Metformin Question

[devenidas]

Spoken like a true bodybuilder

I dont usually go off even when I do its creatine. Yo Peace out homies.

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[Elvia1023]

there's no reason to come off metformin unless you wish to increase appetite, gain weight, increase work load on pancreas, accelerate aging, lessen protection from cell growth in certain cancers, increase natural levels of B12 and CoQ10. it takes upwards of four days to clear your system:

"Metformin has an elimination half-life of approximately 17.6 hours.
It takes approximately 5.5 x elimination half life's for a medicine to be cleared from your system, therefore it'll be in your system for that long.
So metformin will be in your system for 96.8 hours i.e. 4 days (5.5 x 17.6 hours)"

Regarding the b12 comment this may be interesting for many metformin users...

Increased intake of calcium reverses vitamin B12 malabsorption induced by metformin.

W A Bauman,
S Shaw,
E Jayatilleke,
A M Spungen and
V Herbert

Diabetes Care 2000 Sep; 23(9): 1227-1231. **broken link removed**

OBJECTIVE: Of patients who are prescribed metformin, 10-30% have evidence of reduced vitamin B12 absorption. B12-intrinsic factor complex uptake by ileal cell surface receptors is known to be a process dependent on calcium availability Metformin affects calcium-dependent membrane action. The objective of this study was to determine the magnitude and mechanism of the reduction in serum vitamin B12 after metformin administration. RESEARCH DESIGN AND METHODS: A comparative study design was employed using 2 groups (metformin and control). A total of 21 patients with type 2 diabetes received sulfonylurea therapy; 14 of these 21 patients were switched to metformin. Monthly serum total vitamin B12 measurements and holotranscobalamin (holoTCII) (B12-TCII) were performed. After 3 months of metformin therapy, oral calcium supplementation was administered. RESULTS: Serial serum vitamin B12 determinations revealed a similar decline in vitamin B12 and holoTCII. Oral calcium supplementation reversed the metformin-induced serum holoTCII depression. CONCLUSIONS: Patients receiving metformin have diminished B12 absorption and low serum total vitamin B12 and TCII-B12 levels because of a calcium-dependent ileal membrane antagonism, an effect reversed with supplemental calcium.

 

[goal245]

What measurable benefits are you guys noticing from metformin?


Metformins main mechanism of action is reducing the rate of glucose production by the liver from Gluconeogenisis. In diabetic patients the rate of Glucose production is 3x normal and metformin reduces this by about 1/3. In a healthy individual lowering already normal glucose production can't be doing much.

 

[hurrican3]

You have to use a bank transfer but its secure

https://www.alldaychemist.com/diabetes/bigomet-500mg.html

this place says a precription is needed to by fax or email for precription medication? i never used this place, is this just to cover their azz or you need to do it?

 

[asteelz]

What measurable benefits are you guys noticing from metformin?


Metformins main mechanism of action is reducing the rate of glucose production by the liver from Gluconeogenisis. In diabetic patients the rate of Glucose production is 3x normal and metformin reduces this by about 1/3. In a healthy individual lowering already normal glucose production can't be doing much.

Does a lot more then just lowering glucose. I posted this earlier in the thread.
As far as measurable effects, I've personally seen improvements in the lab work of a large number of individuals, not just bodybuilders, who supplement with metformin. Some effects you can't see are reduced propensity for certain cancers, more mitochondria, etc

https://www.pharmgkb.org/pathway/PA165948566

 

[hurrican3]

Does a lot more then just lowering glucose. I posted this earlier in the thread.
As far as measurable effects, I've personally seen improvements in the lab work of a large number of individuals, not just bodybuilders, who supplement with metformin. Some effects you can't see are reduced propensity for certain cancers, more mitochondria, etc

https://www.pharmgkb.org/pathway/PA165948566

its very big in the life prolonging community and forums.Thats what really caught my attention and made me interested .Some consider it a wonderdrug

 

[heavyhitter]

this place says a precription is needed to by fax or email for precription medication? i never used this place, is this just to cover their azz or you need to do it?

