Nebivolol to lower RHR

[Bobik]

I take it post-wo just to be sure its serum level is at its lowest when I lift.

I take it before bed

 

[SouthernMuscle]

Nebivolol dropped my RHR, but I struggle to get my heat rate pass 140 (im 35). I Feel like it limits the output of heavy compound movements like squats.

This is in your head

I take 10mg with my preworkout and the only thing limiting my output is my joints

 

[bbxtreme]

Nebivolol dropped my RHR, but I struggle to get my heat rate pass 140 (im 35). I Feel like it limits the output of heavy compound movements like squats.

How much are you taking?

Ideally for cardio you don’t want to go over 130-140BPM IMO.

Usually when someone says they can’t get their heart rate past that it’s the cardio they’re doing. Do the step mill at 6-8 and tell me it doesn’t get up there. Cardio is meant to be challenging.

On lifts- you don’t want fluctuations in blood pressure. This is why breathing through lifts is so critical. Easy way to have a heart attack is to not breath during squats.

 

[SouthernMuscle]

On lifts- you don’t want fluctuations in blood pressure. This is why breathing through lifts is so critical. Easy way to have a heart attack is to not breath during squats.

This is why I take it pre

Feel like I’m more evened out BP wise, which makes my heavier lifts not FEEL so taxing

 

[Doitagain]

This is in your head

I take 10mg with my preworkout and the only thing limiting my output is my joints

It doesn't even lower your heart rate so you're likely not very sensitive to its effects.
Beta blockers in general can affect training and effort to a substantial degree. They inhibit Na(+)-K+ ATPase pumps controlling ion movement between muscle and plasma and thus may contibute to mucle fatigue.
The vasodilation is nice, but can't really say I had my best workouts when I dosed it a few hours before lifting.

 

[SouthernMuscle]

It doesn't even lower your heart rate so you're likely not very sensitive to its effects.
Beta blockers in general can affect training and effort to a substantial degree. They inhibit Na(+)-K+ ATPase pumps controlling ion movement between muscle and plasma and thus may contibute to mucle fatigue.
The vasodilation is nice, but can't really say I had my best workouts when I dosed it a few hours before lifting.

What am I, a scientist? Idk why I like it, just gets me right in the feeels

 

[Doitagain]

What am I, a scientist?

Maybe not, but still the CEO of the Cool Kids Club

 

[SouthernMuscle]

Maybe not, but still the CEO of the Cool Kids Club

 

[tornquad201]

Nebilivol should be the only choice for bodybuilders and athletes IMO for many reasons. It’s cardio selective and cardio protective. Will drop your RHR and BP while helping vascularize the heart.

At your weight it will likely take 5mg, but I’d start at 2.5mg before bed and only use as much as you need.

Highly agree and more specifically, Nebivolol. It’s completely unacceptable to use Metoprolol when Nebivolol exists. Only if someone doesn’t have access to Nebivolol would it make sense to use Metoprolol

over ace or arb’s

 

[bbxtreme]

@tornquad201 what is the question? They are different classes of medications.

If you’re asking to pick one over the other I’d personally pick Nebilivol as it will manage BP, RHR and is cardio protective. This is in the context of a bodybuilder using gear etc.

Telimisartan is always a good place to start as to prevent cardiac remodeling and help manage BP.

 

[tornquad201]

Thank you that’s what I was asking . I have white coat syndrome so it’s always elevated in the doctors office as I start thinking about it 2-3 days before my appointment.

 

[primobolan]

I would suggest starting at 1.25mg

I was doing 2.5mg and my heart rate was getting to low and a few times I got dizzy standing up. For the record I am 240lbs and my GH dose is 6iu.

2.5mg was dropping my heart rate 25+ plus points on average.

 

[whacked]

2.5mg is plenty for me too.

I use pre-w/o supps in the AM too. I know I know. WTH. I wanted to see if I could have my cake and eat it too.

Well. I can - although I admit this is not a great idea.

Still doesn’t get above 110 bpm even while working out whether it’s cardio or weight training.

No sides. Great med.

*FWIW, I also use 40mg Telmisartan

 

[Hyperemia]

Adding Nebivolol (2.5mg at night) has made a large improvement with my RHR. Dropped my RHR by 20. My HRH was slowing ticking upwards over the years and was hanging around 75-80 during light activity. With that I figured it was time to lower it because it’s not an ideal number and it also was affecting my sleep.

