Military Great Testing

[Zylog259]

The Navy will start randomly testing SEALs and special warfare troops for steroids - WTOP News

WASHINGTON (AP) — The Navy will begin randomly testing its special operations forces for steroids and other performance-enhancing drugs beginning in November, taking a groundbreaking step that…

wtop.com

I don’t knows about you guys but I’d rather have our special forces enhanced.

 

[AllOkJumpmaster]

I don’t agree with the random testing. But SoF guys should not be enhanced. You are a fucking liability if you are using. Period. If you can’t hang without drugs, you are out. There are 10 guys waiting to take your job that don’t need drugs. Source: 8 years running SoF human performance programs.

 

[qbkilla]

I don’t agree with the random testing. But SoF guys should not be enhanced. You are a fucking liability if you are using. Period. If you can’t hang without drugs, you are out. There are 10 guys waiting to take your job that don’t need drugs. Source: 8 years running SoF human performance programs.

I tend to agree with this. I feel like their goal should be to have the genetic elite, not those who can keep up because they are enhanced. Won't be a popular option here but it is what it is.

 

[Green Miles]

Then what? Dishonorably discharged?
I served as a ranger and believe me, you should not care about what your SF guys do to "get the job done" !!
This is madness!

 

[SouthernMuscle]

I don’t agree with the random testing. But SoF guys should not be enhanced. You are a fucking liability if you are using. Period. If you can’t hang without drugs, you are out. There are 10 guys waiting to take your job that don’t need drugs. Source: 8 years running SoF human performance programs.

Where is the “fucking liability”

 

[AllOkJumpmaster]

Where is the “fucking liability”

You are in an austere environment for an extended period of time without the drugs you have relied on. Also, unnecessary risk. I medevac'd more guys out of Afghanistan for health issues (normally heart / BP / etc) or injuries related to gear, than I did for combat injuries or other DNBI. Also, it can affect decision-making. . Trust me we have this conversation often about whether they should be allowed in the communities or not. That said, gear usage is extremely prevalent in SoF. Usually test, Eq, hgh, deca are common go-to’s plus lots of modafinil. Most of the guys using are not because they need it to perform, they just want to be huge. The irony is that the hypothetical best time to use would be the various selection phases when you are most broken down, that is also the hardest time to get away with it. The current practice is to "look the other way", but that doesn't make it right. My job is to run the human performance program for these guys. I will not disclose which one publically on here, but we have staffs of elite strength and conditioning coaches, performance psychologists, physical therapists, and sports medicine physicians whose sole job is to get the best out of these guys. Drugs just simply are not needed. Guys successfully performed in SoF since Vietnam without them. A SoF soldier requires millions of dollars to train, and lots of time. They cannot be mass-produced and cannot be trained effectively quickly. the potential benefit does not outweigh the risk of losing one f.

 

[buck]

From 9000 people that can be tested, 74 tested high for testosterone out of 2500 test and 3 tested positive for performance enhancing drugs. Sounds like they are doing the same protocol as professional football. I would guess the word will go out saying witch units are going to be tested and the rotation they are on. If so only the dumbest ones will get caught which i would probably support as i am not sure i would want my country to risk it's future on the least smart individual.

 

[SouthernMuscle]

You are in an austere environment for an extended period of time without the drugs you have relied on. Also, unnecessary risk. I medevac'd more guys out of Afghanistan for health issues (normally heart / BP / etc) or injuries related to gear, than I did for combat injuries or other DNBI. Also, it can affect decision-making. . Trust me we have this conversation often about whether they should be allowed in the communities or not. That said, gear usage is extremely prevalent in SoF. Usually test, Eq, hgh, deca are common go-to’s plus lots of modafinil. Most of the guys using are not because they need it to perform, they just want to be huge. The irony is that the hypothetical best time to use would be the various selection phases when you are most broken down, that is also the hardest time to get away with it. The current practice is to "look the other way", but that doesn't make it right. My job is to run the human performance program for these guys. I will not disclose which one publically on here, but we have staffs of elite strength and conditioning coaches, performance psychologists, physical therapists, and sports medicine physicians whose sole job is to get the best out of these guys. Drugs just simply are not needed. Guys successfully performed in SoF since Vietnam without them. A SoF soldier requires millions of dollars to train, and lots of time. They cannot be mass-produced and cannot be trained effectively quickly. the potential benefit does not outweigh the risk of losing one f.

Failing to see where hgh or peptides could affect one’s decision making ability or cause a significant decrease in performance
But
Not my job

 

[Samson250]

In my Midwest city I trained at Golds with the chief of police and the entire gang unit. There was no hiding what the situation was it was simply don’t ask don’t tell. Gang unit were elite monsters but my favorite was the Chief!

I always trained close by to spot him if asked and just never saw training like that. He would be on a last rep and I’d get behind him to spot if he said the word but he would get this look on his face like he was in the field with a perpetrator holding him down and then he fired up the bar off his chest seemingly effortlessly.

So in my personal case I’d say the more juiced up the gang unit the better. They don’t have a list of candidates who want that job or could even do it without enhancement.

The army however I don’t have any experience in to give an argument one way or the other.

