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Melatonin + MK 677

I see there is twisting of peoples words. I am not going to add anything very constructive as I am tired. What I will say is I am loving the combination of MK-677 and Bromocriptine pre bed. Well I dose the MK-677 about 2 hours pre bed as it can interfere with my sleep if dosed too late. The bromocriptine I dose just before bed at 1.25mg for now. The bromo could be replaced with another dopamine agonist such as pramipexole or cabergoline (prami is much better).

As I always state you shouldn't take dopamine agonists lightly and always run them in cycles. However if you are concerned about prolactin levels (perhaps running a nandrolone or high dosed peps) you can really assist MK's gh boosting properties with a DA. Granted higher doses are better but I notice a big difference even with lower doses of DA's. I am having amazing sleep, waking up with severe cts and more muscle fullness by the week using this combination.

Obviously you could add in other supplements/drugs to the equation such as melatonin if you wanted to.
 
Rambo: Mike, with all due respect, I don't want to argue about this again and I think you are undermining my understanding. Let's take a step back. Stimulation (GHRH) and inhibition (somatostatin) of GH release happens at the somatotropes. Did you miss what I posted? Growth Hormone Secretagogues antagonize somatostatinergic activity at the somatotropes. Meaning, they stimulated the somatotropes and stopped somatostatin from doing its thing. This has been documented in several studies, the research I posted is based on 100s of studies related to GH secretagogues. Matter of fact, even when they administered high doses of exogenous somatostatin (SS), the release was only inhibited some and not completely blunted when using peps. Then again, no one should have high levels of somatostatin naturally occurring so it isn't an issue for us.
Mike: Yes, MK-677 does work, in part, through inhibiting somatostatin. There has never been any disagreement there. It was your wording that wasn't making any sense. You just weren't explaining yourself properly. What you said here does make sense.

Rambo: Another part I don't agree with. Sure in patients acremology, any inhibition of somatostatin raises levels of GH. But that's not the case with normal healthy individuals, somatostatin inhibition doesn't mean GH release. Stimulation of the somatotropes does. Just saying inhibit somatostatin further means more GH release is not true, it's also not true to "fully" inhibit it nor would you want to as it has other actions in the body. This is not cut and dry as you know.
Mike: I'm sorry, but I completely disagree with you when you say that inhibiting somatostatin doesn't increase GH levels in healthy individuals. I'm kind of at a loss as to how you even think that when we've seen numerous examples of this happening both in the literature and in the real-world. Aside from the fact that one of somatostatin's main jobs is to stop GH release (which is why it is called somatostatin; "somato" being the prefix for somatotropin, which is growth hormone), we've seen healthy people's GH levels go up when using all kinds of somatostatin inhibitors.

Heck, MK-677 inhibits somatostatin. The researchers clearly point out that somatostatin inhibition is ONE of the mechanisms through which MK-677 increases GH levels...and this is happening in healthy individuals. We also see this in healthy individuals who use acetylcholinesterase inhibitors, such as rivastigmine, donepezil, etc. I posted these studies in the "MK Enhanced" thread. We've also seen it occur in healthy people using melatonin, as melatonin has been clinically proven to increase both GH and IGF-1 levels...and the researchers are nearly positive it is occurring through somatostatin inhibition. We've also seen it occur in healthy individuals using certain types of choline, such as Alpha GPC and CDP choline, both of which produce an immediate increase in GH levels (400%) via somatostatin inhibition when administered through I.V injection. There are many more examples in the literature of all sorts of drugs increasing GH levels in healthy people through somatostatin inhibition.

So, to say that inhibiting somatostatin in healthy individuals does not increase GH levels is just plain wrong. Furthermore, just because MK-677 inhibits somatostatin (which is only one of several ways in which it increases GH levels), it does NOT mean it does so optimally. You have zero evidence to suggest otherwise because that evidence does not exist. As far as I am concerned, unless we see evidence that further inhibition of somatostatin has no affect on GH levels, I don't think its unreasonable to conclude there is a very real possibility that it does...especially being that science has already proven that this is an effective pathway through which to increase GH levels.

