Metformin and Berberine

[lestatgear]

So I recently started Metformin. Blood glucose levels have been high and I’m definitely storing visceral fat and not too much subcutaneous. Figure it’s from 20 years of GH use, pretty much non-stop.

Started with 500 mg Metformin sustained release prior to bed. Ran that for 2 weeks until mild stomach issues subsided. About 3 days ago added 500 mg in the morning.

I ordered Berberine. Going to add 500mg and likely bump up to 1000 mg. Question is when I get to 1,000 mg, if needed and tolerable, should I do 500 at night and in the morning with my Metformin, or do the Berberine say in the afternoon with lunch?

 

[livinlean]

What are your glucose levels at and how high are you running the GH?

 

[lestatgear]

What are your glucose levels at and how high are you running the GH?

Glucose level 112. Been running GH at 2-5 I.U. Per day over last 20’years. Visceral fat has been a gradual buildup. For the past 3 years, GH has been 3.3 I.U. per day.

 

[cage99]

I’m assuming the Metformin didn’t do enough for your blood glucose numbers? That’s why your adding Berberine along side it. Is this correct?

Cage

 

[whacked]

I’m assuming the Metformin didn’t do enough for your blood glucose numbers? That’s why your adding Berberine along side it. Is this correct?

Cage

x2….?

Also - respectfully - why not make some dietary changes perhaps even some TRF as these may likely be more effective (and add cardio if you’re not doing so already)?

 

[Hatchet]

Why counter drugs/compounds with another?
If it were I, I would stop everything ('cept real TRT) and get into great natty+ shape...

 

[OuchThatHurts]

Glucose level 112. Been running GH at 2-5 I.U. Per day over last 20’years. Visceral fat has been a gradual buildup. For the past 3 years, GH has been 3.3 I.U. per day.

Not sure if you addressed this yet but I had similar numbers and I wasn't happy with them either. I take 1000mg MET in the mornings and 1200mg BERB in the PM. My numbers are fine now. Which were similar to what you just described.

The only additional thing I have to offer is to try to get the XR and SR versions—they last longer. Especially for overnight as many sleep and wake up with high glucose numbers. I rarely do. But that's something you can check with your glucometer. Even with my GH, my numbers are good. In fact, I've considered going to all MET and lower or d/c the BERB.

 

[buck]

I tried berberine by itself and with metformin and my numbers didn't change with it's use. So i stick with metformin. The only way to know for sure is to be a human test tube.

 

[OuchThatHurts]

I tried berberine by itself and with metformin and my numbers didn't change with it's use. So i stick with metformin. The only way to know for sure is to be a human test tube.

The only reason I haven't dropped it is because of berb's other potential benefits - specifically the positive effects on lipids. My lipid panel is next week.

 

[fisther69]

I take a 1000mg metformin at night and 1000 berberin in the morning..I did it to control my cholesterol..worked really well, and really fast

 

[Hyperemia]

Swapping Metformin for Berberine, saw my fasted glucose raise considerably (+ 10 to 20). Swapping back to Metformin dropped them back down (obviously). Taking Berberine with Metformin, further dropped my fasted glucose (-10) and brought me back to an acceptable level.

 

[nothuman]

Swapping Metformin for Berberine, saw my fasted glucose raise considerably (+ 10 to 20). Swapping back to Metformin dropped them back down (obviously). Taking Berberine with Metformin, further dropped my fasted glucose (-10) and brought me back to an acceptable level.

Are you sure this wasn't a dose response? I felt like berberine was stronger for me.

 

[whacked]

The other confounder in all of these assessments regarding Berberine’s efficacy is if it’s legit (the supps industry is getting worse IMO), and if cofactors were added to enhance absorption.

 

[SouthernMuscle]

Berberine has poor bioavailability, dihydroberberine is supposed to be much better in this regard

gonna try some cinnulin pf, see if it has any utility

 

[Hyperemia]

Berberine has poor bioavailability, dihydroberberine is supposed to be much better in this regard

gonna try some cinnulin pf, see if it has any utility

Exactly what I’m running.

Are you sure this wasn't a dose response? I felt like berberine was stronger for me.

Possibly.