Now at night I’m ~50, and moderate activity puts me in the low to mid 60’s. My sleep apnea events have drastically improved as well. So it’s been a great addition for me improving quality of life.

Just for reference my BP has been averaging 115/70, and I also utilize Telmisartin at 40mg/day.

I personally need to do more cardio!!!! I loathe cardio!!!! But I told myself this year I need to improve on this aspect.

Cage

Just Started Nebivolol myself. How long were you taking it before noticing improvement in RHR or BP? Im not sure how long I should stay on a given dose before upping it.

 

[Doitagain]

Just Started Nebivolol myself. How long were you taking it before noticing improvement in RHR or BP? Im not sure how long I should stay on a given dose before upping it.

This is vastly user dependent. You can find people whose HR went down 20 points after their first 2,5mg dose.
Mine is like 8-10 points lower on 5mg pretty much right away, then there're fellas like Southernmuscle whose HR stays the same at 10mg even after months IIRC (I believe he uses it for BP control mostly).

 

[cage99]

Just Started Nebivolol myself. How long were you taking it before noticing improvement in RHR or BP? Im not sure how long I should stay on a given dose before upping it.

Within 5-7 days mine dropped quite a bit. I’ve stayed at the 2.5mg dose since it has me at 60-62 RHR. If I went to 5mg my RHR would be too low.

Cage

 

[whacked]

I got this from Reddit. Thought it would be a valuable add to this thread

———-

Nebivolol – the ultimate antihypertensive drug that all users should consider

# Background

As we know, anabolic hormones alter the renin-angiotensin-aldosterone system causing potential changes in salt balance, water retention, blood volume, then subsequently hypertension, LVH and kidney damage. Aside from this mechanism, anabolic hormones also appear to increase noradrenergic response due to their androgenic signalling.

Coupled with changes in LDL and HDL ratio, not really a pleasant environment for your heart, arteries, circulation.

1. Standard (non selective) beta blockers causes major alterations in insulin sensitivity and lipid mobilisation. Resulting in type 2 diabetes, and therefore fatloss becoming exceedingly diminished.

2. Angiotensin II receptor antagonist and ACE inhibitors lower plasma noradrenaline levels. Not exactly a good thing when you need this to increase for optimal CNS engagement (strength), fat loss, and energy.

I’ve looked in to all these other classes of drugs used to treat hypertension (except diuretics), and they all have side effects that are not exactly ideal. Generally, they don’t target the core issue, in relation to hormone use, this being alterations in the system I mentioned above. Instead they increase Renin and Aldosterone as a compensatory mechanism whilst masking/overriding their effects.

Here comes **Nebivolol**. A **cardioselective beta 1 antagonist**. It is also a **beta 3 agonist**. Amazing. It has profound nitric oxide properties as well. It doesn’t alter exercise tolerance, it actually aids in fat loss, it doesn’t alter plasma noradrenaline levels (it just blocks noradrenaline from acting on the beta 1 receptors in the heart and kidneys); Lowers renin and aldosterone; It reverses LVH; increases glucose and lipid metabolism; **increases total Testosterone by 80-90%**; and many more including reduction in ED… literally void of any side effects (aside from hypotension and minor other things - all dose dependant).

# Studies

“In the nebivolol group, a significant decrease in blood pressures (P < 0.001) and heart rate (P < 0.01) was seen. Nebivolol therapy also suppressed plasma renin and aldosterone concentration (P < 0.02) but increased plasma atrial natriuretic peptide levels (P < 0.03)”

[http://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...ect.com/science/article/pii/016752739290238X)

Angiotensin II receptor antagonist increase Renin and Aldosterone, whilst Nebivolol decreases.

[http://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...ct.com/science/article/pii/S193317111500618X)

“Nebivolol is endowed with peripheral vasodilating properties mediated by the modulation of the endogenous production of nitric oxide. It does not significantly decrease airway conductance compared with atenolol and propranolol. Nebivolol does not compromise the left ventricular function, but it may increase stroke volume, and does not reduce heart inotropism during exertion”

[http://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...ct.com/science/article/pii/S1043661898903875)

“Nebivolol, through β3AR, is able to induce lipolysis and promote thermogenic and mitochondrial genes. The induction of lipolysis and the thermogenic program could explain the reduction of lipid droplets size”

[http://journals.lww.com/jhypertensi...induces,_via__3_adrenergic_receptor,.25.aspx)

**“nebivolol does not alter exercise capacity significantly in healthy volunteers.”**

[https://link.springer.com/article/1...link.springer.com/article/10.1007/BF00051145)

“Our findings in these short-term trials confirm previous reports regarding the neutral effects of nebivolol on lipid profile and carbohydrate metabolism.21,22 Recent data suggest that compared with metoprolol, nebivolol at a comparable dose improved oxidative stress and insulin sensitivity, decreased plasma soluble P-selectin, and increased adiponectin levels in hypertensive patients.”