Its just to cover their ass. You wont need one

 

[goal245]

its very big in the life prolonging community and forums.Thats what really caught my attention and made me interested .Some consider it a wonderdrug

I read all the studies etc, looks like a miracle drug on paper but we aren't exactly seeing diabetics who take metformin living longer than people who do not take metformin.

Most of the anti aging benefits of metformin come from down regulation of the IGF1 receptor and an increase in IGF binding gloubin in the blood. Both of these seem counterproductive to bodybuilding.

 

[hurrican3]

I read all the studies etc, looks like a miracle drug on paper but we aren't exactly seeing diabetics who take metformin living longer than people who do not take metformin.

Most of the anti aging benefits of metformin come from down regulation of the IGF1 receptor and an increase in IGF binding gloubin in the blood. Both of these seem counterproductive to bodybuilding.

i mean its been shown the possiblity to lower LDL (bad) cholesterol, lower blood fat levels and reduce the risk of cardiovascular disease. Also could help reduce the chances of developing cancer (which diabetics have a higher chance of getting ).While possibly doing all this, the side effects are minimal, diarrea and nausea.

Yes you are right, i havent seen lifespan increase proven yet. but studies on mice ,mice lifespan was increased by 40% on metformin

with bodybuilding it can help and hurt.You are right for pure muscle growth, it can be counterproductive and stall it a bit imo but with cutting can be helpful

it helps increase insulin senstivity, which decreases with age/ insulin injects and gh injects
it also can help lower fat storage with higher carb meals and such
Also it is known to reduce hunger which can help with dieting

on the neg and anti-muscle building effects.there are 2 huge negatives that i know of. It reduces protein synthesis and also lower free test.which can be somewhat offset with steriod use.

 

[powerof2]

I read all the studies etc, looks like a miracle drug on paper but we aren't exactly seeing diabetics who take metformin living longer than people who do not take metformin.



Most of the anti aging benefits of metformin come from down regulation of the IGF1 receptor and an increase in IGF binding gloubin in the blood. Both of these seem counterproductive to bodybuilding.

Would be interesting to real studies on people like us. On a good amount of shit. Along with gh. My guess it would over power most of negative sides. Over the years I have seen a lot of people saying tgood thing about it. But haven't see anyone saying I can't grow taking it


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[BIG1512]

I'm using ghrp 2 and 6 with gh 3 times a day. Am pre-workout and before bed. I use slin pre workout which is after meal 4. When would I use the metformin? I was thinking meal 1 and meal 3?

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[MR. BMJ]

Anybody using the Glycomet-SR?

Got mine from reliablerx, may go with the regular Met next time.

 

[chainheart]

came across the below study, although i've seen no reduction in hematocrit related to my metformin use.

Diabetes Care. 2012 Apr;35(4):731-7. doi: 10.2337/dc11-1299.

Long-term safety, tolerability, and weight loss associated with metformin in the Diabetes Prevention Program Outcomes Study.
Diabetes Prevention Program Research Group
Collaborators

Author information

Abstract

OBJECTIVE:
Metformin produced weight loss and delayed or prevented diabetes in the Diabetes Prevention Program (DPP). We examined its long-term safety and tolerability along with weight loss, and change in waist circumference during the DPP and its long-term follow-up.

RESEARCH DESIGN AND METHODS:
The randomized double-blind clinical trial of metformin or placebo followed by a 7-8-year open-label extension and analysis of adverse events, tolerability, and the effect of adherence on change in weight and waist circumference.

RESULTS:
No significant safety issues were identified. Gastrointestinal symptoms were more common in metformin than placebo participants and declined over time. During the DPP, average hemoglobin and hematocrit levels were slightly lower in the metformin group than in the placebo group. Decreases in hemoglobin and hematocrit in the metformin group occurred during the first year following randomization, with no further changes observed over time. During the DPP, metformin participants had reduced body weight and waist circumference compared with placebo (weight by 2.06 ± 5.65% vs. 0.02 ± 5.52%, P < 0.001, and waist circumference by 2.13 ± 7.06 cm vs. 0.79 ± 6.54 cm, P < 0.001 in metformin vs. placebo, respectively). The magnitude of weight loss during the 2-year double-blind period was directly related to adherence (P < 0.001). Throughout the unblinded follow-up, weight loss remained significantly greater in the metformin group than in the placebo group (2.0 vs. 0.2%, P < 0.001), and this was related to the degree of continuing metformin adherence (P < 0.001).