500mg metformin.
200mg Dihydroberberine ( equivalent to 1000mg Berberine )

 

[SouthernMuscle]

Exactly what I’m running.

Possibly.

500mg metformin.
200mg Dihydroberberine ( equivalent to 1000mg Berberine )

Just picked up some cinnulin pf from swanson, seems like its worth taking though i never see it mentioned here

dose is 500mg per day in the study i read. Got 4 bottles, 150mg/cap, 120 caps per bottle, $54. Seemed reasonable

 

[buck]

The only reason I haven't dropped it is because of berb's other potential benefits - specifically the positive effects on lipids. My lipid panel is next week.

I can understand that. But my worst lipid panel ever for those that think cholesterol is bad, was a total cholesterol of 155 and LDL of 95. Typically over the decades it has been 140ish for a total LDL low 80's and HDL of 42ish. I tend to think cholesterol is over blown for many as it is needed for most every cell in the body and the brain had a large amount. I tried to get mine up for years. But each person should follow what they think is best for them

 

[OuchThatHurts]

I can understand that. But my worst lipid panel ever for those that think cholesterol is bad, was a total cholesterol of 155 and LDL of 95. Typically over the decades it has been 140ish for a total LDL low 80's and HDL of 42ish. I tend to think cholesterol is over blown for many as it is needed for most every cell in the body and the brain had a large amount. I tried to get mine up for years. But each person should follow what they think is best for them

Well sure. Cholesterol is absolutely vital to many processes. Lipo (fat) protein, lipoprotein. It's a protein shrinkwrapped in fats. My personal theory is that it's really the sticky high serum glucose levels in people today that causes these molecules to stick together, clump up, etc and eventually become possibly dangerous.

However, in large, large scale studies, as a whole, people with low LDL and VLDL and higher density lipoproteins do live longer. Fewer clots, emboli, infarctions, etc. But across demographics that whole picture becomes much harder to suss out. So...

But if you've read my posts, you know I'm a numbers guy. I go by the numbers. Many people question the stats and perhaps with good reason because obviously these figures aren't perfect. And we have good reason to question their judgment or even motives at times. But you know I'm responsible for not just my own family but several families. So obviously I can't go rogue on health when people depend on me.

 

[nothuman]

Berberine has poor bioavailability, dihydroberberine is supposed to be much better in this regard

gonna try some cinnulin pf, see if it has any utility

It's supposedly a 5 to 1 ratio, so 200mg dihydroberberine is supposed to be 1000mg berberine. But when I took 1500mg berberine (divided into three doses), it had a more impactful effect than metformin on my AIC, glucose and LDL. I didn't get blood tests on the dihydro so I can't speak for that.

Now, I take Acarbose (lowers insulin) and Empagliflozin (lowers insulin and protects against heart and kidney failure) instead of both. Acarbose is the second most powerful life extension drug after Rapamycin, so that's what I'm sticking to.

 

[buck]

Well sure. Cholesterol is absolutely vital to many processes. Lipo (fat) protein, lipoprotein. It's a protein shrinkwrapped in fats. My personal theory is that it's really the sticky high serum glucose levels in people today that causes these molecules to stick together, clump up, etc and eventually become possibly dangerous.

However, in large, large scale studies, as a whole, people with low LDL and VLDL and higher density lipoproteins do live longer. Fewer clots, emboli, infarctions, etc. But across demographics that whole picture becomes much harder to suss out. So...

But if you've read my posts, you know I'm a numbers guy. I go by the numbers. Many people question the stats and perhaps with good reason because obviously these figures aren't perfect. And we have good reason to question their judgment or even motives at times. But you know I'm responsible for not just my own family but several families. So obviously I can't go rogue on health when people depend on me.

While i would agree that high glucose levels are a leading if not the leading cause for many issues. From my reading it damages the walls of the veins and arteries which in turn leave a surface that is easier for cholesterol to stick to.

I like numbers myself too. emotions don't prove anything. Numbers point towards what is more likely to be true. But many studies have to be looked at to discern what trend's are actually best. The studies i have seen using total cholesterol such as this one with 12.8 million people. Show those with levels over the recommended range lived longer then those in the range the US medical societies say is best. But most of those studies are geared towards heat health and not longevity.