[http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/...om/doi/10.1111/j.1751-7176.2009.00119.x/full)

“Free fatty acid, free glycerol, plasma catecholamines, beta-endorphines and atrial natriuretic peptide (ANP) increased before and after treatment during maximal and submaximal exercise but remained unaltered by nebivolol treatment”

“nebivolol did not negatively affect lipid and carbohydrate metabolism and substrate flow.”

[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11607802](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11607802)

**“Bisoprolol and nebivolol significantly increased concentration of testosterone (by 82 and 85%, respectively) and prolactin (by 77 and 83%, respectively), lowered levels of estradiol and follicle-stimulating hormone, improved vascular blood flow in penile arteries, and did not worsen sexual function.”**

[http://europepmc.org/abstract/med/18260876](http://europepmc.org/abstract/med/18260876)

“Nebivolol Reverses Endothelial Dysfunction in Essential Hypertension”

[http://circ.ahajournals.org/content...circ.ahajournals.org/content/104/5/511.short)

“Effects of nebivolol on proliferation and apoptosis of human coronary artery smooth muscle and endothelial cells”

[https://academic.oup.com/cardiovasc...up.com/cardiovascres/article/49/2/430/400450)

“Nebivolol: A Novel Beta-Blocker with Nitric Oxide-Induced Vasodilatation”

[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/ar...ww.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1993984/)

“Results of the present study demonstrate an inhibitory effect of nebivolol on several components of the atherosclerotic plaque which contribute to its progression. As compared to the control mice, **the nebivolol-treated animals showed, along with significantly lower plaque size, a decrease in necrotic core size, collagen content, macrophage and T cell density, and activity of matrix metalloproteinases**. In contrast, the drug increased the content of smooth muscle cells in the fibrous cap of the plaque.”

[http://jpp.krakow.pl/journal/archiv...urnal/archive/12_13/articles/08_article.html)

“In hypertensive patients with LVH, nebiviolol, combined with thiazide diuretics, significantly decreased LVMI. Moreover, Nebivolol was able to modify LV geometry from concentric to eccentric. Such effects were significantly higher in patients treated with nebivolol 5 mg/daily than in patients treated with ramipril 2.5 mg/daily. The clinical implication of these results is that the\\ treatment with nebivolol/thiazides in hypertensive patients reduces the cardiovascular risk associated with LVH”

“Both nebivolol and ramipril reduced left ventricular mass and left ventricular mass index, but the effect of nebivolol was significantly higher than ramipril. **Nebivolol was also able to induce a statistically significant change in the left ventricular geometry evaluated by the relative wall thickness, a marker of cardiovascular risk**. “

“**Nebivolol reduces arterial stiffness and central blood pressure** which have a pathogenetic role in promoting left ventricular hypertrophy”

[http://www.europeanreview.org/wp/wp...eanreview.org/wp/wp-content/uploads/1269.pdf)

“Available data suggest that nebivolol has a protective effect on left ventricular function. The drug appears to reduce preload and maintain or decrease afterload. Total peripheral vascular resistance did not increase in any study of nebivolol. Heart rate and left ventricular end-diastolic pressure are decreased, **whereas stroke volume is increased and cardiac output is generally maintained**, notably in patients with heart failure. **Nebivolol reduced left ventricular mass in hypertensive patients with left ventricular hypertrophy.”**

[https://link.springer.com/article/1...com/article/10.2165/00003495-199957040-00011)

# Usage

I personally use 1.25mg per day as a preventative measure in the background. However, dose can be increased depending on how high your blood pressure is.

Bioavailability is low at around \~10%. Sublingual administration have been shown to increase this by 7 fold.

# Synergism

Works in synergy with diuretics as well as NO promoters like Citrulline and PDE5 inhibitors.