CONCLUSIONS:
Metformin used for diabetes prevention is safe and well tolerated. Weight loss is related to adherence to metformin and is durable for at least 10 years of treatment.

 

[goal245]

came across the below study, although i've seen no reduction in hematocrit related to my metformin use.

That's because the metformin most likely lowered hemoglobin and hematocrit in the study indirectly through lowering igf1 and testosterone. If you are on aas it will have not have teh same effect

This is not seen as a positive in the study btw

 

[Stewie]

That's because the metformin most likely lowered hemoglobin and hematocrit in the study indirectly through lowering igf1 and testosterone. If you are on aas it will have not have teh same effect

This is not seen as a positive in the study btw

Or the obese individuals (in-which was the population base) in that study, lost weight reducing their hypoxia episode's.

During episode's of OSA (sleep apnea) this activates hypoxia inducible factors, in turn, stimulates erythropoiesis, thus a rise in hemoglobin and to a lesser degree deoxyhemoglobin.

I had a few Dr's on FB agree with me on this. That abstract article has many individuals believing metformin will miraculously lower their HH. It's about as useless as the grapefruit fallacy.

 

[Synthetik]

All I see from met is that i get an extra vein or two that I don't notnskly see... nothing crazy. Less appetite.

Used it heavy and went off... didn't notice anything negative. It's a mild drug across the board so I wouldn't think much of it.

 

[goal245]

Or the obese individuals (in-which was the population base) in that study, lost weight reducing their hypoxia episode's.

During episode's of OSA (sleep apnea) this activates hypoxia inducible factors, in turn, stimulates erythropoiesis, thus a rise in hemoglobin and to a lesser degree deoxyhemoglobin.

I had a few Dr's on FB agree with me on this. That abstract article has many individuals believing metformin will miraculously lower their HH. It's about as useless as the grapefruit fallacy.

That could definitely be a part of it. Either way I doubt it will have any of this effect on bodybuilders

 

[Stewie]

That could definitely be a part of it. Either way I doubt it will have any of this effect on bodybuilders

You're correct. It won't have any effect on AAS induced erythrocytosis.

If one was to read to full text. Both groups, the obese placebo group and the metformin group, HH decreased during their follow-up period of the individuals that lost weight . With the metformin group, there was a larger population that lost more weight than the placebo group.

So, given the information and based on my hypothesis. Both obese groups showed a reduction of their HH would be correlated with weight loss and not the drug itself. The metformin group outshined the placebo group on weight loss, given that, one could speculate these individuals hypoxia index was less.

We're also discussing obese individuals. These individuals are more than likely hypogonadal, so their testoserone and IGF1 are tanked out. Plus there was female participants. I understand your logic.

 

[chainheart]

"Effect of Metformin Treatment on Lipoprotein Subfractions in Non-Diabetic Patients with Acute Myocardial Infarction: A Glycometabolic Intervention as Adjunct to Primary Coronary Intervention in ST Elevation Myocardial Infarction (GIPS-III) Trial

Abstract
Objective

Metformin affects low density lipoprotein (LDL) and high density (HDL) subfractions in the context of impaired glucose tolerance, but its effects in the setting of acute myocardial infarction (MI) are unknown. We determined whether metformin administration affects lipoprotein subfractions 4 months after ST-segment elevation MI (STEMI). Second, we assessed associations of lipoprotein subfractions with left ventricular ejection fraction (LVEF) and infarct size 4 months after STEMI."


"Conclusion

LDL cholesterol and large LDL particles were decreased during 4 months treatment with metformin started early after MI. Higher small HDL and medium VLDL particle concentrations are associated with favorable LVEF and infarct size."

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4726568/

 

[powerof2]

Anybody using the Glycomet-SR?



Got mine from reliablerx, may go with the regular Met next time.

I'm using 1000mg now. Keeping fasted bg down so far. I take it at night before bed so it won't be peaking when I go to the gym at 5pm when I use slin. Running gh @ 6iu. From what I read it peaks at 6-7 hrs. Not sure how long it is active.


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