Now, you're correct in stating that there may be a limit to this, but how can you possibly conclude that MK-677 inhibits it perfectly--to the point where any further inhibition will be completely ineffective? You can't. That is just a wild guess.

On top of that, and which I pointed out earlier (but which you didn't not respond to) is that melatonin also increases IGFBP-3 levels. IGFBP-3 is an often overlooked, but vitally important factor in determining how much benefit we get from the IGF-1 we produce. This is because IGFBP-3 is responsible for not only increasing IGF-1's active life in the body, but it also acts as a transporter, helping to carry IGF-1 to IGF-1 receptor sites in muscle tissue.

Furthermore, melatonin has been recently shown (in a clinical study; you didn't respond to that either) to cause a lean muscle gain of several pounds, and also cause several pounds of fat loss in just a few months. This study was a big deal in the scientific world because it started to make people think there might be a lot more to melatonin's role in the muscle growth and fat loss process than we originally thought...as these results indicate that something else, aside from the moderate increases in GH, IGF-1, and IGFBP-3, is responsible for these profound results. Melatonin has never been studied in this regard until now...and the results were super impressive. No bodybuilder should be ignoring this...and they shouldn't be blowing it off just to try and win an argument.

Lastly, and of significant importance, is the fact that melatonin has been proven to drastically improve both sleep duration and quality. That one thing right there--all by itself--is VERY likely to lead to greater GH production, as sleep quality is a huge determinant in GH release. It also has a massive effect on the overall growth and recovery process...on multiple levels. Even if this was the ONLY way melatonin improved the growth, fat loss, and recovery, it would be well worth it...and an awesome stacker with MK-677.

Bu the fact is MK-677 does much more than just improve sleep quality. It also does all of the other things I mentioned above. Actually, the more I research this stuff, the more I believe that melatonin is one of, if not the very best compound to stack with MK-677 for overall improvements in recovery and growth...simply because the benefits its provides are so very important for bodybuilders...and it fits perfectly with a bodybuilder's pre-bed MK-677 dose.

I think melatonin is an awesome product to stack with MK-677. It compliments it almost perfectly. The abundance of evidence surrounding all of its benefits makes it basically impossible for anyone to deny its effectiveness for recovery and growth. The fact that it causes basically no side effects and fits perfectly with a before-bed MK dose, is just further icing on the cake.
.....
 
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MK677 increases IGFBP-3 on its own.
Yes...and so does Melatonin. Again, there is zero evidence to show that MK-677 results in optimal IGFBP-3 levels conducive for muscle growth. Basically, your comment is similar to someone saying "well, I am already using 500 mg of testosterone, so why add anymore".


What was the percentage in rise from melatonin?
I am not sure how large of an increase there was,but any increase is better than none.

We need the numbers, without the numbers we wouldn't be able to debunk all the crap supp companies push on us. Crap like 100% increase when GH levels went from 0.1 to 0.2 on a scale of 10 (insignificant in the real scheme of things) using arginine or something lol. This is how supp companies have been ripping people off for years, twisting facts and numbers.
Fuck you motherfucker. What the fuck does this conversation have to do with my supp company? Not a damn thing. Stick to the science or shut-up. I am quoting studies and stating facts and you are taking unwarranted potshots for no reason at all. Insult me like that again, when it is totally out of place, and you'll fucking pay for it, motherfucker.t
You were a rep for Superior for years...and even when people were bitching left and right about not receiving products...or stuff not working, you were right there backing their ass up all the way....when in reality you had no fucking clue if their products contained exactly what was claimed, or what as going on with all the hold-ups..because you didn't own the company. this is NOT an accusation against Superior. It is an accusation against you...because regardless of what was said, you were all over their ass. That was a low blow on your end. I would advise stopping now.

....
 
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I see there is twisting of peoples words. I am not going to add anything very constructive as I am tired. What I will say is I am loving the combination of MK-677 and Bromocriptine pre bed. Well I dose the MK-677 about 2 hours pre bed as it can interfere with my sleep if dosed too late. The bromocriptine I dose just before bed at 1.25mg for now. The bromo could be replaced with another dopamine agonist such as pramipexole or cabergoline (prami is much better).

