Military Great Testing

[rippedyearround]

Very interesting perspectives here.

Purely as thought experiment (I have no military background), it would seem that the most valuable traits would endurance related. Gear doesn't help that (my experience), and it gets worse the higher doses go. Machines should be doing most of the physical work anyway, no?

 

[alfresco]

I was always under the impression that the air force routinely gave fighter pilots amphetamines? It's different, but not really... whatever it takes for them to do their jobs effectively I'm all for.

I believe that to be true during the world wars (all sides did it) . . . I forget the name of it but indeed it was common.

Now. No dice.

 

[btails]

I believe that to be true during the world wars (all sides did it) . . . I forget the name of it but indeed it was common.

Now. No dice.

Interesting, I was not aware. I just remember seeing it in some documentary a few years back. It was about pharmacology in all sorts of competitions.

Can't recall the movie but the fighter pilots were saying they took adderall and musicians were saying they took benzo's and so on and so forth..

 

[Performance Based]

I was always under the impression that the air force routinely gave fighter pilots amphetamines? It's different, but not really... whatever it takes for them to do their jobs effectively I'm all for.

Dextroamphetamine was routinely utilized by everyone and the push to armodafinil occurred a few years back.

 

[Js118]

I believe that to be true during the world wars (all sides did it) . . . I forget the name of it but indeed it was common.

Now. No dice.

Yes, pilots are still given “go pills” I don’t know when the switch was made from amphetamine to modaf, but it was definitely more recent than 9/11

 

[Performance Based]

To reinforce my point here is two different nights of sleep. One is a regular night a bit overtaxed as usual the other is after a day adjusting at an explosive breaching class but not training at all.

Now add GH and high dosages of anabolics on top of that. Ability to properly recover to perform the task at hand disappears.

These decisions are data driven by an organization with an endless budget with millions of points collected and analyzed.

 

[rippedyearround]

To reinforce my point here is two different nights of sleep. One is a regular night a bit overtaxed as usual the other is after a day adjusting at an explosive breaching class but not training at all.

Now add GH and high dosages of anabolics on top of that. Ability to properly recover to perform the task at hand disappears.

These decisions are data driven by an organization with an endless budget with millions of points collected and analyzed.

I'm not sure i follow on this.
Do the graphs include the impact of GH & anabolics? What am I missing?
You have such interesting data (and it corroborates my experience when training for performance in SuperLeague). The low(er) dose approach has always made me a better athlete.
Thank you!

 

[Performance Based]

I'm not sure i follow on this.
Do the graphs include the impact of GH & anabolics? What am I missing?
You have such interesting data (and it corroborates my experience when training for performance in SuperLeague). The low(er) dose approach has always made me a better athlete.
Thank you!

Absolutely and good morning

Two sets of data
47/126
Half Marathon Completed Morning
60 Min Performance Session Afternoon

56/61
12 Hour Explosive Breaching Class Approx 70-75 Charges Initiated

Average RHR + HRV on generic training day (run,swim, ruck + afternoon performance session) - 200 Test + 300EQ
42-44/170-180
Average RHR + HRV on 200 Test + 300 EQ + 2IU of HGH
46-48/140-160
Average RHR + HRV on 200 Test + 300 EQ + 4IU of HGH
54-56/110

I don't have long term data of both the conjunction of HGH + training days. To be frank at this point I only really adjunct instruct once a week on average and in a rare case 2x per week. The increase to RHR + decrease to HRV from the PEDs alone + a training day typically means the next day you are utterly crushed. Hypothesizing on 2IU of GH the other day of instruction I would have most likely been around 65/40.

We have physiological recovery in which case you will not hear an argument from me - low dose test + eq are highly powerful substances to increase athletic output.
But then
Neurological recovery from high taxing events - Overpressure from both breaching + range days, cognitive output from structural work, performance driving, etc. These compounds seem to just push an individuals ability to recover a bit deeper down into the dirt for lack of a better expression.

 

[Samson250]

I believe that to be true during the world wars (all sides did it) . . . I forget the name of it but indeed it was common.

Now. No dice.

Agreed, I don’t know about now

I live near Offutt and remember being told the b-2 Spirit bomber pilots here and in Missouri were taking something for those “there and back” sorties to Iraq in the 90’s.

 

[Bandy0974]

Maybe trying to do decrease the toxic masculinity of our armed forces. God forbid we got strong and aggressive special forces.

 

[Performance Based]

Maybe trying to do decrease the toxic masculinity of our armed forces. God forbid we got strong and aggressive special forces.

That isn’t a legitimate reply nor founded on any type of fact.

Strong and “aggressive” special forces - under no pretense should SF be viewed as aggressive. This encompasses traditional SEALs, SF ODAs, ranger bat etc. These subsets are not doing DAs nor HRs and haven’t been for the past 15 years.

These are organizations which partner with host national and third country nationals to advise and assist primarily in this generation of warfare.

A bunch of 240 pound white guys deploying in a reduced signature environment? To train and advise are the modalities these organizations are utilized.

Gets dangerous when people without a history with these organizations or any understanding of how they actually work form opinions based off of falsehoods.

No disrespect intended sir - that just simply isn’t a relevant view point.

 

[Bandy0974]

None taken. Just different view. Guys putting themselves on the line for the country and just seems we cant cut them a break. Worked 20 years in va hospital and have many friends who are active. Appreciate your service as well.

 

[Performance Based]

None taken. Just different view. Guys putting themselves on the line for the country and just seems we cant cut them a break. Worked 20 years in va hospital and have many friends who are active. Appreciate your service as well.