 

[AllOkJumpmaster]

The other thing is these guys are not smart about their usage like you guys on this board are. They are not researching, and getting blood work. They are just doing what their senior NCO "bro" is telling them. Not all, but most. Guys will just use whatever. I had one cat in Iraq that was taking epistane for 6 months, no support supps, no PCT plan, nothing. Came to the aid station complaining of abdominal pain. We medevac'd back to CONUS. He was out of the fight. Im not saying everyone is practicing as irresponsibley as that guy was, but its more common than one would think.

 

[AllOkJumpmaster]

In my Midwest city I trained at Golds with the chief of police and the entire gang unit. There was no hiding what the situation was it was simply don’t ask don’t tell. Gang unit were elite monsters but my favorite was the Chief!

I always trained close by to spot him if asked and just never saw training like that. He would be on a last rep and I’d get behind him to spot if he said the word but he would get this look on his face like he was in the field with a perpetrator holding him down and then he fired up the bar off his chest seemingly effortlessly.

So in my personal case I’d say the more juiced up the gang unit the better. They don’t have a list of candidates who want that job or could even do it without enhancement.

The army however I don’t have any experience in to give an argument one way or the other.

I get that point, but Cops to me are the worst. You are going to arrest a guy for using marijuana because it is illegal, but then you are pinning that night? I am not anti-cop at all, I have many friends that are blue. I just fail to see how that doesn't violate their oath.

 

[SouthernMuscle]

I get that point, but Cops to me are the worst. You are going to arrest a guy for using marijuana because it is illegal, but then you are pinning that night? I am not anti-cop at all, I have many friends that are blue. I just fail to see how that doesn't violate their oath.

It’s not that black and white. Whatever word comes down that’s what they act on, most of the time, if there’s a reason.
I remember a buddy of mine had to go all night looking for people riding bikes without lights attached. We do not live in Pleasantville, there is plenty crime, what a waste of manpower and time.

 

[bbxtreme]

Why not just have them use TRT, HGH and peptide therapy under medical supervision. Not my job or department but seems it could enhance their performance.

 

[Samson250]

I get that point, but Cops to me are the worst. You are going to arrest a guy for using marijuana because it is illegal, but then you are pinning that night? I am not anti-cop at all, I have many friends that are blue. I just fail to see how that doesn't violate their oath.

Interesting! Something I hadn’t really thought about.

 

[qbkilla]

Why not just have them use TRT, HGH and peptide therapy under medical supervision. Not my job or department but seems it could enhance their performance.

I'd say what If the guys on trt are in the process of adjusting their dose, then all of a sudden are needed to go somewhere far away without access to their doc for a period of time?

Or say a guy needs trt or medication but has to go undercover, travel to various countries, get through customs without attention, then has to go out in the mountains for an extended period of time, how will he perform without his stuff he relies on?

Save the trouble, have guys doing these missions who are not on AAS, trt, CPAP, medication, and can survive and perform their mission effectively in an environment where they only have the bare minimum, some food, water, etc.

 

[MrWhisper]

Huge fraudulent waste and abuse of funding.

 

[Js118]

Huge fraudulent waste and abuse of funding.

It wouldn’t be the military without fraud, waste and abuse.

 

[MrWhisper]

It wouldn’t be the military without fraud, waste and abuse.

True story!

 

[Performance Based]

I wanted to avoid posting on this however the misinformation and honestly lack of understanding of these organizations lends to opinions not founded on meritorious fact. Several of you here know me and where I served (as far as unit/command).

This is absolutely a step in the right direction - I sincerely agree with @AllOkJumpmaster

If you are with a conventional SEAL, SF, or other troop being enhanced is an utter liability at best. This opinion is multi faceted:

1) Degradation in performance from PEDs in aspects that really matter. For those of you that follow me you have seen my output numbers on a myriad of compounds. The difference between 200 and 300mg on mile time, ruck time, etc is profound. My mile goes from 5:25-5:40 to 6:22-6:28. VO2 max decreases by 17% for me specifically the second I go over 200mg of testosterone. It also seems to interfere with my ability to process lactate. I highlight this as a majority of the information that is prevalent is geared towards "bodybuilders" and gym rats not individuals whose performance actually matters. The number of guys we had running Test, D-Bol and Deca cycles after getting to their troop was countless. Bottom line it interfered with their ability to do their job.

2) There is currently the worlds largest human performance program within Naval Special Warfare (mostly just on the East coast however) - If you need TRT you are put on TRT. Navy SEAL foundation thankfully pays for absolutely everything for active and former individuals coming from NSW. This is two fold, operator longevity and the protection of a national level asset. I was medically discharged in 2013 from my command due to hepatocellular carcinoma which came from the rampant abuse of these compounds and experimental peptides. The amount of money the DOD sunk into me hoping to capitalize on that investment for another decade was profound.

3) "Roid" rage is a thing, period. I don't care who the hell you are but lets be honest here. This is an already highly aggressive group of individuals, having any external influence impacting their ability to dispatch the appropriate amount of violence will purely result in more unnecessary legal proceedings.


Development Group and Delta will not be screened with the same tenacity - due to different factors but their mission set and time in country is completely different. Conventional SOF teams are deploying for 6-8 months right now at a time - not having supplies in country and not being able to maintain your base level of performance is highly dangerous.

@SouthernMuscle To your earlier comment I have some data up on performance degradation of different dosages of HGH. Substantial increase in RHR decreasing HRV not allowing for full neurological recovery.

 

[btails]

I was always under the impression that the air force routinely gave fighter pilots amphetamines? It's different, but not really... whatever it takes for them to do their jobs effectively I'm all for.