Insulin - how low does it drop blood sugar?

[Mike Arnold]

there are a couple studies on that topic though claiming that leucine supplementation increases whole body insulin sensitivity.
im well aware of the fact that leucine alone stimulates endogenous insulin secretion. however since i will only use leucine while exogenous insulin is present the potential reduction in insulin sensitivity goes out the window, right?

I have seen a few mice/rat studies sowing that leucine increases sensitivity, but numerous studies done on diabetics and others show the opposite. In addition, an article printed in MD, which cited several studies as a reference, said the same thing. This does no mean there aren't conflicting studies--there may very well be--I just haven't seem them, but I have seen many that say the opposite.

You see, insulin sensitivity is primarily determined by insulin exposure--whether endogenous or exogenous makes no difference. The more insulin receptor is exposed to insulin, the less sensitive it becomes. This is why excessive carbs/sugars, which cause dramatic insulin release, tend to cause insulin resistance...and the same reason why low-carb diets tend to make one more insulin sensitive.

Leucine stimulates insulin production similarly to carbohydrates, decreasing sensitivity through insulin exposure at receptor level. It does not matter if you already have elevated endogenous insulin levels. If you consume leucine in the presence of elevated blood insulin levels, insulin production will be further increased. Studies have proven this by comparing insulin response in carb only and carb + leucine groups, as well as leucine only and leucine + protein groups, among others.

Now, adding a few grams of extra leucine will not have a dramatic effect on insulin production (in comparison to many high-carb meals), but it is still a contributor none the less.



ive also come to the conclusion that my body has some kind of minimum threshold to insulin.
today i repeated my 5iu experiment, but this time not in the morning.
4 hours after the last meal i measured my blood glucose at 87.
that was at 6pm. i injected 5iu novolog then.
6:45pm my BS was at 87, so it barely moved. (whereas with 10-15iu i know that i wouldve been hypo by that time).
7pm still no change. i injected another 10iu then.
7:30pm surprise surprise BS is instantly down to 49 and im hypo. (usually 10-15iu just kick in at 30mins for me, so the cumulative dose did hit a bit faster, even though the FIVE IU ALONE didnt do ANYTHING).
so there seems to be a cumulative effect, but 5iu doesnt do anything at all for me on its own.

a dosage of 5iu does not seem to affect my blood sugar at all. it of course doesnt mean that the insulin is not working, however with 5iu the effect isnt strong enough to move my blood sugar significantly.
Any amount of insulin will ALWAYS effect you, although to what degree can vary depending on numerous factors. You can't have no response to 5 IU and then suddenly respond to 10 IU. In addition, there is no threshold dose where the body suddenly become more sensitive to each IU of insulin administered.

If I am understanding you correctly, you're saying that 5 IU has no affect on circulating BG and that your body suddenly begins responding at the "threshold" dose of 10 IU. The problem here is that insulin doesn't work that way. Now, the more insulin you use, the more BG will be affected, but even small doses will still affect BG.

Just because 5 IU did not cause your BG "readings" to decrease by the time you re-measured, but 10 IU did, does not mean that 5 IU had no impact on circulating BG. That is an impossible proposition. To come to such a conclusion, one would need to believe that insulin is metabolically inactive at doses of 5 IU and does not become active until reaching 10 IU. This just isn't how insulin works.

What you may not realize is that there are numerous factors which can potentially affect one's BG levels, several of which I have already touched on in this thread, and which could easily explain the discrepancy in your readings. Regardless, you can be 100% positive that each IU of insulin administered below 10 IU is just as active as each IU administered beyond 10 IU. There is no threshold dose where the body suddenly starts responding to, or up-regulates its response to insulin. Otherwise, the body would not be able to accurately regulate BG levels through endogenous insulin secretion. Insulin secretions can range from very small to quite large and all of them, from the smallest to the biggest, are metabolically active.


with roughly 10-15 iu it goes like this
injection
after 30mins BS is down 10-15 points
after 40mins BS is down another 10-15 points
after 45mins BS is down another 10-15 points

with 5iu though my BS doesnt even move at all or maybe 10 points down over the whole timeframe its active

10-15 iu kick in after 30mins and im hypo by minute 45 like clockwork

so ill stick to my plan, first shake 30mins after injection, when the slin starts to kick in, instantly head to gym, second shake 60mins later, intra workout.

i find it interesting that 5iu barely does anything though while 10iu is enough to make me go hypo everytime though.
there must be some kind of threshold or compensatory mechanism - at least for my body.

.....

 

[Jizzmo]

yeah mike, thanks again.
i get your points.
what im thinking is that 5iu have a relatively minor impact on BG levels that my body is able to attenuate through gluconeogenesis or a different mechanism, so that BG remains stable even though theres 5iu exogenous insulin in my blood.
maybe its a protection mechanism, i dont know.
somewhere between 5-10iu this mechanism is not sufficient enough anymore to keep BG levels stable and the body goes hypo.
otherwise i cant explain why with 5iu i get a BG reduction of 10 points at best over the whole active time and with 10iu my BG goes down easily 50 points within just 45mins... because thats exactly how my body reacts to these dosages. i could do 25 another tests but im sure the outcome will always be the same...