Is Jay Cutler scamming people with the $3k copy/paste training and diet program?

[TheAnabolicFreak]

Although this isn’t the first time this has been done (some “Coaches” have been notorious for this) most people in bodybuilding hold someone like Jay Cutler to a higher standard.

Do you think it’s a scam to have someone (not even yourself) email everyone who paid you $3000 the same diet and training program that have been rehashed in Flex and Muscular Development for last few decades that are available online for free. Thoughts?

 

[rAJJIN]

I feel like I just got scammed into watching some advertisement.

 

[TheAnabolicFreak]

I feel like I just got scammed into watching some advertisement.

Raj, you’ve been in this game for a minute. What are your thoughts on this practice? I have read that Dave Palumbo was doing this way back in 2008. Sending everyone the same cookie cutter Palumbo diet and if they said they weren’t losing fat just up the cardio.

 

[qbkilla]

to be honest, I wouldn't be shocked if many do this. how many people are they "coaching" at once? you only have so much time to pay attention to each, they may just look at the pics add a few oz of rice to a few meals, say bump up cardio 5 minutes per session every now and then, and hit submit.

A day has 24 hours, if a guy has 100 clients, lol. The ones who are nobodies I doubt get much "coaching"

 

[Nike22]

Sure, Jay is cashing in on his name. Trying to make a quick buck while people still remember who he is. What's newsworthy about that?
Everyone from Gaspari to Labrada to Coleman to Milos does the same thing albeit in different ways.
Hell, I bet Nick Walker is in the process of making his own supplement line as we speak.

Is it just me or does the Samir Bannout face on the Old School Labs logo (which is a cool logo imho) really look like Mike Mentzer?

 

[specter]

This is old news, Dorian did the exact same thing..

 

[TheOtherOne55]

this isnt scamming anymore because its a regular practice.
Jay has never been a coach....so guys looking for him to COACH are either:
1. Newbies
2. Clueless

If they think he is going to go out of his way to send detailed plans, and he's NEVER done this before....then they must be brand spankin new to BBing.
This isn't a scam. This is what Pros do to the regular Joes. Kai Greene has workout guides he sells....diets...etc. Nothing about this is new or novel or bad. We might not like it because we understand what a real coach does, but everyone else does not.

 

[jeroendebleser]

To Dorian's defense, I recently read a comment by someone that was very happy with his coaching and who specifically mentioned Dorian was the person that guided him even though he didn't expect that himself.

May have a been a fake or paid for testimonial I don't know but it looked genuine.

 

[TheRealAphextwin]

I wouldn’t buy it.

 

[airman]

this isnt scamming anymore because its a regular practice.
Jay has never been a coach....so guys looking for him to COACH are either:
1. Newbies
2. Clueless

If they think he is going to go out of his way to send detailed plans, and he's NEVER done this before....then they must be brand spankin new to BBing.
This isn't a scam. This is what Pros do to the regular Joes. Kai Greene has workout guides he sells....diets...etc. Nothing about this is new or novel or bad. We might not like it because we understand what a real coach does, but everyone else does not.

I usually like what you post but you are 100% wrong. Your logic is that because the customers are newbies or clueless it's ok to not provide (a very expensive) you advertise, instead have other people pretend to be you and send bs. Stupid logic.

Whether you are clueless or not, you deserve to get what you paid for. Only in this stupid industry we have people with an attitude like yours "hey this happens all the time, if you don't know you are getting scammed, you deserve to be scammed".

Do you know why "stupid people" are willing to pay $3000 to work with Jay? Because they are fans and see it as an opportunity to work with Jay, just as he advertised. No matter if it happens all the time, it's not ok for someone to advertise a premium personal service and not deliver at all. Just a pure cash grab.

If I or you were doing that, we'd be getting called a scammer, con artist, blasted all over the internet. But becuase Jay is your hero, it's ok.

 

[b-boy]

I usually like what you post but you are 100% wrong. Your logic is that because the customers are newbies or clueless it's ok to not provide (a very expensive) you advertise, instead have other people pretend to be you and send bs. Stupid logic.

Whether you are clueless or not, you deserve to get what you paid for. Only in this stupid industry we have people with an attitude like yours "hey this happens all the time, if you don't know you are getting scammed, you deserve to be scammed".

Do you know why "stupid people" are willing to pay $3000 to work with Jay? Because they are fans and see it as an opportunity to work with Jay, just as he advertised. No matter if it happens all the time, it's not ok for someone to advertise a premium personal service and not deliver at all. Just a pure cash grab.

If I or you were doing that, we'd be getting called a scammer, con artist, blasted all over the internet. But becuase Jay is your hero, it's ok.

 

[Cito33189]

Stone cold use to say don’t trust anybody for a reason!