As I always state you shouldn't take dopamine agonists lightly and always run them in cycles. However if you are concerned about prolactin levels (perhaps running a nandrolone or high dosed peps) you can really assist MK's gh boosting properties with a DA. Granted higher doses are better but I notice a big difference even with lower doses of DA's. I am having amazing sleep, waking up with severe cts and more muscle fullness by the week using this combination.

Obviously you could add in other supplements/drugs to the equation such as melatonin if you wanted to.

Yeah, a DA is ideal to add, as it works through a different mechanism. The only reason I didn't add it to my product is because a good portion of people have side effects from those compounds, even the natural ones like Macuna. However, for those people who don't experience those side effects, it is smart way to go.
 
I see there is twisting of peoples words. I am not going to add anything very constructive as I am tired. What I will say is I am loving the combination of MK-677 and Bromocriptine pre bed. Well I dose the MK-677 about 2 hours pre bed as it can interfere with my sleep if dosed too late. The bromocriptine I dose just before bed at 1.25mg for now. The bromo could be replaced with another dopamine agonist such as pramipexole or cabergoline (prami is much better).

As I always state you shouldn't take dopamine agonists lightly and always run them in cycles. However if you are concerned about prolactin levels (perhaps running a nandrolone or high dosed peps) you can really assist MK's gh boosting properties with a DA. Granted higher doses are better but I notice a big difference even with lower doses of DA's. I am having amazing sleep, waking up with severe cts and more muscle fullness by the week using this combination.

Obviously you could add in other supplements/drugs to the equation such as melatonin if you wanted to.
I'm having great success with MK677 and pramipexole, dose them together nightly. I agree, adding a DA especially if needed for prolactin control is beneficial. I'm not convinced on the whole somatostatin inhibitors, but they are pretty cheap and have other effects so if you want to add them in so be it. It's just some people are starting to think its mandatory which is far from the truth.
 
You're a fucking clown!! You pushed UncleZ, PSL, all types of scammers for years so shut the fuck up. That with superior never happened and people here can vouch. I never even mentioned your supp company. I was talking about the arginine shit. But you're so self conscious you think every conversation is about you. Well it's not. I'm done talking to you. I don't have time to read your long winded meaningless posts with your condescending attitude! You even disrespected BigTex who is 1000% more qualified then you to talk about any of this.

Your Huperzine-A is BS. Your claims are BS. Your products are GMP made? Since when do GMP facilities manufacture illegal drugs?

Your an immature child, take a hike Billy Mays I'm done reading your infomercials.
 
There seems to be a bit of abstract discussion on the effects of melatonin.

We have to bear in mind, melatonin has a very short biological half-life, rated in minutes. Not to mention the epigenetic/environmental disrupting actions posed on melatonin secretion.

Your fruits and vegetables that have been exposed to a few different pesticides have recently been shown to have high a affinity for hMT2 receptors, thus blocking melatonins action (I recently posted this on my Facebook page). Another example of melatonin disrupting factors are stims that create excessive norepinephrine secretion. This will inhibit pineal melatonin secretion via regulator of G-protein signaling 2 (RGS2). Any adenosine-receptor antagonist will blunt melatonins secretion.

Psychological stress exhibits a detrimental role on inhibiting melatonin secretion.


...keep your stressors in life to a minimum, limit over-expression of norepinephrine transporter expression. As well, nighttime light exposure induces norepinephrine transporter expression.

Unless one takes melatonin several times per day, the short duration of the transit rise of IGF1-BP3 will be miniscule.

Incidentally, not everyone responds equally to melatonin. Some individuals it affects them paradoxically.

Moral of the story. I wouldn't count on supplemental melatonin as a adjuvant for pulsatile GH.

Yes, I do use melatonin nightly.
 
