"keep the muscles guessing" doesn't work ? Yes it does..

[Biggerp73]

You hear a lot that "keep the muscles guessing" is b.s.

And I'm not saying that by constantly rotating exercises work out to workout that you are all the sudden going to get better gains

But it certainly isn't going to hurt

Now for a new trainer who still needs to learn how to properly execute movements, isolate, mind-muscle, etc, sure, stick with one movement and master it

But for us guys with experience, we can rotate exercises from work out to workout

Say I do single arm dumbbell over head skull crushes for triceps today

Then next week I do double arm rope pull downs for triceps

Both weeks ive stimulated growth

It's not like the pecs aren't worked during flys just because last week they were doing inclines


And one potential benefit of rotating exercises is you hit he muscle from slightly different angles with slightly different emphasis, which might allow for a bit extra recovery, and a bit extra growth, rather than always hammering at the exact same angle(s)

 

[TheOtherOne55]

You’re misinterpreting what “keep your muscles guessing” means. No one is saying u cannot rotate exercises or change things. But the idea of “muscle confusion” and you cannot progress unless you constantly change things up is incorrect. You are thinking very black and white right now, there is grey area. Muscle confusion is just a bullshit term mostly used by infomercial scam artists as a way to sell an idea to the lay person that the gym is only interesting when u do diff shit all the time.

The newbie thinks the gym is boring and need to be spoonfed on how to make it feel different and cool and interesting. We know that sticking to basics and learning and progressing over time will alllllways happen, especiallllly when u are a newbie. This is shades of grey. I’m surprised a thread was needed to discuss this.

 

[Biggerp73]

You’re misinterpreting what “keep your muscles guessing” means. No one is saying u cannot rotate exercises or change things. But the idea of “muscle confusion” and you cannot progress unless you constantly change things up is incorrect. You are thinking very black and white right now, there is grey area. Muscle confusion is just a bullshit term mostly used by infomercial scam artists as a way to sell an idea to the lay person that the gym is only interesting when u do diff shit all the time.

The newbie thinks the gym is boring and need to be spoonfed on how to make it feel different and cool and interesting. We know that sticking to basics and learning and progressing over time will alllllways happen, especiallllly when u are a newbie. This is shades of grey. I’m surprised a thread was needed to discuss this.

I mean it depends on what you mean by the phrase of course

If you read my post I said rotating exercises isnt going to magically make you start gaining better

So I think your push back is sort of just saying you didn't really attempt to hear what I was saying


It is extremely popular on social media for the influencers to claim that good coaches and Chad lifters all understand that the best method is just sticking with the same basic exercises every single week for years on end

And that's just b.s.

Sure that approach works

But you also platue pretty quick going that route

And by rotating exercises every work out you get the benefit of hitting every angle without having to overtrain by doing it all in one workout

 

[Biggerp73]

There are a couple of guys on this forum that for whatever reason just don't like me and respond to my posts like I'm saying something just incredibly newbish

Most the time they didn't actually pay attention to what I said and are just reading through the lens of their own bias against me

Sometimes I'm actually speaking directly to a common idea promoted by the big time players at the present moment

Other times maybe I express myself a little wildly, like a couple months ago I talked about how guys who try to "pose" end up being terrible posers, and people jumped on the fact I said they look queer, because of my own past history, as if a person can't have a negative view of things they used to do, and can't have some sense of irony and self deprecation, whatever, but the point was actually obvious: you see guys who try to come up with posing routines, all these ballerina transition movements, artistic poses, etc, but they are trembling, off balance, shaking, cant hold a pose for a few seconds, etc... The best posers are guys who just go up and hold the shots with confidence and aren't trying to eeeek out that last little striation by squeezing as hard as they can but in the process making themselves look unhealthy, insecure, weak, shaking, etc... Just be Kevin Levrone up there and enjoy it..

Another thing.. some of you guys are photo-less and probably don't have a fraction of the muscle I do.. obviously "theotherone" above isn't one of those guys.. but you know who you are..

 

[bbxtreme]

Try rotating exercises every single week, keeping a log book AND ensuring that progressive overload is taking place.