 

[TheOtherOne55]

I usually like what you post but you are 100% wrong. Your logic is that because the customers are newbies or clueless it's ok to not provide (a very expensive) you advertise, instead have other people pretend to be you and send bs. Stupid logic.

Whether you are clueless or not, you deserve to get what you paid for. Only in this stupid industry we have people with an attitude like yours "hey this happens all the time, if you don't know you are getting scammed, you deserve to be scammed".

Do you know why "stupid people" are willing to pay $3000 to work with Jay? Because they are fans and see it as an opportunity to work with Jay, just as he advertised. No matter if it happens all the time, it's not ok for someone to advertise a premium personal service and not deliver at all. Just a pure cash grab.

If I or you were doing that, we'd be getting called a scammer, con artist, blasted all over the internet. But becuase Jay is your hero, it's ok.

The problem is that we have different definitions of coaching.
What we believe is coaching is very different then what that new guy believes coaching is.

Im not saying they deseeerve it. But if they had the exact same understanding of what coaching is that we do, then they would've known immediately what this was. I would totally understand your viewpoint if there was some sort of PROOF that Jay was false advertising and telling guys they will get weekly check-ins and 1 on 1 consultations...but i havent seen any of that. All ive seen is a guy that most of us dont like (Trigili) saying those things. We've also seen Trigili talk shit on every single coach in the industry AND say the same thing, "stop sending cookie cutter programs."
So why are we suddenly listening to him now? Nick is the judge and jury who says, "it alll looked the same." ??b

Is there more body of evidence that im missing or is this video it? I just have a hard time believing the king of clickbait whose entire job is to stir controversy....

 

[airman]

The problem is that we have different definitions of coaching.
What we believe is coaching is very different then what that new guy believes coaching is.

Im not saying they deseeerve it. But if they had the exact same understanding of what coaching is that we do, then they would've known immediately what this was. I would totally understand your viewpoint if there was some sort of PROOF that Jay was false advertising and telling guys they will get weekly check-ins and 1 on 1 consultations...but i havent seen any of that. All ive seen is a guy that most of us dont like (Trigili) saying those things. We've also seen Trigili talk shit on every single coach in the industry AND say the same thing, "stop sending cookie cutter programs."
So why are we suddenly listening to him now? Nick is the judge and jury who says, "it alll looked the same." ??b

Is there more body of evidence that im missing or is this video it? I just have a hard time believing the king of clickbait whose entire job is to stir controversy....

I don't think you actually saw the video from a month ago. After that video, Jay pulled all the personal coaching stuff and just promotes his Cutler Club... but what everyone is talking about is when he was advertisign to DM him about personal coaching, but instead he had a firm working for him, answering his DMs and offering personal coaching for $3000 for 6 months. Watch the video "Jay" promises everything customized and 1-1 contact throughout the process...

 

[alfresco]

Stone cold use to say don’t trust anybody for a reason!

Pretty harsh but I get it.

But like you said "trust". And I would add "verify".

Buyer beware. Do your homework or in the absence of reliable information,
do not purchase. We all have a responsibility to do our due diligence.

 

[Type-IIx]

The problem is that we have different definitions of coaching.
What we believe is coaching is very different then what that new guy believes coaching is.

Im not saying they deseeerve it. But if they had the exact same understanding of what coaching is that we do, then they would've known immediately what this was. I would totally understand your viewpoint if there was some sort of PROOF that Jay was false advertising and telling guys they will get weekly check-ins and 1 on 1 consultations...but i havent seen any of that. All ive seen is a guy that most of us dont like (Trigili) saying those things. We've also seen Trigili talk shit on every single coach in the industry AND say the same thing, "stop sending cookie cutter programs."
So why are we suddenly listening to him now? Nick is the judge and jury who says, "it alll looked the same." ??b

Is there more body of evidence that im missing or is this video it? I just have a hard time believing the king of clickbait whose entire job is to stir controversy....

Now this argument is fair, but your prior argument/rationale, that scamming is customary and industry-wide, that stooges deserve to pay the price for their stupidity, that was unreasonable.

 

[TheOtherOne55]

I don't think you actually saw the video from a month ago. After that video, Jay pulled all the personal coaching stuff and just promotes his Cutler Club... but what everyone is talking about is when he was advertisign to DM him about personal coaching, but instead he had a firm working for him, answering his DMs and offering personal coaching for $3000 for 6 months. Watch the video "Jay" promises everything customized and 1-1 contact throughout the process...

I mean i guess i understand—even though this video is basically exactly the same as the first one. Nick Trigili saying, "hey this is cookie cutter!"
Thats the extent of this. We might not like it because WE ACTUALLY understand the level of depth a good coach goes to.
Also, his coaching is not meant for us. Remember that. It's not meant for bodybuilders. He is doing transformations challenges...the stuff fitness influencers do. At the same rate that Fitness influencers charge. So to meet our specific BBing coaching expectations aint gonna happen.
I know we wish it were all fair but that's just not how it is. That's why im saying, "this isn't what WE think coaching is."