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I am not going to get involved in all the drama but I want to say that never happened with Superior. Sure there was a little down time were issues occured near the end. Me and Rambo actually left Superior on bad terms in many ways. But when it come to customer satisfaction I think they were the best out of all the peptide/rc sellers.

The amount of complaints we got compared to the sales were insignificant. Obviously no one wants to get any complaints but if you get 1 complaint for every 100 I love their products you know they are doing good. Whilst me, Rambo or JJ had no ownership I wanted to comment as you make it sound like Superior left on bad terms and scammed loads of guys. I still get pm's from people who wish Superior didn't stop. Plus again I left Superior on bad terms so I am not here to support them.
 
This would be beneficial if used along cjc-dac but alone with mk677 wouldn't yield much result.
 
Thanks for your replies.

I have two questions:

1 - Will IGF-1 levels be substantially higher with DAC+MK than with MK alone?

2 - I'll do blood tests before and after starting MK-677. Besides checking IGF-1, should i also check for something else? Prolactin for example?

Thank you
 
Thanks for your replies.

I have two questions:

1 - Will IGF-1 levels be substantially higher with DAC+MK than with MK alone?

2 - I'll do blood tests before and after starting MK-677. Besides checking IGF-1, should i also check for something else? Prolactin for example?

Thank you

1. Not substantially higher but definitely increased. Although your dose would be a significant factor.

2. Definitely. I would recommend IGF-1 and Prolactin before and during/after. Plus monitor your resting heart rate and blood pressure too.
 
1. Not substantially higher but definitely increased. Although your dose would be a significant factor.

2. Definitely. I would recommend IGF-1 and Prolactin before and during/after. Plus monitor your resting heart rate and blood pressure too.
Highest igf levels we ever saw on GH secretagogues was using MK677 combined with DAC. Dose is definitely a factor from what we saw lol. 10mg a week is where it's at but Gets expensive rather quickly.
 
There seems to be a bit of abstract discussion on the effects of melatonin.

We have to bear in mind, melatonin has a very short biological half-life, rated in minutes. Not to mention the epigenetic/environmental disrupting actions posed on melatonin secretion.

Your fruits and vegetables that have been exposed to a few different pesticides have recently been shown to have high a affinity for hMT2 receptors, thus blocking melatonins action (I recently posted this on my Facebook page). Another example of melatonin disrupting factors are stims that create excessive norepinephrine secretion. This will inhibit pineal melatonin secretion via regulator of G-protein signaling 2 (RGS2). Any adenosine-receptor antagonist will blunt melatonins secretion.

Psychological stress exhibits a detrimental role on inhibiting melatonin secretion.


...keep your stressors in life to a minimum, limit over-expression of norepinephrine transporter expression. As well, nighttime light exposure induces norepinephrine transporter expression.

Unless one takes melatonin several times per day, the short duration of the transit rise of IGF1-BP3 will be miniscule.

Incidentally, not everyone responds equally to melatonin. Some individuals it affects them paradoxically.

Moral of the story. I wouldn't count on supplemental melatonin as a adjuvant for pulsatile GH.

Yes, I do use melatonin nightly.

What I was most impressed with was the impressive effects seen in a recent study showing a muscle gain in the "pounds" range and fat loss in the same range as well. To my knowledge, this was the first study of its kind. As a result, researcher's started to speculate there may be other mechanisms through which melatonin produces these affects, as a 187% increase in GH levels, especially considering the duration of elevation, will not produce those kind of results.

However, it's biggest indirect benefit probably comes from its ability to improve sleep quality, which in itself will increase GH production, but more importantly, this leads to improved recovery and growth via an increased rate of cellular repair. In fact, the regulation of the entire hormonal system is dependent on sleep quality and duration, as less than optimal rest negatively effects just about every hormonal system in the body, which is detrimental to a bodybuilder's recovery and growth in a multitude of ways.

Furthermore, melatonin helps lower cortisol levels, which is a plus for just about every bodybuilder. From what I've seen, almost every bodybuilder has elevated cortisol levels, especially stimulant users.

Regarding melatonin's ability to increase IGFBP-3 levels, using prolonged a release melatonin supplement will help overcome some of the limitations you mentioned in terms of duration of elevation.