I personally think (as do most top coaches) that you get the most out of picking a training style or set exercises and getting maximum progression out of them. Can you alternate between low and high volume? Sure, listen to your body and maximize and measure what’s working for you.

Bodybuilding is a compounding change game. IMO muscle confusion should be left to the influencers or those who need stimulation and excitement to be in the gym which isn’t most bodybuilders.

It’s a topic for some out there and my take is stick with what works for you. But for me personally I think “muscle confusion” is just a fad to keep unmotivated people motivated. There are better styles for bodybuilders.

And I read your latest post as I was writing this. I like you and have no issue with you or your post. I just try and answer objective with my own experience as @TheOtherOne55 and others do. The open dialogue and opinions is what makes it an open forum.

 

[BIG1512]

I have went to more volume as I have gotten older. So that's exactly what I do. I try to do different exercises and for example if I done preacher machine first last workout I may do it last the next workout. I'm 41 years old and I belive I am progressing still by doing this. I think sometimes we make training way to complicated.

 

[Elvia1023]

Today I went on the leg extension machine and very quickly started doing standing leg curls so I reckon my hamstrings are going to blow up with confusing my muscles like that. Later I started some lying leg curls and quickly changed to confuse my body and started repping some hip thrusts and supersetted some seated calf raises on the machine as well so double confusion and double gains. Next time you are doing some bi-cep curls just drop down and start doing press ups as fast as possible and your chest will blow up.

 

[qbkilla]

I have went to more volume as I have gotten older. So that's exactly what I do. I try to do different exercises and for example if I done preacher machine first last workout I may do it last the next workout. I'm 41 years old and I belive I am progressing still by doing this. I think sometimes we make training way to complicated.

This is exactly the same as me word for word. I also agree with op. I personally believe all these have validity even if some science says otherwise.

Remembering Joe Weider: The Science Of The Weider Principles

The Weider Principles have been venerated, debated, derided, and rediscovered by countless coaches and athletes over the decades. But modern science confirms their value more than ever!

www.bodybuilding.com

I believe Milos, poliqiin, and weider talk about this. I'm not saying it is some secret to growth, not saying getting stronger on key exercises isn't a great way to grow, it certainly is.

But if someone has been eating in a surplus doing things right adding reps to their close grip bench and weighted dips for a year, and they still lag, starting to hit them with pressdowns, skulls, super sets, higher reps sets, etc could very well bring them up and be better than continuing what hasn't been working (adding weight each week to 1-3 exercises).

 

[UnholyAlliance]

I basically don't have a strict training structure per se so each gym session I'll mix things up and not do exercises in any particular order for a body part in a given session.

 

[Brock456]

I like picking set exercises and progressively overloading.

Once I hit a plateau, I’ll swap out exercises.

It’s that “me vs the logbook” mentality

 

[Alzadosghost]

It most definitely works. Look at all the know nothing unoriginal people in the gym you see doing the same cookie cutter exercises the same way day in and day out. They never progress at all. They don’t even look like they train at all.

 

[Alzadosghost]

Variety is the spice of life. The same thing applies to training. When youv been in the gym 20,40 or 40 years you have to reinvent things constantly or you’ll be stuck in a rut and will not progress. Ask the guys that have been at it for decades and they will all agree. And a logbook is not even needed if you have a memory for it all. Simplifying things and not overthinking is a whole other training principle. The chaos theory I call it.

 

[UnholyAlliance]

Variety is the spice of life. The same thing applies to training. When youv been in the gym 20,40 or 40 years you have to reinvent things constantly or you’ll be stuck in a rut and will not progress. Ask the guys that have been at it for decades and they will all agree. And a logbook is not even needed if you have a memory for it all. Simplifying things and not overthinking is a whole other training principle. The chaos theory I call it.

I like that...chaos theory training!

 

[NorwegianMuscle]

I once believed in that theory of "keeping the muscles guessing". After decades of competing and training. I think that theory was to explain how to keep workouts interesting and fun because training can become boring. Training becomes boring eventually when you're doing the same thing over and over. That's why I always watched John Meadows video's and not just him but other videos on different training techniques over the years. It helps keep your training interesting. I literally have dozens of techniques to train the same muscle or muscles. Every time I go to the gym I train different with the same end goal so I keep my training consistent. I love going to the gym because I have fun experimenting with a different technique every time. I'm almost 54 and I still have fun going to the gym because I can't wait to try something different and enjoy my pump.

