your body may not be able to handle the dosages as high as you'd hoped for which in all purposes is a good thing. That means, you have the opportunity to achieve the same results others might at lessor dosages (lessor costs) to you. Yes, everyone is different.

Think about this: Let's say I require 20IU to experience particular sides = joint pain and swelling, etc.
You on the other hand require (say) 10IU to experience the same.

All things being equal -- you're taking 10IU to experience the same sides as I at 20IU? Are your IGF levels and other less than mine or similar? If similar, your research costs less than mine and who wouldn't want that? ;)
 
Last edited:
Is it effective if i were to run a kit or 2 of synthetic GH till it runs out than rotate over to just solely GHRP-6 for a month, before going back to the synthetic GH again, repeating the process?

To answer - yes. That would be far better than no rotation whatsoever. If possible and affordable, mix the two together now and then.

Also, just say if i were to run IGF-LR3 to counter the insulin resistance, how would you recommend running it, in the most cost efficient manner?

Cost efficient? I used to dose every 3rd day @ 60-80mcg when I was low. It worked out well for me.
 
If someone was to switch over to some type of Gh releasing peptide for a couple weeks, which would you choose and how would you run it?

Sorry bro,...but this is where I bow out. Dat's the man 'in the know' as far as sources go and can assist in running it better than any.

I wouldn't presume to speak in place of his expertise. ;)
 
123 my plan was to run an 8week blast cycle. Test/tren and try and put on as much muscle as possilbe b/c im gonna be on just hrt for a very long time after this and dont plan on doing another cycle for a long time. I figured i'd incorperate a nice amount of Gh into the 8weeks as well. My original plan was 20iu's 3x per week for 8weeks (480iu's total), but from what you wrote I may get better results if I do an even higher dose than 20iu's but ramp up and not start at 20. LIke maybe
week 1-2 10iu's 3x per week
week 2-4 15iu's 3x per week
week 4-6-20iu's
week 6-8 25iu's

that doesnt add up exactly but thats the idea right?
 
Great summary 123cctv.

Next time I run GH I am considering 15iu 3x a week and a for a short (6-8 week) run.
I'll be sure to keep everyone on board with my experiences.
 
that doesnt add up exactly but thats the idea right?

Yes, that's the premise and far better than retaining one particular dosage throughout the entire run.


Ahh, and thanks Hawkmoon. :) Maybe a few posts from now I'll be using you as an example again re: Blasting
 

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