In my eyes, all this makes it a great, CHEAP stacker with any GH releasing agent. certainly, stuff like CJC-1295 DAC or potent dopamine elevating agents like Pramipexole will produce higher increases in GH. The problem with CJC-1295 DAC is it is somewhat costly...and prami causes a lot of side effects for a lot of people, especially at optimal dosages for GH release. However, when it comes to cheap, OTC supps, melatonin is great. It's wide range of positive effects on recovery and growth compliments GH releasers very well...for pennies a day.



Melatonin reduces cortisol response to ACTH in humans.
[Article in Spanish]
Campino C1, Valenzuela F, Arteaga E, Torres-Farfán C, Trucco C, Velasco A, Guzmán S, Serón-Ferré M.
Author information
Abstract

BACKGROUND: Melatonin receptors are widely distributed in human tissues but they have not been reported in human adrenal gland.

AIM: To assess if the human adrenal gland expresses melatonin receptors and if melatonin affects cortisol response to ACTH in dexamethasone suppressed volunteers.

MATERIAL AND METHODS: Adrenal glands were obtained from 4 patients undergoing unilateral nephrectomy-adrenalectomy for renal cancer. Expression of mRNA MT1 and MT2 melatonin receptors was measured by Reverse TranscriPtase Polymerase Chain Reaction (RT-PCR). The effect of melatonin on the response to intravenous (i.v.) ACTH was tested (randomized cross-over, double-blind, placebo-controlled trial) in eight young healthy males pretreated with dexamethasone (1 mg) at 23:00 h. On the next day, at 08:00 h, an i.v. line was inserted, at 08:30 h, and after a blood sample, subjects ingested 6 mg melatonin or placebo. At 09:00 h, 1-24 ACTH (Cortrosyn, 1 microg/1.73 m2 body surface area) was injected, drawing samples at 0, 15, 30, 45 and 60 minutes after. Melatonin, cortisol, cortisone, progesterone, aldosterone, DHEA-S, testosterone and prolactin were measured by immunoassay.

RESULTS: The four adrenal glands expressed only MT1 receptor mRNA. Melatonin ingestion reduced the cortisol response to ACTH from 14.6 +/- 1.45 microg/dl at 60 min in the placebo group to 10.8 +/- 1.2 microg/dl in the melatonin group (p < 0.01 mixed model test). It did not affect other steroid hormone levels and abolished the morning physiological decline of prolactin.

CONCLUSIONS: The expression of MT1 melatonin receptor in the human adrenal, and the melatonin reduction of ACTH-stimulated cortisol production suggest a direct melatonin action on the adrenal gland.
PMID: 19301769
 
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You're a fucking clown!!
A clown is a 180 lb man using 1,500 mg of test a week, along with a ton of other shit. LOL. People like you are the reason kids are abusing drugs like crazy these days...because they see 180 lb guys using grams of gear per week when it's completely unnecessary.


You pushed UncleZ, PSL, all types of scammers for years so shut the fuck up.
Really? I worked for ONE UGL...Uncle Z/PSL, which is the same company. It lasted about a year and was roughly 5 years ago. More importantly, as soon as he stopped sending out orders I immediately quit and informed everyone, so no one else would get taken. That's more than most reps do. More lies from Rambo.

That with superior never happened and people here can vouch.
Bullshit. Do you have any idea how many people never got their orders from Superior back when they had their "merchant account" problem (which was bullshit). Tons of people had their orders on hold for weeks and the company refused to reimburse them...and even stopped responding to e-mails? A LOT of people were saying this from all over the boards.

I never even mentioned your supp company. I was talking about the arginine shit. But you're so self conscious you think every conversation is about you. Well it's not.
Don't insult my intelligence. Your inference was as clear as day and someone would have to be blind not to see it.