 

[Biggerp73]

Try rotating exercises every single week, keeping a log book AND ensuring that progressive overload is taking place.

I personally think (as do most top coaches) that you get the most out of picking a training style or set exercises and getting maximum progression out of them. Can you alternate between low and high volume? Sure, listen to your body and maximize and measure what’s working for you.

Bodybuilding is a compounding change game. IMO muscle confusion should be left to the influencers or those who need stimulation and excitement to be in the gym which isn’t most bodybuilders.

It’s a topic for some out there and my take is stick with what works for you. But for me personally I think “muscle confusion” is just a fad to keep unmotivated people motivated. There are better styles for bodybuilders.

And I read your latest post as I was writing this. I like you and have no issue with you or your post. I just try and answer objective with my own experience as @TheOtherOne55 and others do. The open dialogue and opinions is what makes it an open forum.

Thanks

It's difficult to imagine at this stage in the game that I'm going to make significant gains anywhere, in the log book or in terms of total muscle

I'm probably pretty close to maxed out with my strength on every lift (well I tore my bicep recently so movements for my back and bis with elbow flexion are suffering but same difference

I heard someone say once that Jordan Peterson rotated exercises, and I have read Dante say many times that he will stick with one exercise till he platues then move to another, so he seems to be always rotating in a sense

 

[luki7788]

as Ronnie used to say "keep it simple" he very rarely changed his training routine

It's a simple analogy - if you want to be the best F1 driver in the world, will you drive a F1 car for a month, a WRC car for a month, and a truck for another month? Will you drive F1 until you are as good as you can be at it

 

[Eguz22]

Variety is the spice of life. The same thing applies to training. When youv been in the gym 20,40 or 40 years you have to reinvent things constantly or you’ll be stuck in a rut and will not progress. Ask the guys that have been at it for decades and they will all agree. And a logbook is not even needed if you have a memory for it all. Simplifying things and not overthinking is a whole other training principle. The chaos theory I call it.

It is totally different to modify different aspects of training over the years than to change exercises every week just so as not to get bored and confuse the muscle.

In any sport, repetition of training patterns is the key to achieving excellence.

 

[Tomgrass]

I actually enjoy having structured workout and doing the same exercises but with more weight or reps. This confuse body enough.

 

[bbxtreme]

Thanks

It's difficult to imagine at this stage in the game that I'm going to make significant gains anywhere, in the log book or in terms of total muscle

I'm probably pretty close to maxed out with my strength on every lift (well I tore my bicep recently so movements for my back and bis with elbow flexion are suffering but same difference

I heard someone say once that Jordan Peterson rotated exercises, and I have read Dante say many times that he will stick with one exercise till he platues then move to another, so he seems to be always rotating in a sense

Try sticking to and picking exercise selections that work best for your body around injuries etc. and then do a period of higher volume/rep training for a period of 6-12 weeks while progressing each week in weight.

Once that is maxed out then move to a lower volume/rep range style training for a period of 6-12 weeks around exercise that work for you and focus on lagging areas.

I believe it really is that simple and what I’ve seen implemented with top coaches and what I do now. Each phase will humble you after coming out of the other yet will produce tremendous results.

As @luki7788 said- drive the F1 racing car and one is a lambo in this case and the other is a Ferrari. Alternate between the two and it’s all the variation and change you’ll need.

Keep it simple!

 

[Brock456]

Variety is the spice of life. The same thing applies to training. When youv been in the gym 20,40 or 40 years you have to reinvent things constantly or you’ll be stuck in a rut and will not progress. Ask the guys that have been at it for decades and they will all agree. And a logbook is not even needed if you have a memory for it all. Simplifying things and not overthinking is a whole other training principle. The chaos theory I call it.

Gotta disagree bro. The logbook is absolutely necessary. I can look back at 2 weeks, 2 months, even 2 years ago and tell you how many reps I did on what day, etc.

Dorian did it. He was really analytical with it.

And keeping same exercises is the best way to gauge improvement with the logbook.

If you’re constantly switching out exercises, how do you know what’s working and what’s not?