I guess i understand the overall frustration. But this is bradley martyn, fitness influencer norms. We are just heated because we think it should be BBing coach norms. And even if we dont agree with that....Nick Trigili's JOB is to stir the pot. The web was not flooooded with angry clients. Nick went out of his way to fake pass off as some "i wanna get ripped man" guy and said, "this is my opinion." So the overwhelming amount of evidence we have it Nick and that's about it. I mean i get it. But i kinda dont.

 

[TheOtherOne55]

Now this argument is fair, but your prior argument/rationale, that scamming is customary and industry-wide, that stooges deserve to pay the price for their stupidity, that was unreasonable.

I obviously worded that first response just terrrribly lol So apologies

TO ME, this isn't scaaaammmming. This is fitnesss influencer business. We might not like it or enjoy it because legitimate better info is a Google search away AND real BBing coaches run circles aroudn this—but it is standard. And the price is high because he's Jay Cutler.

If George Clooney starts offering super expensive acting lessons. That's fine.
But we know great acting coaches in LA who for cheaper, give much better more refined info. But THAT is harder to find. And people wnat the allure of Clooney teaching them. So they will pay that price for info (standard to us, NEW and great for them). No one is complaining...his clients arent up in arms. And then suddenly, we have a meddling failed actor whose sole job is to stir said acting pot....and says, "LOOK! Clooney is a crap coach AND he's expensive!" Weird analogy huh? LOL

 

[airman]

I obviously worded that first response just terrrribly lol So apologies

TO ME, this isn't scaaaammmming. This is fitnesss influencer business. We might not like it or enjoy it because legitimate better info is a Google search away AND real BBing coaches run circles aroudn this—but it is standard. And the price is high because he's Jay Cutler.

If George Clooney starts offering super expensive acting lessons. That's fine.
But we know great acting coaches in LA who for cheaper, give much better more refined info. But THAT is harder to find. And people wnat the allure of Clooney teaching them. So they will pay that price for info (standard to us, NEW and great for them). No one is complaining...his clients arent up in arms. And then suddenly, we have a meddling failed actor whose sole job is to stir said acting pot....and says, "LOOK! Clooney is a crap coach AND he's expensive!" Weird analogy huh? LOL

The issue isn't even cookie cutter, man its some random dude answering for Jay, pretending to be Jay. "Are you ready bro"

Jay advertises as 1 on 1 with him, "says so in the DM", and then has nothing to do with it and some company just sends him his cut for pretending to coach.

Doesn't matter if all the influencers do it, its still not right.

I don't like Nick at all, but at least he has the balls to call people out, because no one else would because its Jay Cutler.

Using your analogy of Clooney selling expensive acting lessons, its not that failed actors would complain, its that actors that paid for lessons from Clooney, show up to class to have me there be like "Hi Class I'm George Clooney, I'm here to teach you how to act"

This wouldn't be a scam if Jay said you will work one on one with my approved coaches, and I over see them. But then nobody would buy the service.

 

[Type-IIx]

I obviously worded that first response just terrrribly lol So apologies

TO ME, this isn't scaaaammmming. This is fitnesss influencer business. We might not like it or enjoy it because legitimate better info is a Google search away AND real BBing coaches run circles aroudn this—but it is standard. And the price is high because he's Jay Cutler.

If George Clooney starts offering super expensive acting lessons. That's fine.
But we know great acting coaches in LA who for cheaper, give much better more refined info. But THAT is harder to find. And people wnat the allure of Clooney teaching them. So they will pay that price for info (standard to us, NEW and great for them). No one is complaining...his clients arent up in arms. And then suddenly, we have a meddling failed actor whose sole job is to stir said acting pot....and says, "LOOK! Clooney is a crap coach AND he's expensive!" Weird analogy huh? LOL

Haha no need to apologize to ME bro. To me it's on par with scamming. It's not outright theft, but it is delivery of a sub-standard product at an exorbitant fee. Let's look at the price tag here, even with inflation what it is, $3K for, if true (I doubt this actually, given the untrustworthy detractor here) that he's copy & pasting from muscle mags, there's a difference from your example. Clooney wouldn't get away with charging $3K for this egregious level, if true (doubt it), of basically unjust enrichment. Clooney might be able to make more than Cutler by doing something more legitimate, selling some fundamentals of acting material along with a video discussion to Master Class or what have you (who then resells it ad infinitum at a huge markup). But if Clooney literally changed the title from some "Acting for Dummies" web article and fired it off in an e-mail to a few suckers for $3K a pop, it'd be in the national news.