I hear you - different way of thinking about this. I am not a huge fan of law enforcement, that’s a side conversation for another day but the public and the end of the day needs to be protected from themselves.

The boys need to be protected from themselves as well. The use of gear is utterly rampant - structured organized utilization with literally the top human performance program on the planet is 100% good to go.

How many of the guys run “bodybuilding” cycles due to

1) a lack of readily available data for performance metrics
2) honestly bodybuilders thinking their knowledge base is even remotely relevant and putting for terrible information

Maybe a different way of looking at this? But my wife just made me a bagel and I gotta run haha!

 

[Mufasa123]

That isn’t a legitimate reply nor founded on any type of fact.

Strong and “aggressive” special forces - under no pretense should SF be viewed as aggressive. This encompasses traditional SEALs, SF ODAs, ranger bat etc. These subsets are not doing DAs nor HRs and haven’t been for the past 15 years.

These are organizations which partner with host national and third country nationals to advise and assist primarily in this generation of warfare.

A bunch of 240 pound white guys deploying in a reduced signature environment? To train and advise are the modalities these organizations are utilized.

Gets dangerous when people without a history with these organizations or any understanding of how they actually work form opinions based off of falsehoods.

No disrespect intended sir - that just simply isn’t a relevant view point.

I'm surprised you haven't brought up the height/weight/build of the average SEAL or SF. Kind of a clue right there. The big muscular guys fucking lag and suffer on conditioning (not impossible to excel but mighty uncommon). Excess muscle mass doesn't help at all on most any mission. Strength as a ratio to bodyweight, yes, but that naturally declines as bodyweight increases so therein is the issue firsthand. Hard cardio sucks with extra weight and you already have gear. Very little benefit for additional pita maintenance, risk and need for resupply in the field (ie lost my bottle of test, didn't have pct and was totally crashed for months in the field, low energy and had trouble staying awake - everyone counts in each other and this douche lost his drugs so will underperformed when it matters).

LEO is a totally different story. Not so much conditioning but the nature of their work and duration of exertion/activity when needed. Hands on, restraint, fast duration, close quarters... sure. All of that is infinitely more likely than drawing a pistol. They also have pharmacies, return to their homes daily, etc... Not advocating but just saying environment and demands are vastly different.

 

[GYMnTONIC]

"Give em to the guys going over to Iraq. That $*** would have been over if they had steroids. Cmon, let's go home, we done killed everyone"

 

[NeveReveN]

Where is the “fucking liability”

1. Without the drugs, you lose strength, so if deployed, the user will lose abilities thst the drugs made possible.
2. You’re open to being blackmailed. Black market drugs, dealers, secrets. Not good in such a profession.
3. Depending on the type there can be mental issues. Tren, EQ, even Test can cause psychological problems.

There’s three liabilities.

 

[SouthernMuscle]

1. Without the drugs, you lose strength, so if deployed, the user will lose abilities thst the drugs made possible.
2. You’re open to being blackmailed. Black market drugs, dealers, secrets. Not good in such a profession.
3. Depending on the type there can be mental issues. Tren, EQ, even Test can cause psychological problems.

There’s three liabilities.

We already covered it on saturday with actual explanations

thanks for the drivel


(surprised you didn’t mention anadrol in there)

 

[mbuilder]

The other thing is these guys are not smart about their usage like you guys on this board are. They are not researching, and getting blood work. They are just doing what their senior NCO "bro" is telling them. Not all, but most. Guys will just use whatever. I had one cat in Iraq that was taking epistane for 6 months, no support supps, no PCT plan, nothing. Came to the aid station complaining of abdominal pain. We medevac'd back to CONUS. He was out of the fight. Im not saying everyone is practicing as irresponsibley as that guy was, but its more common than one would think.

There is NOTHING like putting EVERYONE in a group, AKA stereo typing, and speaking on behalf of all SF guys saying they are stupid "not researching" and "getting blood work" is simply foolish, and moreover moronic.
I KNOW and YOU don`t seem to be your motto and I question anything you say from this point on. FYI, YOU do NOT KNOW!!!!

 

[AllOkJumpmaster]

There is NOTHING like putting EVERYONE in a group, AKA stereo typing, and speaking on behalf of all SF guys saying they are stupid "not researching" and "getting blood work" is simply foolish, and moreover moronic.
I KNOW and YOU don`t seem to be your motto and I question anything you say from this point on. FYI, YOU do NOT KNOW!!!!

quality post bro, you know nothing about me. I never said "ALL", and I work with these guys on a daily basis in a human performance capacity. some are really smart about it, others are not. No reason to get a big dick over it.

 

[st114]

I don’t agree with the random testing. But SoF guys should not be enhanced. You are a fucking liability if you are using. Period. If you can’t hang without drugs, you are out. There are 10 guys waiting to take your job that don’t need drugs. Source: 8 years running SoF human performance programs.

I think it depends on what you use. PED use is rampant in SOF units, friends of mine even brought preloaded syringes to SFAS
A lot of my buddies used EQ and Cardarine and were cardio beasts.
But an even bigger epidemic is low test among those in SOF. After years of no sleep, hard training cycles, living in austere conditions, stress, a lot of these guys are bottom of the barrel test wise by the time they reach E7-8.
I think TRT or sports TRT might be a good idea. Bodybuilder doses.. no. We had a few guys fall out on target due to shin and back pumps. One was in a leadership position and it wrecked his career. Another friend had a stroke from taking 2g of EQ for 2 years, no education on supps.
I spent 10 years in SOF btw