# Note

Issues with water retention may not be resolved with any antihypertensives except diuretics. Where water retention is concerned, a thiazide-like diuretic like **Chlortalidone (Chlorthalidone)** can be used. Chlorthalidone also has novel mechanism that sets it apart from other diuretics. A write up will be done on Chlortalidone soon to illustrate how important this particular diuretic is to anabolic steroid users - it will literally reverse LVH and reduce left ventricular mass. Chlortalidone alone will normalise blood pressure to perfect levels for those who have hypertension due to water retention.

 

[VakarianSK]

I got this from Reddit. Thought it would be a valuable add to this thread

———-

Nebivolol – the ultimate antihypertensive drug that all users should consider

# Background

As we know, anabolic hormones alter the renin-angiotensin-aldosterone system causing potential changes in salt balance, water retention, blood volume, then subsequently hypertension, LVH and kidney damage. Aside from this mechanism, anabolic hormones also appear to increase noradrenergic response due to their androgenic signalling.

Coupled with changes in LDL and HDL ratio, not really a pleasant environment for your heart, arteries, circulation.

1. Standard (non selective) beta blockers causes major alterations in insulin sensitivity and lipid mobilisation. Resulting in type 2 diabetes, and therefore fatloss becoming exceedingly diminished.

2. Angiotensin II receptor antagonist and ACE inhibitors lower plasma noradrenaline levels. Not exactly a good thing when you need this to increase for optimal CNS engagement (strength), fat loss, and energy.

I’ve looked in to all these other classes of drugs used to treat hypertension (except diuretics), and they all have side effects that are not exactly ideal. Generally, they don’t target the core issue, in relation to hormone use, this being alterations in the system I mentioned above. Instead they increase Renin and Aldosterone as a compensatory mechanism whilst masking/overriding their effects.

Here comes **Nebivolol**. A **cardioselective beta 1 antagonist**. It is also a **beta 3 agonist**. Amazing. It has profound nitric oxide properties as well. It doesn’t alter exercise tolerance, it actually aids in fat loss, it doesn’t alter plasma noradrenaline levels (it just blocks noradrenaline from acting on the beta 1 receptors in the heart and kidneys); Lowers renin and aldosterone; It reverses LVH; increases glucose and lipid metabolism; **increases total Testosterone by 80-90%**; and many more including reduction in ED… literally void of any side effects (aside from hypotension and minor other things - all dose dependant).

# Studies

“In the nebivolol group, a significant decrease in blood pressures (P < 0.001) and heart rate (P < 0.01) was seen. Nebivolol therapy also suppressed plasma renin and aldosterone concentration (P < 0.02) but increased plasma atrial natriuretic peptide levels (P < 0.03)”

[http://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...ect.com/science/article/pii/016752739290238X)

Angiotensin II receptor antagonist increase Renin and Aldosterone, whilst Nebivolol decreases.

[http://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...ct.com/science/article/pii/S193317111500618X)

“Nebivolol is endowed with peripheral vasodilating properties mediated by the modulation of the endogenous production of nitric oxide. It does not significantly decrease airway conductance compared with atenolol and propranolol. Nebivolol does not compromise the left ventricular function, but it may increase stroke volume, and does not reduce heart inotropism during exertion”

[http://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...ct.com/science/article/pii/S1043661898903875)

“Nebivolol, through β3AR, is able to induce lipolysis and promote thermogenic and mitochondrial genes. The induction of lipolysis and the thermogenic program could explain the reduction of lipid droplets size”

[http://journals.lww.com/jhypertensi...induces,_via__3_adrenergic_receptor,.25.aspx)

**“nebivolol does not alter exercise capacity significantly in healthy volunteers.”**

[https://link.springer.com/article/1...link.springer.com/article/10.1007/BF00051145)

“Our findings in these short-term trials confirm previous reports regarding the neutral effects of nebivolol on lipid profile and carbohydrate metabolism.21,22 Recent data suggest that compared with metoprolol, nebivolol at a comparable dose improved oxidative stress and insulin sensitivity, decreased plasma soluble P-selectin, and increased adiponectin levels in hypertensive patients.”

[http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/...om/doi/10.1111/j.1751-7176.2009.00119.x/full)

“Free fatty acid, free glycerol, plasma catecholamines, beta-endorphines and atrial natriuretic peptide (ANP) increased before and after treatment during maximal and submaximal exercise but remained unaltered by nebivolol treatment”

“nebivolol did not negatively affect lipid and carbohydrate metabolism and substrate flow.”