I'm done talking to you. I don't have time to read your long winded meaningless posts with your condescending attitude! You even disrespected BigTex who is 1000% more qualified then you to talk about any of this.
I never disrespected Big Tex...only you...because you're a fucking sell-out plant. You're the motherfucker I was warned about when I was contacted by TWO people telling me that a "former rep" would be on the boards bashing my company (specifically my MK product) within one day...and the very next day there you were. The last person I thought it would be was you. The sad part about it is that I actually thought you were a friend of mine...but I realized very quickly that wasn't the case because friends don't bash friend's new companies for money/product.

Your Huperzine-A is BS. Your claims are BS. Your products are GMP made? Since when do GMP facilities manufacture illegal drugs?
Illegal drugs? LOL. Would you like to tell me what "illegal" drugs I sell?

Now you are accusing me of lying about my stuff being made in a GMP facilities? All supplement companies must have their products produced in GMP facilities by law. That is why I can sell my stuff at bodybuilding.com, retailers, online distributors, etc. The more you say the more you reveal your real reason for being here. I've noticed that you've attacked literally every single aspect of my company that differentiates it from research/peptide companies. Virtually every advantage I have, you have attacked/undermined in some way---every single one of them, even when all of them are undeniable benefits. How much you getting paid, Rambo?


Your an immature child, take a hike Billy Mays I'm done reading your infomercials.
.....
 
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I am not going to get involved in all the drama but I want to say that never happened with Superior. Sure there was a little down time were issues occured near the end. Me and Rambo actually left Superior on bad terms in many ways. But when it come to customer satisfaction I think they were the best out of all the peptide/rc sellers.

The amount of complaints we got compared to the sales were insignificant. Obviously no one wants to get any complaints but if you get 1 complaint for every 100 I love their products you know they are doing good. Whilst me, Rambo or JJ had no ownership I wanted to comment as you make it sound like Superior left on bad terms and scammed loads of guys. I still get pm's from people who wish Superior didn't stop. Plus again I left Superior on bad terms so I am not here to support them.

Sorry, but I heard from plenty of people who said the exact opposite--guys waiting for WEEKS to get their orders and they still weren't shipped out...and the company was refusing to reimburse their money....and in many cases they weren't even getting a response back to their e-mails. When you see a bunch of people all say the EXACT same thing, it starts to sound pretty believable. There were plenty of people on this board alone, so they know. Sorry, Elvia, but there is no way for you to know how Superior handled itself in all areas, as you weren't associated with running that part of the business. It's actually VERY common for both peptide/research companies and UGL's to do stuff like his when they run into problems.

I used to refer everyone to Superior...and it was MY client who was the first person to tell me that this happened to them. I felt like shit because I referred him...and that was just one of many that I personally knew about.


By the way, I wasn't trying to say Superior left scamming a bunch of guys--not at all. I don't think that was their intention. I know they ran into some problems--got worried--and got out. Whether this had anything to do with why they weren't shipping out orders or returning e-mails at the end there, I couldn't say...but it was happening for a while there...and then they closed down...for their own safety.
 
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Thanks for your replies.

I have two questions:

1 - Will IGF-1 levels be substantially higher with DAC+MK than with MK alone?

2 - I'll do blood tests before and after starting MK-677. Besides checking IGF-1, should i also check for something else? Prolactin for example?

Thank you

If the dose is high enough, I would say the increase is very substantial. The problem is that you will end up paying a LOT of money for those doses. Still, even with like 2 mg/week the increase is pretty significant.
 
Mike post a pic, you don't even lift weights. You are a wannabe trainer on the internet lol. Please bring evidence of your ridiculous claims. If there was a warning issued about me, we can discuss this with mods. But you are making shit up because you are a snake and a liar! Who am I working for? No sponsor here is even selling MK677.
 
Mike you are a piece of shit. Stop quoting me and leave me alone.

A piece of shit is someone who tells lies about others...just like you did in the last post I quoted of yours, which is why you haven't responded to any of the bullshit lies I just called you out on. Your entire post was a lie.

Someone who does stuff like that is what I would call a "piece of shit. You throw out a bunch of unfounded accusations, stir the pot, and then never come back to deal with the aftermath when you get called out...and then do it again in another post. You've done it multiple times now.
 

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