[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11607802](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11607802)

**“Bisoprolol and nebivolol significantly increased concentration of testosterone (by 82 and 85%, respectively) and prolactin (by 77 and 83%, respectively), lowered levels of estradiol and follicle-stimulating hormone, improved vascular blood flow in penile arteries, and did not worsen sexual function.”**

[http://europepmc.org/abstract/med/18260876](http://europepmc.org/abstract/med/18260876)

“Nebivolol Reverses Endothelial Dysfunction in Essential Hypertension”

[http://circ.ahajournals.org/content...circ.ahajournals.org/content/104/5/511.short)

“Effects of nebivolol on proliferation and apoptosis of human coronary artery smooth muscle and endothelial cells”

[https://academic.oup.com/cardiovasc...up.com/cardiovascres/article/49/2/430/400450)

“Nebivolol: A Novel Beta-Blocker with Nitric Oxide-Induced Vasodilatation”

[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/ar...ww.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1993984/)

“Results of the present study demonstrate an inhibitory effect of nebivolol on several components of the atherosclerotic plaque which contribute to its progression. As compared to the control mice, **the nebivolol-treated animals showed, along with significantly lower plaque size, a decrease in necrotic core size, collagen content, macrophage and T cell density, and activity of matrix metalloproteinases**. In contrast, the drug increased the content of smooth muscle cells in the fibrous cap of the plaque.”

[http://jpp.krakow.pl/journal/archiv...urnal/archive/12_13/articles/08_article.html)

“In hypertensive patients with LVH, nebiviolol, combined with thiazide diuretics, significantly decreased LVMI. Moreover, Nebivolol was able to modify LV geometry from concentric to eccentric. Such effects were significantly higher in patients treated with nebivolol 5 mg/daily than in patients treated with ramipril 2.5 mg/daily. The clinical implication of these results is that the\\ treatment with nebivolol/thiazides in hypertensive patients reduces the cardiovascular risk associated with LVH”

“Both nebivolol and ramipril reduced left ventricular mass and left ventricular mass index, but the effect of nebivolol was significantly higher than ramipril. **Nebivolol was also able to induce a statistically significant change in the left ventricular geometry evaluated by the relative wall thickness, a marker of cardiovascular risk**. “

“**Nebivolol reduces arterial stiffness and central blood pressure** which have a pathogenetic role in promoting left ventricular hypertrophy”

[http://www.europeanreview.org/wp/wp...eanreview.org/wp/wp-content/uploads/1269.pdf)

“Available data suggest that nebivolol has a protective effect on left ventricular function. The drug appears to reduce preload and maintain or decrease afterload. Total peripheral vascular resistance did not increase in any study of nebivolol. Heart rate and left ventricular end-diastolic pressure are decreased, **whereas stroke volume is increased and cardiac output is generally maintained**, notably in patients with heart failure. **Nebivolol reduced left ventricular mass in hypertensive patients with left ventricular hypertrophy.”**

[https://link.springer.com/article/1...com/article/10.2165/00003495-199957040-00011)

# Usage

I personally use 1.25mg per day as a preventative measure in the background. However, dose can be increased depending on how high your blood pressure is.

Bioavailability is low at around \~10%. Sublingual administration have been shown to increase this by 7 fold.

# Synergism

Works in synergy with diuretics as well as NO promoters like Citrulline and PDE5 inhibitors.

# Note

Issues with water retention may not be resolved with any antihypertensives except diuretics. Where water retention is concerned, a thiazide-like diuretic like **Chlortalidone (Chlorthalidone)** can be used. Chlorthalidone also has novel mechanism that sets it apart from other diuretics. A write up will be done on Chlortalidone soon to illustrate how important this particular diuretic is to anabolic steroid users - it will literally reverse LVH and reduce left ventricular mass. Chlortalidone alone will normalise blood pressure to perfect levels for those who have hypertension due to water retention.

Really great information here. I beleive that every bodybuilder or fitness enthusiest should atleast consider taking nebivolol even if it is just as a preventative. I only thing I am not to sure holds a lot of weight here is the claim about a 80%-90% increase in testosterone lol.

 

[Doitagain]

I only thing I am not to sure holds a lot of weight here is the claim about a 80%-90% increase in testosterone lol.

There're actually TWO real studies indexed on Pubmed showing this effect.
Interestingly enough, nobody ever noticed anything in the real world.

 

[VakarianSK]

There're actually TWO real studies indexed on Pubmed showing this effect.
Interestingly enough, nobody ever noticed anything in the real world.

Yeah that's why I just wouldn't put to much weight into that part.